11/8 Check-in Thread « Getting Past Your Past

11/8 Check-in Thread

November 8, 2009 by Susan J. Elliott

New thread! (I know I’m late but I’ve been a bit busy)

As always, if you had posted in the last one and it wasn’t answered, feel free to post here. We don’t want anyone to feel ignored!!

How is everyone doing?

Posted in breakup | 325 Comments

325 Responses

on November 8, 2009 at 5:43 pm | Log in to Reply canali1

i joined a skate skiing organization andl in a few weeks I will be visiting a ski resort with them for a wkend trip that my ex and i were at our first trip together at (4 months into our dating) …lots of great memories and pics… she thought that trip was one of our best (hey often in the beginning they’re our ‘best trips’ as they come with so little baggage, lol, but isn’t that true?….i know it was a sad sad contrast to our ‘trip from hell’ down the oregon coastline just before we busted up…what a sad f***king shame the passive aggressive/closing down behaviours we engaged in….)

anyway…i’m sure just like during my kayak trip a few months ago (on which we the travel down to our camp spot intersected along some bicycling trips my ex and I had done) this trip will bring back fond memories…. it’s going to be very tough if I decide to go…. but i must remember that i can have good experiences with other people, too…that i must continue moving forward seeking such new experiences to ‘unglue’ myself from the past…that said, i have no doubt i’ll be shedding some tears if I do go there with the group…

must keep remembering to not glorify our relationship (easier said that done when trying to untangle, however, isn’t it?)….that those good times were good times but in the past….must keep saying ‘yes’ to new opportunities to meet new people and have new experiences, even when my heart is filled with sorrow.

sheesh…just thinking about it is making me choke up a bit.
- on November 8, 2009 at 6:17 pm | Log in to Reply canali1
  
  so i’m divided…do i just suck it up and go on this trip and work face my sadness head on to overcome it/work through it (but i’m worried my sadness will show in not being as animated or happy as I could be)…or do I take a pass on this one trip given the destination and memories?
  
  …man it’s amazing how rooted and stubborn can be the past…which while no longer real, still has real effects on us….i am just ‘trying to observe’ and let it flow, but it’s tough…doing a bit of recycling I suppose.
  - on November 10, 2009 at 3:52 pm | Log in to Reply George In June
    
    go on the trip – instead of comparing the experience to the previous experiences with your ex, pick another reference point. Compare going on this great trip and meeting new people to staying home, doing nothing at all and meeting no one.
    - on November 10, 2009 at 6:47 pm | Log in to Reply imhopeful
      
      What George said. Unless we move, we are always going to run into memories. Remember, as time passes it does get better. Creating new memories is a great idea.
      - on November 11, 2009 at 4:45 pm | Log in to Reply canali1
        
        thanks everyone…yeah i’ve booked the trip…there will be about 80 other skate skiers there so will be a good time i’m sure…as my grief therapist and some friends have said: use your new experiences at that old haunt to ‘take it back’ on my time…ie here comes the tiger taking his space back…she (grief therapist) shared with me a similar ambivalance she once had when her and her ex of 25 years split (ouch!) ….she went back to Tofino BC with her friends writing her name in the sand to reclaim this space as her own now with new memories that can give her power and happiness.
        
        thanks for your support.
      - on November 11, 2009 at 4:45 pm | Log in to Reply canali1
        
        thanks everyone…yeah i’ve booked the trip…there will be about 80 other skate skiers there so will be a good time i’m sure…
        
        as my grief therapist and some friends have said: use your new experiences at that old haunt to ‘take it back’ on my time…ie here comes the tiger taking his space back…she (grief therapist) shared with me a similar ambivalance she once had when her and her ex of 25 years split (ouch!) ….she went back to Tofino BC with her friends writing her name in the sand to reclaim this space as her own now with new memories that can give her power and happiness.
        
        thanks for your support.
on November 8, 2009 at 6:25 pm | Log in to Reply mphotogirl

Canali….

I would try to go if I were you, you may be very pleasantly surprised at how much fun you do have… And even if there are moments where you get choked up and have some tears, so what…. you are mourning the loss of someone and a relationship. You could always excuse yourself and take some time to regroup….

I think we always try to pretend everything is ok and sometimes it just isn’t. But that shouldn’t stop you from trying something new with a new group of people.

Lately I just notice, I go with things and sometimes I find tears welling in my eyes but it is ok. I find others are very respectful and empathetic if they see it, and that also sometimes opens the door to real communication… even with strangers…
on November 8, 2009 at 6:29 pm | Log in to Reply mphotogirl

Topaz…

So sorry to read about the loss of your buddy and friend. I haven’t posted in a bit, but try to keep reading and see how everyone is doing. When I look at my animals and think about it, I just cry…They do fill our lives with so much joy… don’t they?

I just found out recently about one of the dolphins I loved so very much had died.. just broke my heart.
on November 8, 2009 at 6:32 pm | Log in to Reply mphotogirl

George…

Never did respond to your post to me about seeing the wild dolphins… Isn’t that sooo great!! Consider yourself really lucky, not everyone gets that experience. Makes me believe there is a God..
They are just the most amazing animals.
- on November 9, 2009 at 2:48 am | Log in to Reply George In June
  
  thanks, mphotogirl, I’m glad you saw my post! It was a great experience, I’d like to see them again. But until then, there’s always Duke :)
on November 8, 2009 at 6:48 pm | Log in to Reply kiwival

My counselling sessions are coming to an end (one this Thursday coming, the final in a fortnight), and I will ask the counsellor what groups may be available toi continue the work begun with her.

I have become aware that the short-term counselling has been very helpful with regards to relationship issues, but that there is a basic core of stuff which remains untouched, and has done so over the years – it is this “core” stuff that now screams out to be dealt with …

Wednesday last week, I came “unglued” and fortunately managed to get an appointment with my GP the same morning – he increased the anti-depressant medication and started me on Halcion at night, but the Halcion has been too much for me, I think, and I have reduced it to half an 0.125mg tab, which seems to suit me much better.

The financial fall-out from my relationship with Rae continues, and does not help me with getting my life back on track – however, the doc also got something done about this last Wednesday, as well as the medication, and I am hoping for a bit of an improvement on this front.

So, steps forwards, step backwards – but generally in a forward direction …
- on November 9, 2009 at 3:57 pm | Log in to Reply kiwival
  
  The medication has actually knocked me for a “six” and I am aware of a need to be ever-vigiliant around people who would hook me in to their chaos and dramas – also maybe needing to modify the meds so I am not so “out of it”!
on November 8, 2009 at 7:56 pm | Log in to Reply mphotogirl

I know this is a long post…

Well much to report over the last 2 weeks. The Debbie Ford seminar was really amazing. I have never experienced anything like it. It was 3 days of going inside. We were asked to be in silence for those 3 days. No email, no phone, no computer, no TV, no radio, no alcohol, caffeine, no sugar, no cigarettes, and no sex..Even with yourself…lol….
She wanted us to really get into ourselves without the numbing and the distractions. Well let me just say.. I was in a group of about 125 people and I have never witnessed anything more open, raw and full of human emotion. I think I saw everyone cry, I saw so much hurt and pain and so much beating up on ourselves.

She had us do many processes and there were a couple that were unbelievable and I cannot believe I actually had the courage to go there.
The process is called The Shadow Process and basically we had to confront every aspect of ourselves, as she says “embrace the dark and the light.”

Everything we see in another we have.. everything…. and the more we are plugged in to someone else’s stuff the more we need to look at that within ourselves and learn to love it and see the gift it has to offer us. Because whatever we resist will persist. So instead of trying to get rid of our stuff, learn to embrace it.

One process was to sit in the hot seat ,so to speak… I was in one seat and 3 others were directly facing me, shoulder to shoulder and they had to mirror back to me all the stuff I say to myself that beats me up. Like I am not good enough, I am not worthy… stuff like that. So I had to do it for 20 minutes straight… say all the negative things I say to myself and these other people said it back exactly like I would say it. So I would say, I am not good enough.. They would say … you are not good enough in exactly my tone… over and over… and really it is to show us how ridiculous it is and…. it really takes the buzz off of it.
At first it was really hard but then it started to become almost comical.. How the things we say to ourselves really beat us up.

Everyone had to be in the hot seat and take their turn, but it was amazing to see that basically everyone at their core feels they aren’t worthy of good, or love, or feel that they were flawed somehow.. One woman said over and over.. “I am a pompass asshole” and she needed to hear that back at her to see that she is beating herself up …and really so what… how has being a pompass asshole been a gift… and she discovered ways that it served her…
I hope this makes sense.

We had to do the same exercise with all the good things, the next day was about embracing your light so I had to sit in front of people saying “I am good enough, I do deserve love” and people would mirror that back to me (That was my issue.. others were different) . Interestingly enough more people had a hard time embracing their light than their dark. I saw more tears when people were hearing the good things back to them then the bad.

All day Saturday was the dark.. All day Sunday was the light. So the last process Saturday night was about releasing anger. We had to go into this big room, wear a blindfold and start with 10 minutes of deep meditative breathing and then for 20 minutes we had to scream at the top of our lungs everything that we keep bottled up inside. I heard so much rage and anger and pain and screaming, it was unbelievable.
All I could think was, imagine how much anger is in the world that people carry. If 125 people could shake the house with their screaming and letting it out, imagine the whole world. I didn’t think I was still that angry, but boy did it come out. I almost threw up at a couple of points.

The reason they blindfold you is so you can release and aren’t embarrassed. It was so loud, you couldn’t hear anything legible from anyone else. Then is was 10 minutes of grounding, then blindfolds off and laying on the floor with deep breathing and meditation. All this was with music so people could really get into it. There was a high school homecoming dance next door to us with their loud booty music, and we rocked them out. They probably thought …what is with the crazy screaming adults?

On Sunday we had to do embracing the light and forgiveness exercises. One was sharing with people all the things we want to forgive that others have done to us. I couldn’t believe the stuff people shared, it was very personal and private. That was really intense but the last exercise was about forgiving ourselves.

Sunday night we come back into the room and we are in groups of circles facing each other. The people on the inside circle have blindfolds on and the people on the outside circle don’t. I had to start on the outside circle and had to go up to the person… a stranger.. And whisper in their ear, “I forgive myself for”….. And whatever comes up is what you speak. The person on the inside with the blindfold embraces you and says, “You are completely and utterly forgiven” and then hugs you. Then you move on to the next person, until the circle is complete. Then we switch, I am on the inside with the blindfold and people come up to me and whisper in my ear whatever it is they forgive themselves for. And I then say..”You are completely forgiven.”

There were so many people crying and hugging. It was very intense. And what I found so interesting is that basically everyone wanted to be forgiven for hurting someone else… that was universal… in whatever they did, they felt guilty about hurting someone they loved.

There were many more processes, but I could go on forever. The interesting thing is… every time we came back from a break, we had to sit in a different seat.. So every process was with different people. Everyone there, really opened themselves up and shared.

I don’t remember anyone’s name, but I wonder if one day I am walking down the street and see a face and wonder…. “Did that person share something so personal that even my closest friends and family don’t know?”
It was intense, amazing, scary, sickening, fearful, courageous and very eye opening… I am proud of myself for doing it.
- on November 8, 2009 at 11:31 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
  
  Wow Mphoto, that sounds super intense! I hope it helped you in some way. I agree that you should be proud for trying something new and putting yourself out of your comfort zone. Life is so boring otherwise!
  - on November 9, 2009 at 10:40 am | Log in to Reply mphotogirl
    
    Thanks movingon…
    
    Yes it was very intense. Things still haven’t settled yet. Kinda still stirring around.
    
    And good for you in all the things that are happening for you. Glad to see you stand up for yourself and see your worth. You do deserve more money if you are getting a promotion. Also great to see you are dating again and having fun.
    Good for you!!
- on November 9, 2009 at 2:54 am | Log in to Reply George In June
  
  this does sound very intense. I’ve never heard of anything quite like it. Good for you!
  - on November 9, 2009 at 10:46 am | Log in to Reply mphotogirl
    
    Thanks George…yes very, very intense.. still reeling from it all.
    Hope you are doing well.
on November 8, 2009 at 8:06 pm | Log in to Reply canali1

i’ve heard some interesting things on debbie ford (her sister (forgot her name) has a book out on relationships, too…using guided imagery etc for when seeking a soulmate)….so what did you come away with …and what do you think you’ll be able to practically apply going forward?
- on November 8, 2009 at 8:20 pm | Log in to Reply mphotogirl
  
  Her sister is Arielle Ford… and yes you are right, she writes about relationships.
  
  Truthfully I am not sure yet, what I have come away with. I don’t think everything has integrated into my system yet. If that makes sense. I do see now where I really berate myself and now almost laugh at it. And everytime I look at someone I now think.. wow.. how do you beat yourself up.. or what are you trying to hide? So I think on some level I really get how deep down, we are all the same..so being intimated by others isn’t so strong anymore.
  
  I think now when I look in the mirror.. I somehow really appreciate myself and my worth.. like I never have before. But in terms of my ex.. still there are triggers and he is still my Achilles’s heal, if that makes sense. I don’t think I would ever go there again with someone else.. but with him I can’t say that I am so strong….
on November 8, 2009 at 10:06 pm | Log in to Reply Chrisell

I am in a great big whirling flap, but it’s a great big whirling flap mostly of my own making and having nothing to do with relationships :D

The week before last my school formally let me know that they didn’t have the student numbers (and therefore funds) to pay for my position next year: ie, I was redundant. I already knew this was going to happen but it wasn’t nice to see it in writing.

I was already applying for other jobs – even if I wasn’t made redundant, I’d already decided that the nutter parents at that school weren’t worth the pay! – and by coincidence, the day after I got the letter, I had an appointment with a recruitment company who organise for Aussie teachers to teach in London.

I went to the appointment thinking that I was just going along to see what they’re like, with no intention of actually going. But when I saw how easy they make it and how much better the pay is, I started to think that maybe I could do it. And when I checked my bank balance and realised that I had room there for the flight and the paperwork . . . something snapped and I said “right, that’s it. I’m GOING.” I have been thinking about going to the UK to teach for years, but it’s always been too hard because of my self-doubt and fears and unhealed wounds. But now? I can do it.

The same day, my housemate told me she was moving out. Both of our names are on the lease, but she’s just moved out to a new place, leaving me with the mess of breaking lease. I can’t afford the rent myself, and I can’t easily take on a new housemate since all of the furniture and appliances are mine, and need to be sold / given away before I go to London. So I’m trying to break lease, sell my sellable stuff, pack things into storage tubs to go in Mum’s shed, give away the good furniture and dispose of the crappy stuff. And all in a very short period of time because until this place is re-let I will probably have to pay the full rent, not the half I’ve been paying (since I can’t trust my ex-housemate to do the decent thing and cover her half for the last few weeks).

So . . . for the next few weeks I’m going to be spinning like a top, until I’m safely installed at home (Dad is cheerfully letting me rent my old bedroom at his place until I leave in May – thank goodness for parents!) and this house is re-let. Until then I somehow have to figure out how to eat and sleep properly in the midst of all this chaos. I keep getting into a state where there’s so much to do that I can’t seem to do anything at all. Not healthy, and not helpful. I have a huge assignment that is going to be overdue as of tomorrow, and it’s been on the backburner. I’ve got a day in lieu today so I should be sitting here belting out that assignment as fast as is humanly possible, but I can’t seem to focus.

*whirls, stops, realises she is being ridiculous, shrugs, whirls some more*
- on November 9, 2009 at 5:47 am | Log in to Reply lisaleesa
  
  ditto. i will fail if I don’t hand in an assignment tomorrow and it’s barely half finished. usually i can pull all-nighters, but not since the breakup. i just sit and do nothing.
  - on November 9, 2009 at 7:00 am | Log in to Reply Chrisell
    
    Just remember, handing in something is better than handing in nothing. Forget trying to do your best, forget your own usual work standards: they do not apply when you’re in the throes of grief like that. Just get the thing finished, even if it’s skeletal, and get it off your plate.
    
    Good luck!
    - on November 9, 2009 at 7:32 am | Log in to Reply elles101
      
      I’m kind of in a similar situation Chrisell, getting building work done on my mother’s house that we need to sell (while living there), looking for flats in London, travelling for job interviews… I don’t really know how to get through it apart from remembering to breathe and not drink too much wine! I’ll be settled soon. And finishing off last project for my degree.
      
      That’s brave of you to decide to go to London, I bet you’ll love it, good for you for taking the chance. Have you been there? It’s a great place, full-on but so much to experience.
      - on November 9, 2009 at 8:10 am | Log in to Reply Chrisell
        
        Hi elles,
        
        It’s fun to know that someone else here is moving to London! Keep on breathing, it’ll be done soon :)
        
        I’ve never been there – I’ve never even been out of Australia. The first thing I had to do when I decided to go was apply for a passport! But I have a lot of family in London and scattered around the UK, and my mother was born in England (I get right of abode which makes everything very easy) so I’m sure I’ll manage to make myself at home. And the travel opportunities are irresistible.
        
        on November 9, 2009 at 8:31 am | Log in to Reply greenroses73
        
        Hi girls,
        
        cool stuff about London! :-) For me, that town is connected with my first ever solo travel (at 21, after my engagement ended and we broke up, I went to London for 5 days). I remember grieving (crying in the hotel room sometimes) and laughing a lot as well, I went to 2 musicals and discovered the city on my own. I went to Hyde Park and wrote in my journal, and a guy cycled by, stopped and we had a good chat.
        My hotel was located very much in the center, at Picadilly Circus.
        I have fond memories of that first trip on my own. Over the years, I went back to London numerous times, but I’ll always remember that first time :-)
      - on November 9, 2009 at 8:53 am | Log in to Reply musingmirella
        
        I live in London, I’ve been here for over seven years now very happily – you just have to make sure you prioritise looking after yourself, because the size of the city can get overwhelming and with all the travelling time your me-time can get squeezed out. But it’s an amazing place, and there are so many wonderful things to do and see.
        
        on November 9, 2009 at 1:02 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
        
        Chrisell,
        I absolutely love London! I spent a week there a few years back. I also have some friends out there. If you like dry humor, great people and going out for drinks, you’ll have the time of your life over there.
        
        on November 10, 2009 at 9:51 am | Log in to Reply Chrisell
        
        Thanks guys :) Although Perth is tiny in population compared to London, physically they are about the same size. Perth people have a penchant for big blocks and wide streets! Our city sprawls with its small population over an area only slightly smaller than the area of London that crams so many people into it :D The moral of the story being, I’m used to long commutes lol. It used to take me an hour and a half to get to university from home. I don’t actually mind commuting – it’s my reading and listening to music time!
        
        But I’m also hoping to dodge a long commute – as a primary school teacher I won’t have to work in the CBD, and hopefully I can work things out so that I live only a short way from my workplace.
        
        I love British humour – it’s a lot closer to Australian humour than American humour is, so it’s right up my alley. I’m sure I’ll have a blast :D
on November 8, 2009 at 11:25 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11

I am doing well. A bunch is going on. As I mentioned in a post a week or 2 ago, there were about 100 layoffs at my job, and it was incredibly distressing. Now the air has cleared and it’s all set in.

Early last week, one of the top-dog managers of the company pulled me into his office and said he is very impressed with my work and would like to have me interview for another position within the company. I told him, flat out, that I would be interested in hearing all about it, but I’m not taking another position, let alone a promotion, without a raise. (I have gotten screwed in the past with this, I’m way underpaid, and this is my only chance to use it as leverage.) He said he understands and to meet with the potential future boss anyway.

So I did, at the end of last week, and she is really interested in having me work over there. She offered me the position, informally, on Friday, and I said I’d need to know the terms of the salary before accepting. Her boss is trying to get me more money but didn’t have an answer yet. So I should find out early next week what the deal is.

I feel really proud for standing up for myself and not selling myself short. Either I’ll end up with a cool new job and more money, or I’ll possibly find myself laid off (as my current job may be eliminated). But I’ll know that I put up a good fight, and I can live with that. I’m obviously hoping for the former, but I can accept the latter.

It’s kind of exciting to see how this unfolds :)

Also I’ve been dating a bit, and it’s been fun. There’s a really nice guy I know who’s been in full-on wooing mode; he made me a delicious vegetable risotto last night at a dinner party. He’s a sweetie but I’ve told him upfront that nothing serious will come of this, and he says he understands. I get a touch of a lost vibe and I’ve officially sworn off “project” people. So I guess for now I’m just feeling the situation out and seeing what happens.

In other news, my cat is doing well, though my heart breaks for you Topaz and your loss. I am giving Tiger extra kisses in Sebastian’s honor. If there’s anything I can do for you, please do let me know.

That’s basically it from my end! Spent the day walking around Central Park today. Just gorgeous with all the fall foliage. I dread the winter.
- on November 9, 2009 at 2:59 am | Log in to Reply George In June
  
  Good for you about holding the line on the raise. Its one of the best/most appropriate times to get one, the job change.
  
  Speaking of Central Park, I just saw New York, I Love You. I thought it was really good!
  - on November 9, 2009 at 7:28 am | Log in to Reply elles101
    
    Congrats on standing firm on the payrise, you know your worth so good for you :)
    
    Sounds like you’re doing really well. I like reading about boundaries that people put in place when they are dating (e.g taking it slow, saying nothing may come of it etc.), as it makes me stop and think about my behaviour, this blog is a real learning curve for me.
- on November 9, 2009 at 10:14 am | Log in to Reply genevieve333
  
  I dread winter too!!!
  
  Congrats on how you handled things at the office. I hope it works out well.
  - on November 9, 2009 at 1:11 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
    
    Thanks, all! No word yet on the job but I probably won’t know today. It’s kind of an adrenaline rush, waiting to see what unfolds. Exciting! The important thing is that I know I’ll be fine either way.
    
    Have not seen “New York I Love You” but I definitely plan to. I saw the Paris-themed one and enjoyed that.
    
    Stay away winter. Far away.
  - on November 10, 2009 at 1:13 am | Log in to Reply canali1
    
    c’mon folks:winter rocks: skating, skiing of all types, toboganning, snowshoeing, fondues afterword in a nice hut…woo hoo!
    - on November 10, 2009 at 8:26 am | Log in to Reply greenroses73
      
      Haha, I agree, I love snow (though it does not snow here very often) :) There is something invigorating about cold air (as long as it’s not too cold lol)
      - on November 10, 2009 at 8:45 am | Log in to Reply greenroses73
        
        Particularly the first snow…such a wonderful thing, that stillness etc! So romantic :)
    - on November 13, 2009 at 5:07 am | Log in to Reply teacherjacket
      
      I agree!
on November 8, 2009 at 11:37 pm | Log in to Reply engineer101

Hi All,

I’m new to these boards. I’m a 40 yr old single female who just ended a serious exclusive relationship a week ago. I ended it because I had what someone referred to as “spidey sense” that something wasn’t right & learned it was true. In the last few month things had been fairly tumultuous, with several false reactionary “breakups” (initiated by him) but quick reconciliations. During one of those brief “breakups,” I learned he reached out to someone he dated previously, asked directly if she yet had a boyfriend. While she stated she was available, he then backed off because he had “lingering girlfriend issues.” She then pinged him back again about a month later to see how things are, and that’s where I learned about the communication … The trust was shot on the spot with me, and I told him I had to “cut him loose” because I won’t fight free will.

While the relationship was less than a year long, it still stings badly. I really enjoyed much of my time with this guy, and we had a lot of fun doing many “outdoorsy” things with a sense of humor, which I love. There were things in the relationship I did not like, but I had hope that because we were “in love” we’d push through it. Recently I had begun to wonder if he had some narcissistic tendencies & started doing internet homework on that, if that means anything.

So I’ve been working to understand this pain and figure out how to move forward. I ordered the book, MP3, and have poured over many of the posts. I have really appreciated how open everyone has been, how much of the sharing is right on target. By my screen name & in real life, I’m a “fixer,” and need to learn *something* good from this experience.

Worst, I blew my first week of “no contact” today by inviting him to all things – church. We met there, sat by each other during the service, and got a quick bite to eat. It wasn’t a heart-pounding event, but I have been ruminating on it all day. As a consequence, I’m trying to get in “his head,” put different context around the situation (Did I over-react last week? Are we really broken up? Is he seeing new Miss Thang? What about stories like Harry Met Sally? Can we ever really be friends?). Wasted energy and I feel sick.

On a bigger scale, I’m wondering why this breakup is hitting me so hard. Is there some sort of cumulative effect to failed relationships? Is it a big red flag there that I am friends or on friendly terms with nearly all of my ex’s? I’ve had several good long term relationships that didn’t work out. I don’t retain anger long, and while I always thought that served me well, maybe there is a downside. I dunno.

Thanks for listening.
- on November 9, 2009 at 7:33 pm | Log in to Reply engineer101
  
  I’ve really been stuck on wondering if there REALLY is a cummulative effect to failed relationships? I thought I was learning something new from each failure … I used to take things in much more stride, definitely not get as stuck as I do now. Anybody have the same experience as they get older? If so, what helped turn things for the better?
  - on November 10, 2009 at 11:20 am | Log in to Reply genevieve333
    
    I think the cummulative feeling you are referring to is valid. It’s like it’s hard to believe in the ocean when you’ve never seen anything but the desert.
    
    I used to think I was learning stuff each time too until one day (when I hit the bottom a couple of years ago) I realized I was repeating the same patterns over and over again with different men. Names and faces changed but all of my so called relationships followed essentially the same patterns.
    
    Since this discovery (and recovery?) I haven’t been in a relationship so I can’t tell you how to turn things for the better because I’m not entirely sure yet if I have…
on November 9, 2009 at 2:15 am | Log in to Reply waterandstrength

I’m good and enjoying a wintery day. Wrapped up warm and took myself out for a nice meal. A mixture of positive affirmations, some new and exciting experiences and a load of letting go have worked quite a lot of wonders for me of late. The bananahead still tries to contact me. He wants me back, but no thank you. God bless him.

The only thing that still gripes me is ex-bananahead’s association with someone who frequents the television a lot. I grew up watching them on certain shows.

It annoys the be-jesus out of me that i can’t stop obsessing about this semi-famous person. Anyone that looks like them facially, has a similar haircut – I associate it with them and feel like they’re laughing at me. Like they’re better than me, like their camp ‘won’ in some way now that bananahead and I aren’t together, like their success outweighs, well, me!

It sounds so, so stupid and trivial I know. I’ve tried everything; rubber band on wrist technique, ‘doesn’t matter x 3′ technique, but I still almost SEARCH for anyone who looks or may be associated with this tv personality while out and about, in magazines. As much as I try to let go, I can’t…..it’s annoying.

Does anyone ever have silly things like this? I would love to simply forget about this person associated with my silly ex but I just can’t. Susan or other readers, what do you think?

I guess one way of looking at it all is if that’s the only thing that’s bothering me in life, my life must be pretty darned good at the moment ;-) But it still won’t let me be, perhaps someone can help me out here!
- on November 9, 2009 at 2:54 pm | Log in to Reply freetobelucy
  
  Hi Water,
  
  I totally relate to this! My ex bananahead is a pretty well known musician, and hangs around some pretty famous musicians, (super duper famous, actually). I know exactly what you mean about feeling like the famous camp has ‘won’ or whatever. I totally get that! I too, search out magazine bits or tv shows about these people. I too, have tried a lot of things to steer my attention away from these thoughts.
  
  Here are the things that have helped me:
  
  1. Realizing that I really want some recognition for some of the creative projects that I’m working on, and going towards that. It’s really starting to pay off!
  
  2. Meditation. Focusing on the sort of anxious energy that I get when I’m in ’searching’ mode.
  
  3. Forcing myself to STOP seeking this stuff out when ever possible, and sitting with the super icky and anxious feelings that come as a result.
  
  Hope this helps! You can do it!
  
  *Lucy
  
  3.
on November 9, 2009 at 3:23 am | Log in to Reply canali1

and silly me…what did i do but check her home in the real estate listings page…it’s up for sale…guess her and her new fiancee are looking to move in together somewhere afterall…makes my wanting to visit that ski resort pointless almost…feel so down…when will i learn?
on November 9, 2009 at 7:12 am | Log in to Reply debshealing

Good morning all…I am checking in after beginning to read the grief chapter…just the first few pages…I read a few pages each day to be able to chew and digest this information.

I am 3 months now into “the healing process” after my 3rd husband strangulated me and my life changed. Yes, I am thankful I am alive, though still have physical issues due to the “event.” He is in jail and frankly I hope they keep him in jail for a very long time! And, YES I divorced him and and a legal NO CONTACT order.

During this 3 months which at times seems like it is endless emptiness, I wonder if life is always going to be like THIS…empty, lonely, fearful of getting close to any other men, and distrustful of others. It is difficult to stay “one day at a time” though I am able to do it.

Today I am wondering how do I continue this process of healing? When will I feel settled again? I feel like I am floating with no foundation not knowing who I am or where I fit in. Is all of this “part of the process?”

Thank you for listening!
- on November 9, 2009 at 6:21 pm | Log in to Reply lele4
  
  Deb, your original posting was in “my ex doesn’t miss me”, and some of these answers were posted there. I know you’re new to the site, so I figured you might have lost track of where you’d posted.
  
  I hope some of it helps!
on November 9, 2009 at 9:01 am | Log in to Reply musingmirella

Not doing so well at the moment – two relatives have serious health problems and I responded to the ex when he tried to contact me at a moment when I was really low about everything. It was good to have a conversation with him in that he’s known both people involved for years and he was very supportive and willing to listen to all my feelings about it, had enough emotional maturity to at least shelve the gameplaying bs that he was no doubt calling to engage in because I was in floods of tears and really needed support rather than bs and he managed to step up to the plate – but of course afterwards I was left with a huge ball of grief that was tangled up over him and both people that are ill in one big load of sadness. Back to NC again and trying to deal with all the many feelings and overwhelmedness.

What I need to remember for next time is that whenever I get to about the 10-day NC mark, the ex will make an effort to contact me – this has happened about four times in a row now. If I observe the pattern and prepare myself for it hopefully I will be less likely to fall for it. I have also changed his name on my phone to “[new girl]’s boyfriend” – I tried ‘idiot’ and that kind of thing but it didn’t feel honest because my feelings about him are more mixed than that, but reminding myself whenever he rings that he is in a new relationship, however much he claims to want me back, will I think help me not answer.
on November 9, 2009 at 10:36 am | Log in to Reply genevieve333

Feeling somewhat down about life these past several days (weeks?) I was invited to my HS reunion but have made a pretty firm decision to not go. I can’t imagine going to a sit down dinner dance stag with people I haven’t seen in 20 years. I have to admit, I feel like a failure – essentially every single person I have communicated with from my class is married with children. My longest relationship, to date, was just under 6 months. I’m not some sort of flighty person, deep down all I ever wanted was a commited relationship and a family of my own. But in retrospect I sought these things with people that were broken and incapable in their own ways and for many years I didn’t see how flawed my selection process was. Obviously there were things broken in me, most of all a deep fear of abandonment. Now, I am alone, better at detecting and listening to red flags, but completely alone. Getting a date has become as easy as winning the lottery. I’ve been on one date since June and it was depressing.

If I could live my life over I would not have been so cautious… I wish I knew then what I know now. I feel like I finally have the map to where the treasure is hidden but I’m so late in finding the map that the treasure is gone.
- on November 9, 2009 at 1:13 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
  
  Genevieve,
  The treasure isn’t gone — it’s you! You don’t need marriage or kids or any one thing to make you happy or make your life worth it. Your single friends may now be married, but you have no idea how healthy their relationships are or what goes on behind closed doors. All you know is that they’re married. Just try and remember that marriage is not the holy grail of life — plenty of other things to see and do. I believe when you’re happy being alone, that’s when someone great comes around anyway.
  
  I’m sorry you’re going through a rough time but please do hang in there. I think it’s wonderful that you went to that event (mentioned below) on your own. No reason not to. Live your life and have fun!
  - on November 10, 2009 at 10:46 am | Log in to Reply genevieve333
    
    You always have such a great outlook on things. Thanks for the alternate perspective of the same reality. I like your perspective much more than mine!
on November 9, 2009 at 11:44 am | Log in to Reply trying2understand

Had a crappy weekend. Well not the entire weekend but the being alone part is really starting to get to me. I try to stay busy but have so few friends and family, that it makes trying to stay busy almost impossible. I’ve been NC for over 3 weeks and yesterday I emailed him. Not telling him how I’ve changed, what things I’m working on, not trying to sell myself, but it was dumb nonetheless. He hasn’t responded and I honestly don’t think he will, but it still sucks. Friday night I went out with a friend and told her the entire story, his insecurities, him thinking I never loved him even though he did the dumping, all his second guessing himself about leaving and thinking he made a mistake by doing so, yet “almost never” hearing from him even before I went NC. She said I should contact him before he really thinks I no longer want him. I have no clue. It’s been the most hurtful event in my entire 44+ years of this shitty planet. I’ve buried both parents but this is the academy award of pain. I have the book, a support group, new activities but the weekends suck. I used to love them but now dread them like the plague. He’s been gone over 3 months and I am just about sick of beating myself up when he definitely made some huge mistakes. It’s sad he can’t see that, and maybe he does but would never admit it. Apparently it’s ALL my fault. And he was a great guy, just untrusting and insecure. Probably the wrong dude to get involved with though he wasn’t that way in the beginning. Ugh…. :-(
- on November 9, 2009 at 12:21 pm | Log in to Reply genevieve333
  
  I understand lonliness more than I ever wanted to and I know how painful it is but it’s not a good reason to hold on to something that wasn’t working. Susan always says “be good to you” and a big part of that is choosing things that are good for you.
  
  My weekends haven’t been exciting in a long time. I have friends but they live hundreds of miles away and they are married and so I do spend a lot of time alone.
  But this weekend I did a few thinking outside the box things and I ended up having a really nice weekend. I went to a book signing on Saturday. I never have anyone to go to things like that with so I usually don’t go but Saturday I was like ‘hell, I really want to go… I’m going” And the result… I stood in line for a couple of hours and made conversation with the people around me (also on line.) It was social and nice and such a wonderful surprise to see that the world is not shut to me just because I am alone in the world.
  
  The next day I took my young nephew golfing.. I had never done that before and it was actually a lot of fun. I thought everyone went with foursomes and that if you didn’t have 3 friends it was shut to you… it isn’t. There were lots of people waiting to golf who didn’t seem to be with anyone.
  
  My point is, it’s not easy to be alone but the truth of the matter is we all come into this world alone and we leave it alone. It is our responsibility to seek out what is good in the world and make our own happiness. HOlding onto a troubled ex out of fear is not going to bring you happiness.
on November 9, 2009 at 2:36 pm | Log in to Reply FootballGirl

I’m going through the anger phase. I never thought I’d go through this phase, but I am. I’ve been journaling about it all last week writing down “I’m angry because…”

I went to a charity event on Saturday with an old college roommate and her friend planting a maple tree in a park. It was labor intensive. While I was digging the dirt out hitting the soil hard with my shovel, I decided to let my anger out by cussing him out in my head.

After I got home, I was exhausted physically. While taking a shower, the sadness overwhelmed me and I sat in my bathtub and cried for about 15 minutes. I felt really bad for the rest of the day.

Both Susan in her book and my therapist told me that anger and sadness are two sides of the same coin. It is very true. But I don’t like it that just when I was starting to feel better, I’m feeling crappy again. I guess I’m recycling yet again.

Today, I came across this term “emotional vampires” and looked it up online. Boy, did my ex-bananahead fit the bill to the T. He was narcissistic (bragged about his high IQ and how he’s categorized as a genius), he felt victimized (the world is against him), he was controlling (he didn’t like me having platonic male friends), he was very critical (why I dumped him), and he put me on several emotional roller coaster rides creating so much unnecessary drama (wanted to breakup with me 3 times because of sex [he stopped wanting it and was being passive aggressive], my parents’ separation, and me giving him space when he was withdrawing from me).

I can’t believe I got involved with someone like this. I had been very particular for many years about the type of men I date and want to get involved with. I wouldn’t give my heart away easily. The person whom I thought was the man of my dreams turned out to be the worst person I’ve ever met in my life aside from my own father.

I think my anger/sadness stems from my major disappointment in this person and the relationship I had with him. At the end of the day, no matter how healthy I am and how hard I try, I just cannot build a relationship with someone who is not healthy.
- on November 9, 2009 at 2:41 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
  
  “The person whom I thought was the man of my dreams turned out to be the worst person I’ve ever met in my life aside from my own father.”
  
  Boy do I relate to that. It’s sick, eh? But the good news is we both realize it and will do better going forward.
  
  It sucks that you’re recycling but you’re still in the early stages so I’m not sure it qualifies as “yet again.” There will be plenty more to come, to be honest, so just accept it and it will become less intense. It’s part of the process.
  
  Be good to you!
on November 9, 2009 at 4:02 pm | Log in to Reply FootballGirl

Thanks for the reminder, movingon. I feel I should already be out of it since it’s been 4 months and we were only together for 7 months, but since it was a very intense relationship, the amount of the time we were together really didn’t matter. I’m still going through this devastation and it may take a longer time than the actual relationship to get through it.
on November 9, 2009 at 5:29 pm | Log in to Reply greek80

I’ve been doing pretty crappy. I’ve broken the NC rule a bunch of times recently and have been checking the ex’s facebook page. I also had the flu a few weeks ago & ever since I haven’t fully recovered so it has been very hard to get back into the groove of things at work & with my school work. I totally bombed an exam recently.

Been seeing a new guy who I like, but not sure what the deal is with him. I also have been REALLY missing the ex, and have had some horrible dreams about him recently. I thought I was really getting over him, I dunno what my deal has been lately.

I’ve also been extremely down bc the anniversary of my dad’s passing is next month & its right around my BD and Xmas so it doesn’t hit at the best time. I’m always missing him like crazy, obviously.

I met with my therapist for the first time in 2 months this am and it was great to see her. I balled my eyes out and talked about everything that has been going on. Hopefully tomorrow will be a fresh start for me.
- on November 9, 2009 at 6:09 pm | Log in to Reply elles101
  
  Hello Greek, you’re probably missing him because of everything going on. If you’ve had flu, which then causes you to be worn out… it can be easy to do.
  
  And I think holidays coming up such as Christmas are a trigger, especially because of the anniversary of your dad’s death.
  
  What do you mean by the guy and not being sure what the deal is? Do you think he’s not right? Just take it easy.
  
  I spent the first few weeks in October recycling massively about my ex as it would have been my mother’s birthday after she died this year. And my dad’s birthday the week after. It was pretty awful, I just spent a week bawling, then trying not to.
  
  I have to really work at the moment not to think of him too much, and that includes looking at his facebook etc. I did try, then remembered I’d blocked him and that’s why he’d dis-appeared.
  
  Could you block him? To help you get through this? You’re probably just thinking of him as you grieve other things, keep looking after yourself, and don’t look.
  
  Tomorrow can be a fresh start, you’re just going through a phase with your ex, and if you go back to NC it will pass even more quickly.
  - on November 13, 2009 at 10:26 am | Log in to Reply greek80
    
    Elles101 & lasttoknow & gambit25,
    
    Thank you for your replies. I def think I have been recycling BIG time recently. It all started at the turn of the season, which obviously reminds me of my dad. Everything nowadays reminds me of him, and obviously I have been missing him even more since his anniversary is coming up.
    
    About the new guy. This might sound strange, but I dunno if I could see myself with him long term, but I know for sure I could fall in love with him. He is 4 years younger than me and is a little crazy. By crazy I mean, he is a free spirit and isn’t as grounded and responsible as I am. He is smart & funny and talented at his job, but I am just not sure if I see a future with him. At the moment, I am trying to have fun and not get my emotions too involved. We have been seeing e/o for like a month now. It was very strong in the beginning, and then he got a little weird with me for a week or so, and now things are slowly getting back to the way it was in the beginning. Sounds funny, I know, bc we haven’t been seeing e/o very long. I knew when I first met him that he had recently (he quoted “finally”) ended an on and off 7 yr relationship with a gal my age (he is 25 going on 26, I am 28 going on 29). I think this ex played MAJOR head games with him (in fact I know she did by some of the stories he told me), but to be honest, I think he is still hung up on her. When we had this deep conversation the 2nd night we hung out, I asked him if he still loved her. This guy has been incredibly honest about everything, things I wouldnt even tell someone who I just met. So there was no reason for me to doubt him, and I didn’t get any red flags when he said he wasn’t hung up on her, but as time has passed, I am not beginning to believe he is still hung up on her. Also, why would he reveal that to me, no matter how honest he was about some of the things he disclosed.
    
    Well, I can’t be a hypocrite bc I am still a tad hung up on my ex. I have had no contact with him since the break up 8 mos ago. I deleted him from fb the day we broke up and I blocked him from my email months ago. But, lately I have been having horrible dreams about him, and have just been missing him. When we broke up, I did the pyscho move of making up a fake fb account so I could look at his profile. For the longest time (months) I didnt go on. Lately, I have been checking it here and there. I know I need to stop.
    
    Back to the new guy. So last sat his mom & sis were in town bc he had a big fashion event going on in the city so I was out at a show with friends and he asked me to come by to meet his mom and sis. He had asked me before to come to a gala with his mom and sis, but I declined bc I said I had plans and when he asked the night before to hangout, I declined bc I got the feeling we were doing a little dance for a bit, and my pride said, play the game. yes, I know. So I met his mom & sis and hung out & had a good time. That night his friend was telling me how much he likes me, but I dont see that he is making the same effort as he was in the beginning. All of the cute texts, etc. I don’t know if that is a red flag there already or not. He seems like a very genuine guy, and I am usually pretty good at reading these things, or just having good intuition in general. I just think his mind is elsewhere. Anyway, I just want to be able to have fun, and not read too much into everything, and continue to focus on me and school/work, etc. I don’t want it to be a lot of effort. I just want to enjoy it, and as long as he is respectful, etc then i will just go with the flow. This is easier said than done when there are mixed signals at times. I do know I have been very cold to him at various times bc I think I am just so scared of gettng my emotions involved and getting hurt, etc. I notice when I am like this, he really backs off and then we do “the dance.” I don’t know if this is a reminder of his ex or st. OK, enough of over-analyzing. I just need to have FUN!!!! I know I am in no way ready for a relationship right now anyway. I have so many issues I need to work on first!
    
    -Greek
    - on November 13, 2009 at 12:25 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
      
      Greek,
      it all sounds pretty mixed up to me. It seems as if you wanted to enjoy it but in reality do not really…re. red flags: honesty is important, I agree, but to me, talking about exes on the first dates is already a red flag. No matter how honest. One does not have to be Jack the Ripper to be wrong for you. Now I don’t know the guy and don’t want to “judge” in any way, it’s just that it seems that he could become a source of trouble or complication, from how you write about him. Good that you recognize that you aren’t ready for a relationship at the moment, but sometimes we can drift into one quicker than we thought. So do take care of you and mostly, be honest with yourself.
      - on November 23, 2009 at 3:47 pm | Log in to Reply greek80
        
        greenroses73,
        
        I was actually the one bringing up exs bc I like to get to know about a person, I ask very personal questions right away and we got into a discussion about our most recent exs and other relationships so that to me wasnt really a red flag. It was more so the vibe or gut feeling I got later on as I reazlied neither of us had really mended our broken hearts. The guy and I decided to be friends. I am bummed and will miss talking to him, but I know it is for the best. Both of us have soo much going on in our lives right now, it is just very bad timing on both of our parts. not to mention, I think we are both a little hung up on “what once was” with our exes. It was the chemistry which drew me and and knowing I felt like we could both tell each other anything and neither of us would ever judge the other person. Also he came from a background similar to mine and has been throuhg some hardships so I think I was drawn to him bc of that too. And I think bc he is a little broken like me.
        
        -Greek
        
        on November 23, 2009 at 4:20 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
        
        Hi Greek,
        
        why do you consider yourself “broken”?
- on November 9, 2009 at 7:47 pm | Log in to Reply lasttoknow
  
  greek80 – you MUST de-friend your ex on FB. if you have already, then you MUST block him, thus taking away any inkling to look at his page and see what he’s up to. If you can’t do this, then you’re not really letting yourself heal; you WANT to be stuck. GET UNSTUCK.
  - on November 10, 2009 at 1:30 am | Log in to Reply gambit25
    
    Hey Greek.
    
    Definitely agree with the above posts…
    DOnt look at their profile or even attempt to…
    
    Trust us on this…. it only makes it worse…. I only woke up to that fact after doing it to myself over and over…. for about 2 months on and off…. and each time i thought id get used to it and it wouldnt bother me…..
    but , EACH TIME IT JUST HURT MORE !!!
    
    I think blocking your ex would be the best thing you could do…..
    
    And yeah , the anniversary of a sad time is one of the worst things in the world….
    Its been 1 month exactly since my dad died of a heart attack….. Im also dreading xmas and my birthday !!!
    
    But posting here helps…
    goodluck.
    - on November 13, 2009 at 10:28 am | Log in to Reply greek80
      
      Gambit25,
      
      I wanted to personally send my condolences to you about your father. I am so incredibly sorry. I know exactly what you are going through. I pray you will find peace in your heart. If you ever need to talk about anything regarding your loss, I am here. It will be 2 years this dec that I lost my dad, just a few days before Xmas.
      
      -Greek
on November 9, 2009 at 11:00 pm | Log in to Reply missjojo27

Hi all!!!

What a crazy weekend. On Friday night I went to my first meetup event at a museum, and that was quite interesting. I didn’t meet anyone, but I’m glad I put myself out there.

On Saturday night I went out to dinner with some friends, to a boutique opening (where three of my girlfriends and I bought new fabulous dresses and ditched the outfits we were wearing), and then out dancing. I flirted with a bartender 4 years younger than me, and had an absolute blast!

It was my first time really going out in my city as I’ve spent the last few months retreating to my parent’s house a few hours away.

I did have a few weak moments, but for the most part I am incredibly proud of myself.

What’s even better…I HAVE NO IDEA HOW LONG I’VE BEEN NC because I’ve stopped counting!!! :)
- on November 10, 2009 at 11:06 am | Log in to Reply genevieve333
  
  That’s awesome!
on November 10, 2009 at 1:15 am | Log in to Reply gambit25

ANother night i havent been able to sleep…..uuuurgh !
Think iv been awake all morning and night for the last week and a half……. Tird !!!
What i wouldnt give for a good nights sleep !!!
And its worrying me cause i cant get out of bed most days… thats not a good sign for depression.

Iv been thinking about the whole ex forgiveness thing….
I realised that forgiving her doesnt mean that i forgot or approved what she did to me….
Iv finally realised that it is for ME and that it lets me accept and realise that the way she treated me was terrible but that it wasnt my fault…. it wasnt deserved…. and that it doesnt mean or say anything about me as a person….
I deserve better !!!

One thing that has been bothering me is how i treat her in the future….. do i keep up with what i have been doing (saying a cold “hi” if she comes to greet ) or do i say “hi, how are you…… thats good, enjoy your evening”….???
The therapist seems to think the second option would be better. To just greet but keep it strictly professional….no intimate details or chats about my life , what im up to or anything like that…..
I think i could do that…… But i must be honest…. i am a little worried about bumping into her with a new guy…

Im not in love with her anymor and i dont really care what she gets up to anymor…. but im scared that seeing her “new love” would still hurt or make me feel uneasy somehow. Is this normal ?

Got some really crap news last week….. its gona take anything from 8 months to 2 years to sort out my dads estate and all the legal stuff…. That seems like a lifetime!
I just want eveything to be done already so that i can have one less thing to worry about…… as it is , my stress levels are peaking overload BIGTIME !!!

Really been missing him the last few days…. feels like the ‘longing’ gets stronger every day. I miss his sense of humour the most…. He could always make me laugh with his sarcasm and playing around antics. And just having him around when i needed advice or help or even just knowing that he was their if i needed him……
I am struggling to get used to the silence and “unsafe” and “alone” feeling…. nothing feels right at the moment.

I got his notebook, which i use for work…… its so valuable to me … cause i remember how he used to curse and moan when it used to shut down automatically or when it would take forever to load something…. He always had trouble when it came to electronic stuff. lol
We used to have a good few laughs about it after work when we went for a drink or out to lunch.

Im taking up a bar job this week hopefully…. so that i can get out and “socialise” instead of sitting on my own everyday and evening. Iv also realised that even if i wasnt moving to a new city, id still have to find a new place to stay cause this place is not healthy for me anymore…..there are too many memories here. And the place is too far from all the people i know and want to see. Not to mention that it just doesnt feel like home anymor…. it feels cold and isolating.

Hopefully this week will be quick and i wont have too many depressed days.
Also REALLY hoping that woman i like, is going to call or ask to see me again this week…..
- on November 10, 2009 at 11:03 am | Log in to Reply genevieve333
  
  “Im not in love with her anymor and i dont really care what she gets up to anymor…. but im scared that seeing her “new love” would still hurt or make me feel uneasy somehow. Is this normal ?”
  
  This is ABSOLUTELY normal. This is one of the reasons why NC is so important. I think the reason why it hurts so much to see someone you used to love with someone new is that it makes you feel bad about yourself all over again… like “what was wrong with me?”
  
  I had an ex randomly contact me once.. I didn’t reply but I made the unfortunate mistake of googling him. I figured that he must have broken up with the girl he dumped me for a couple of years earlier – why else would he suddenly be contacting me? After a bit of digging I discovered his wedding pictures online. It was TOTALLY jarring on so many levels and I wished immediately that I hadn’t seen him in those pictures… that I hadn’t googled him… it was horrible. And this was years after I had last seen him and I was well over him. On some level.. some distant level… I felt badly that he had married someone else. Those feelings are weird but valid, I think.
  
  You’re going through a lot right now. I’ve been where you are.. when my grandfather (who I grew up with) died. He died four years ago and I still miss him… I will always miss him but it has gotten (at least somewhat) easier with time. The first several months following the loss are generally the most surreal.
  
  My point is, what you are feeling is normal and you are not alone.
on November 10, 2009 at 1:51 pm | Log in to Reply hopeful7726

I have been doing ok. Still struggling with NC but I resisted the urge (and his invitation) to come see him at the bar where he works, so that is progress I suppose.

I am in the process of moving and last night I found my journal my last big break up, back in 2006. It was devastating for me – far worse than this (although this has been really difficult too). I couldn’t help but laugh a little at the entries. I wrote about how it was so hard for me to believe I would find anyone I loved or cared about as much as I did him. And I wrote that it hurt me to think he and I might never be friends and that he might never be a part of my life again. Funny…I don’t care about him at all anymore. Not even a little, nor do I miss him one bit. I was really young when we dated (22-24) and he was my first real bf and first love. I was naive. That contributed to the devastation when we broke up. I am smarter and stronger now, I know I will get past this. Eventually…

It has been about six weeks now and I am still back and forth between the sadness and anger. The past few days I have been feeling a lot of anger. Last night I read in my old journal that my ex said to me, “I feel like you prevent me from doing things I want to do.” Ouch. That was so mean and I wrote several times about how much it hurt me that he said that (and rightfully so! Esp. because the only thing I prevented him from doing was going out drinking every night with his frat brothers!). But honestly, I had forgotten he even said that. That’s how little I care about him anymore. I look forward to the day I get there with this ex.
on November 10, 2009 at 2:51 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11

Have some great news to share: I got the promotion, with the raise! I am really happy that I fought for myself and that it worked in my favor. It’s not like I am anywhere close to being a millionaire now, but every little bit of extra money helps and it’s a show of good faith.

I start tomorrow! I am actually taking a personal day today so I have a day to lounge and celebrate it. I’ll have my own office for the first time ever (bye bye cubicle, for now!) and I can also work from home one day a week. My new boss seems really smart and nice, and the other person in the section I already really like, as we’ve worked together before.

I am really, really happy about it. No guts no glory, right?
- on November 10, 2009 at 3:01 pm | Log in to Reply genevieve333
  
  That’s fabulous!!!!! Congratulations :)
- on November 10, 2009 at 3:08 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
  
  Sounds great. Congrats!
- on November 10, 2009 at 3:40 pm | Log in to Reply amstrongenough09
  
  Congratulations Movingon! That is great. I applaud you for standing up for yourself (not easy!) but you are so right – no guts, no glory.
- on November 10, 2009 at 3:56 pm | Log in to Reply elles101
  
  Wow, that’s great :) Good for you for going all out to get it!
  - on November 10, 2009 at 4:08 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
    
    Thanks guys :) I appreciate the support!
    - on November 10, 2009 at 4:47 pm | Log in to Reply KWriting
      
      Way to go, wolverine! ;)
      
      Big congratulations!
      - on November 10, 2009 at 6:10 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
        
        “Way to go, wolverine!”
        
        I learn from the best :D
        
        on November 10, 2009 at 6:12 pm | Log in to Reply mphotogirl
        
        That is awesome Movingon….. good for you!!!!
- on November 10, 2009 at 6:19 pm | Log in to Reply George In June
  
  A promotion, a raise, your own office and working from home one day a week? Congratulations!!!
  - on November 10, 2009 at 6:27 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
    
    Thanks Mphoto and George! I am quite excited about it. It’s interesting because yesterday a long-time friend wigged out on me and I was kind of like “huh?” and bummed about the whole thing, and then this happened. It seems like a quick “one door closes, another opens” thing. Usually it takes longer.
- on November 10, 2009 at 6:35 pm | Log in to Reply FootballGirl
  
  Congratulations movingon!!! This is such a great news! Yay! :)
  - on November 10, 2009 at 6:52 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
    
    Gracias FBG :)
    - on November 12, 2009 at 10:06 pm | Log in to Reply imhopeful
      
      Sorry, was away for a few days. I am so happy for you. You deserve it!
on November 10, 2009 at 6:15 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73

Just back from the cinema. Watched a movie that was advertised as a “feelgood” movie. Partly quite funny, but mostly I did not like it, as it was not credible to me.
I just did not buy it.
I’ve noticed that I do see movies with different eyes lately, and I think it has to do with GPYP (which is a very good thing).
There is so much dysfunction, sold as “romantic” out there. So much BS. This particular movie was (amongst other “side plots”) about a couple that had separated and they do not have any contact for 30 years, and now start talking again. And it’s like “oh yeah, their lives were messed up because of a few mistakes, but hey, finally they can talk and it can all be repaired at some point.” That kind of message. Turns me off big time. I’m like “oh puleeeez”.
Anyone else experiencing something similar re. movies etc?
I’m glad that I’m not buying stuff like that anymore :-)
- on November 10, 2009 at 6:25 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
  
  Yep! I think once we change as individuals, then how we see the world and experience things changes as well. I find a lot of those kinds of movies frustrating, especially if I’m supposed to cheer a happy ending between two people who are utterly dysfunctional and wrong for eachother. The ending of “Sex and the City: The Movie,” in regards to Carrie and Big, comes to mind.
  
  What movie was it that you saw?
  - on November 10, 2009 at 6:31 pm | Log in to Reply hopeful7726
    
    Haha I think I was the only person in the theater that DID NOT want Carrie to end up with Big. When they reconciled, everyone went “awww” and I was like “NO! STAY AWAY!”
    - on November 10, 2009 at 6:33 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
      
      Oh God, me too. I couldn’t believe that this was considered a “happy” ending. It was a big shining example of what I don’t want in my life!
      - on November 10, 2009 at 7:57 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
        
        Don’t know what you guys are talking about, but that’s because I’ve never watched Sex and the City :-) Tried to watch it once, didn’t like it, and it stayed that way.
    - on November 10, 2009 at 7:08 pm | Log in to Reply elles101
      
      I know! I was horrified, but even my friends looked puzzled when I mentioned it. I know I’ve changed a bit though, as years ago I found Big attractive (he was like an ex of mine in his behaviour) but when I watched the series again I could not stand him. Yuck.
      - on November 10, 2009 at 7:54 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
        
        I used to love Big as well. Thought he was handsome, charming, and fun. I still think all those things, but he’s also a commitment phobic mess and an emotional disaster for a relationship. I don’t look at him and think “ooh let me date that!” anymore.
        
        Last time I watched the series, I found myself wanting to hang out with Steve (in the later episodes), which caught me completely off guard.
  - on November 10, 2009 at 6:43 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
    
    The movie was called “Looking for Eric” and had some funny moments (a bit of a rough British comedy). But there were things that seemed pretty far-fetched. :)
    I think that many movies (and songs, and books) do trigger beliefs about love and relationships, that are, uhm, well, not credible. Not real.
    - on November 10, 2009 at 6:51 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
      
      Nice. I wasn’t sure if you were going to say “It’s Complicated,” which I saw a preview for recently. Basically a married couple splits up because he left her for someone else, and then years later they start cheating on their new mates with each other. This is a “comedy.”
      - on November 10, 2009 at 6:57 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
        
        What a title. “It’s complicated”? I think what they want to say is “it’s exciting, it’s difficult, it’s crazy.”
        BS.
        If it’s complicated, it ain’t funny.
        The one I saw was advertised as a “feelgood” movie. Apart from a few laughs, I felt pretty depressed to be honest.
        
        on November 10, 2009 at 7:54 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
        
        Haha yeah. How about “It’s a trainwreck! Woohoo!”
        
        on November 10, 2009 at 8:02 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
        
        lol, there is a “relationship status” on Facebook called “it’s complicated”. Apart from finding it absurd to declare such a status in the first place, I think that particular status is “funny”, but not in the way it’s intended I guess.
        “It’s a trainwreck”- lol.
        
        on November 10, 2009 at 8:06 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
        
        I just googled the movie you mentioned and there was a review that goes:
        
        “I think it’s the plot of the ex-wife becoming the adulteress mistress of her ex-husband who’s having problems in his marriage with his young wife that’s the crux of the comedy. It’s quite a comical situation and I would totally go for this movie even if the leads were unknown actors.”
        
        Duh. No thanks :-)
        
        on November 10, 2009 at 8:11 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
        
        I bet “It’s complicated” means that the person is dating multiple people at once. I can’t think of another explanation for that. If I saw that as someone’s status, I’d say see ya.
        
        on November 10, 2009 at 8:22 pm | Log in to Reply Rhea
        
        I think you are right. An exfriend of mine has that status on FB. Very proud of what she calls her poly life style. Rationalizing rolling around in the mud with dysfunctional people. Cant stand it, thats why ex friend. The irony, the woman works as a couples counselour, reality exceeds fiction or how its put in english.
        
        on November 10, 2009 at 8:40 pm movingon11
        
        Ugh, figures. There are a lot of great counselors, but there are also a lot of psychos out there. I remember once I went to a therapist as a kid (family counseling, so fun) and I told her something messed up that went on in my household. Her response was:
        
        “Yeah, my mom tried to drown me in the bathtub once.”
        
        …
        
        True story. Yikes.
on November 10, 2009 at 10:00 pm | Log in to Reply gambit25

Thanks Genevieve.

Yeah, i think thats exactly what im afraid of… bumping into her new guy….. “its gona make me feel bad about ME”…

I think if a person is 100% proud and happy with themselves… then bumping into a former love would be easy…
you consider yourself lucky to NOT be with that person anymore, instead of feeling like your not good enough and that this person dumped you for something better.

I know my confidence and esteem are really low at the moment….. they have been for a while now…..
With all thats been happening the last year, i feel like im not worth much to many people…. i think i only feel valuable to my brother and sister…. and even then i have to think about it .

Since my dads passing, i feel useless…. almost as if he gave me purpose by me trying to do him proud.
I dont have many friends i feel would put their necks out for me and, i dont have a girlfriend so i feel like all the people who matter or should matter in a persons life are just not there anymore.

And even though i run my own business and work whenever times i like, it makes me feel like i dont have a real job…
And i dont have much behind my name in terms of career practice or direction…. my dad was helping me with that…. and now i feel im at square minus 1.

Thing is, i know i AM rock-solid now…
With all the traumatic things that have happened in the past…. very few things can bother me anymore…. but with that being said, i dont feel like its anything to be proud of…
I dont feel relieved or happy to be a survivor… if that is indeed what i am ???

And this is the one thing that i dont know how to fix ???
How do i get my “energy” for life back ?

Any suggestions ?
- on November 10, 2009 at 11:31 pm | Log in to Reply George In June
  
  what about going back to school? It would give you some direction, you’d meet new people. Since your work is flexible, you have a great opportunity to do this.
  - on November 11, 2009 at 11:11 am | Log in to Reply gambit25
    
    Hi Goerge in june
    
    Yeah, i have been thinking bout taking up studies again…. but will have to start next year only as registration is closed until jan.
    
    Meeting new people is definitely something i need right now…… i am really lonely.
    I think thats another reason im so down is that i have so few decent people in my life…. everyone or 99% of them i thought to be so , ended up betraying or hurting me… so i think iv also just lost my hope in people…. i duno ?
    
    But yeah, im hoping that studying gives me some direction and just gives me that “energy” back.
    
    Only problem is that “classes” are expensive…. duno if i can afford it ….but hoping i’ll be able to make a plan.
    
    Thanks for the advice…
on November 10, 2009 at 10:26 pm | Log in to Reply engineer101

gambit25 … I can’t help feeling you need to TRY *something* new. Maybe some kind of volunteering activity? Walking dogs at a local shelter? Habitat for Humanity? (you can sign up for those typically on short notice & for as much time as you can spare) How about a local community organization? Big Brothers/Big Sisters? How about a different perspective where you give YOUR time & talents, if not only for a little while?

I’m sure you’re Dad would definitely be proud if you tried it.
- on November 11, 2009 at 11:02 am | Log in to Reply gambit25
  
  Hi engineer101
  
  Yeah, i need something new….. anything really….
  I just feel as if life is a waste of time… I feel like a hampster in a wheel…. going round and round but never really “going” anywhere…
  Know what i mean ?
  
  Im just tired and raw i guess … had alot of traumatic crap to deal with…. so i think im in a depressed “state” at the moment, which is making everything seem dull.
  At least i hope that is what the problem is…..and i hope i get out of this “state” soon….
  Im on anti-depressant medication and they work but obviously they dont magically make a person feel “happy” .
  
  But yes, im trying new things … dont have a big brother system thing here so… im gona try the animal shelter or something. Also in the process of getting a night time job… just to socialise instead of stayin at home every night/day.
  Thanks for the advice though…
  :)
on November 11, 2009 at 5:40 pm | Log in to Reply findingmyway48

Not a good day. I left my first post under: Predicting the Future by the Past, not sure if anyone read it, there lies my story. After 4 therapy sessions last Friday I lost it! Almost went to the emergency room I was so terribly diswrought, crying, depressed. Instead, I showed up at my MDs office. He put my on 10mg of Lexapro, but I have had the shakes since and today am so nauseas I can’t hardly leave the bed. To make things worse, this was my 3rd day of a new job. They were very understanding, but the stress of calling off has made me more sick. Not to mention, my BF will surely use this against me! To add to things, he got laid off 3 days ago, so we have to sell our house ASAP. That leaves me to wonder where I willl end up. He says we will find a place together, but I think he is just saying that so I won’t get upset, and will dump me when it is all said and done. I was only able to find a pt job at this time (small town and unemployment rates) so I have no idea how I would support myself. Even our car belongs to him. Called the doc, wants me to skip the next dose and the half the ones after that. I cannot function feeling like this, just makes the anxiety worse! Help!
- on November 12, 2009 at 10:12 pm | Log in to Reply imhopeful
  
  It sounds like you need some therapy and a support system. Do you have friends or family you can talk to? If the medication isn’t working, have your doctor try something else. There is no reason you need to feel this bad.
  Totally confused about the BF.
on November 11, 2009 at 6:29 pm | Log in to Reply gambit25

Geez… i duno what just happened… i realised something that is a problem i need to fix…..

Just got home…. was so bored so i went to a friend who works at a bar… she was very busy so i just ended up talking to random people…. was cool.
I went to another bar next door and chatted to a guy friend i have there….
These places, i havent even been to with my ex before….

But one thing remains constant when i go out…..be it bars, clubs , house parties etc….
I keep remembering what me and my ex used to be like or used to do when we went out like this ….. how i felt at that time ….
I know i said i dont love her anymor….which i dont think i do but, surely that would mean i wouldnt keep missing her or missing that “couple” feeling i got when we went out ???
Is love different to missing a person ???

It seems to be a constant problem…… i always get these “flashbacks” when i go to these places…
Am i missing that “comfort feeling” or missing her or, just missing the fact of not going home alone… is this somehow tied into that feeling of being wanted or valued ???

As iv been feeling really lonely the last few weeks….
Im wondering if these “flashbacks” have anything to do with it ???

They really seem to dampen my enjoyment when im out….its such a pain in the ass !!!

How do i stop feeling this way or having these flashbacks ???
- on November 11, 2009 at 7:23 pm | Log in to Reply JohnV
  
  Hi Gambit25,
  
  I know you are still struggling with a lot of things, but you seem to be doing a lot better than a few weeks ago.
  
  “flashbacks” will happen, and continue to happen. A number of techniques that are recommended, but they won’t go away quickly.
  
  I think worrying about them doesn’t help. I was struggling with that. I found laughing at the thoughts, trying to minimalise them helped a lot.
  
  They don’t go away, they just fade away. Slowly you will have “flashbacks” less and less and one day they will stop completely.
  
  What is behind it ? lots of things, all the things you said, missing the good things about of the person, the “comfort feeling”, loneliness.
- on November 11, 2009 at 8:09 pm | Log in to Reply George In June
  
  One way to look at it is to just acknowledge that you are feeling that way and having flashbacks. That’s normal and over time will lessen.
  
  Given that, I’ll bet you had a better time talking to your friend and random people than you would have had if you’d stayed home and did nothing? Was there even a moment when you said to yourself, I’m enjoying myself?
  
  This past weekend, I participated in an annual fundraising walk. Last year during the walk, I was in a happy dreamlike state because things had started to go really well with my ex at the time. This year, it was just a fundraising walk and while walking I thought back to how I’d felt the previous year. But it was still worthwhile and still enjoyable, clearly the best thing for me to be doing at the time given my alternatives.
  - on November 11, 2009 at 9:01 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
    
    Good for you, George! Was it a charity kind of walk? That’s what it sounds like. Good to give back.
    
    I survived my first day on the new job. It was really hectic with a lot to learn, so a bit intimidating. The first week at new jobs always suck. I worry that I’m going to land flat on my face, until enough time passes that it becomes clear they’re not going to can me for incompetence. Then I loosen up a bit.
    
    I came home tonight and have been watching crappy TV, and I already feel better.
    - on November 11, 2009 at 9:45 pm | Log in to Reply George In June
      
      thanks, movingon, yes, it was for the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation. Fundraising for the JDRF is very easy to do the way they have it set up and is worthwhile as well.
      
      Congratulations on surviving your first day, those are tough I agree!
- on November 11, 2009 at 10:14 pm | Log in to Reply lele4
  
  Hi Gambit,
  
  I used this metaphor for someone else in another post several days ago, but when you have these ghosts of feelings past, or “flashbacks” try not to judge them or give them any credence. They’re emotional poltergeists. Simply leftovers from days gone by.
  
  When the feelings or thoughts hit you about your ex try to think of them like a fog bank. If you’re sitting out on a mountain and a bank of fog comes along, you’d sit there in the fog until it moved along. If you spent your time angsting and struggling because the fog had arrived, you’d waste a lot of energy on a phenomenon that was going to move along on its own. If you sit there in that fog thinking, “crap! here’s that fog! I can’t see! How am I supposed to do anything with all this fog!” you’re just swinging at shadows.
  
  Believe me, I know all about those nostalgic feelings. It makes your hand itch to pick up a phone, or google or text and all that jazz. It makes you feel like you need to connect, but it’s just a phantasm. It’s residual crap that if you don’t feed by judging it or inviting it, will move out of your life in its own time. You’re not wallowing in it to simply observe it and not place value to it. It’s simply fog. Fog clears and so does this mess. Google radical acceptance, instead. :)
  - on November 12, 2009 at 5:39 am | Log in to Reply tangolola
    
    I agree with Lele, don’t try to fight your feelings or escape them! Just let them wash over you, thank your mind for trying to protect you and show you every single worst case scenario it can come up with!
    
    Scientifically there’s a good reason why your mind is doing this – it’s just trying to protect you, so it comes up with your own personal version of the hellish possibilities that could be the end of your every action. Acknowledge the thought, give it a name – the Scorned & Rejected movie, the Despair Channel – whatever. And keep making plans. Those thoughts will always be there in the back of everyone’s mind, everyone has them! But if you just gently let them be, you CAN keep going on despite them. Then you usually find that they were a really bad exaggeration of the situation.
    
    I have tried lots of different ways to get rid of these feelings myself – this way is definitely the best. You can eliminate them to some extent if they are smaller, but the bigger ones take a LOT of rationalising to yourself, and they usually come back, or new ones to replace them that are even worse. Bring it on. Let them all exist but gently put them to the back of your mind – and continue on anyway.
    
    TangoLola
on November 12, 2009 at 5:26 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73

Ok, so this is once again (and I hope for the last time) about an ex of mine from 10 years ago whom I loved dearly but who was not good for me and has caused much pain at the time.
I know I have posted on here about him before. And I know you guys have given valuable advice. I must admit I have not remained totally NC with this ghost from the past, and it brings me back to this point. Maybe you’ll have the patience to listen once more. I know something will have to change.
Background: It is an exciting time in my life, though often I find myself confused, I am filled with hope and good energy and think good things are awaiting me. Mostly I am committed to building my life. Day by day.
Ok, so this ex-ex from ages ago (only guy who managed to stay in my head to some degree, over so many years) has been trying to meet me, a few times. Tried various ways, even asked me to go to Istanbul (city I love) with him as an interpreter (and of course it was not about that).
He lives 10 minutes from me and I have never met up with him. My heart races when I bump into him, which does not happen often though.
So, after I have been NC this summer for about 2 months, and he has repeatedly contacted me, I finally gave in (also to his “friends” request on FB. I know I know.)
So, last night he writes this (after he has been a little harsh the other day and then apologized):

“Now seriously, you know that I do care much about you. On the other hand, you are keeping a certain distance, which is legitimate, especially given our history. But I am finding it hard to handle this. I would love to meet with you immediately and ’see what happens’. But for you (and probably us) the time is (unfortunately) over…and that’s why, stupidly, it sometimes happens that I do not treat you the way I would prefer to (namely I would love to treat you as my number One), …but as said, that time is over. …and therefore we have ongoing ups and downs and conflict.”

Ok, that stirred something up in me. We kept talking. And then he said unbelievable things. Like that he does not like people (98% he cannot stand), but only max. 2% of all matter to him, and I am part of that. (WTF?). And that he has always been like that, and he just wants people to leave him alone and he hates how he always has to be friendly with them in his job etc. He just dislikes people.

WHOA.

Then I jokingly said that he cannot even compensate that with animals (because I know he is not much of an animal-lover) and he goes “animals are just good for eating them”. And he tells me he has tried dog once but it did not taste good (because I went “yeah, in China they even eat dogs”). I am sure he wanted to shock me with this info, but I did not react to it. I asked him why he wants to meet if he thinks our time is over, and he goes “maybe it is not over. maybe your distance tells me it is over”.

I have felt so unsafe and bad last night, and could not sleep for hours. I have just shared with a childhood friend who basically says I should immediately delete him from FB and cut all contact for good.

Last night, I was really thinking that he seems mentally ill. I knew that he was weird in many things and not such a safe person to relate to (and I have loved him to pieces), but this is the first time I actually question his mental sanity.

I mean, all this “people-hating” talk. And I am probably expected to feel good because I am amongst the 2 % he “cares” for??

I took a hot shower last night and kept repeating “it’s the actions that count, not the words”.

It’s all left me feeling pretty sick and sad and odd, yet at the same time I am still committed to building my life. I don’t know what it is in me that has resisted the thought of cutting him out completely (like I did for example with my recent ex, no problem there!), so far. I mean, it’s been 10 years since the split and I have only been with him for 10 months. I mean, common.

What is it? I am sure he fills some kind of vacuum that is still there, but life can be so grand these days, I feel mostly good and I start moving (have just sent emails to almost 1000 companies, offering them my interpreting services, something I haven’t done on a big scale like that before, and I cherish life and each day). So what is HIS place in all this?

My friend says he is not good for me and that I need to promise her to delete him from FB.

I’d love to hear your thoughts. I know this is not the first time (and I thought about whether or not to share, because it feels like I am repeating myself and perhaps frustrating you with your advice that I did not take so far), but I could so use some supportive words.

I do NOT want any misery. Honestly.

Thanks
- on November 12, 2009 at 6:53 pm | Log in to Reply George In June
  
  Withough knowing this person, you have to watch out for anyone with a 98%/2% distinction. By simply doing nothing, someone in the 2% would drift to the 98% through entropy. With even the slightest nudge, hello 98%
  - on November 12, 2009 at 7:03 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
    
    Thanks for this, George. I thought something similar. I think it is this “being so critical” or judgmental about people that puts me off so much. Of course everyone is different and some may not relate so well to others etc, but he has quite a negative view that seems generalized (and whines that he has to be friendly to people all the time in his job…I am sure many wouldn’t think of him as a people-hater at all as he tends to be quite an entertainer and friendly).
    Even his explanation (I want to see you, but you keep the distance, I cannot handle it and that’s why you sometimes drift into the 98% although you are in the 2%) just really sucks.
    - on November 13, 2009 at 9:28 am | Log in to Reply Phoenix Rising
      
      Hi Greenroses
      I havent posted for a while but I like to check in once in a while
      
      I have read all the other responses yet but my two cents: This guy really sounds VERY negative and very much a victim type to me.
      
      You are so positive and focused on bulding a happy life – and you have been very successful at it. I can only imagine that allowing Mr Negative to remain in the picture would bring you down.
      
      Its tempting I know because sometimes the void we have is huge and just a little someone is better than looking at the emptiness everyday. But at what cost? Your sanity and emotional health that’s what.
      
      If anything consider this…he is likely the same guy now as he was back then only you werent healthy enough to recognize it and do something about it. Now you are – you can see plain as day who he is.
      
      Ask yourself – Does he measure up to the rest of who you are? Does he add value anywhere? If not then what is the point? :)
      
      Sending healthy ((hugs))
      - on November 13, 2009 at 5:05 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
        
        Thanks J for your support :)
on November 12, 2009 at 5:29 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73

Note: By “I finally gave in”, I mean that I have broken NC (text, FB). Have never met up with him though. That makes me proud.
- on November 12, 2009 at 5:52 pm | Log in to Reply mphotogirl
  
  Hey greenroses…
  
  Well fist off I wouldn’t worry about repeating yourself. I mean that is why we all are here. To support eachother in this process.
  
  I think there are some people who just don’t like others and animals and cannot relate, but that doesn’t mean he is mentally ill, could he be narcissistic? Maybe or maybe that is all BS, and he is just trying to get a reaction out of you.
  
  Also I think there are certain people that will always have a sort of hold on us to some degree. I call my ex my Achille’s heal. I don’t know if I could go completely NC either… although I try, but do get sucked back in at times. But I don’t think you should beat yourself up for that. You are human and obviously you loved him at one point very much.
  
  Now I would also suggest to you, that I bet if you were involved in another relationship where you were very happy, he wouldn’t have this effect on you. Maybe just a little twinge, because of the past but not like this. Also I know you have been thinking of moving and also are looking for work so possibly all that uneasiness is making you more vulnerable to him. If you were very clear on where you were going to live or work, I don’t think you would be this effected.
  
  So do you want to completely cut contact with him but are having a hard time or do you want to reconnect with him at times? If you want to be completely NC with him, then you know what you have to do.
  
  I am not so sure that you want him completely out of your life. And believe me I understand. It is harder to do with some people than with others. Just wondering where you are really, emotionally with this guy. Could you just be bored? Or are you hoping there could be something there, that maybe he is different 10 years later? Is it the thrill of being chased? Know what I mean?
  If other areas in your life were the way you wanted would you even want to talk with him?
  
  I think answering those may help you clarify things for yourself. But at least don’t beat yourself up, it is a learning process. And I think you are doing the best you can.
  - on November 12, 2009 at 5:59 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
    
    Thanks mphotogirl…the “mentally ill” thought is actually a mixture of some things from the past (he was quite radical in his attempts to form and control me, it’s creepy just thinking about it) and some of his comments about always having been hating people (or at least not liking them, and also animals). I dont know.
    Thanks for all your suggestions, they are helpful, I will think about them. I am sure the effect would be different if I was further in the process of building my life. Also, I have tried numerous times to cut him out for good, but then had to admit to myself that there was “something” in it for me (even if just shallow contact by FB etc). But ever so often, I end up at a point where I find our contact disturbing. And that’s when I see him as one big red flag and ask myself what the heck it is I am doing.
    - on November 12, 2009 at 6:40 pm | Log in to Reply musingmirella
      
      It sounds disturbing to me too. There must be “something” in it for you because you’re having a hard time getting him completely out of your life, but what is that? You say that this person can actually make you feel unsafe and bad and I can see why from your description of the interaction. Have there been other people in your past that made you feel this way?
      - on November 12, 2009 at 6:55 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
        
        Not really….I’ve had a very safe upbringing. I don’t think everything can be explained by what has been in the past…maybe the time has come to cut him out for good..I dont know. I just dont know. All I know is that I don’t want to feel “disturbed”.
        
        on November 13, 2009 at 5:07 pm | Log in to Reply lele4
        
        Greenroses,
        
        The fact that this gent still has a pass to your mind suggests to me that there is a quality about him that still fits a spot that’s unhealed inside of you.
        
        If you had worked out all of your grimms and ghosties he wouldn’t have a chance with you. You wouldn’t have a energetic place for him, I don’t think. In this case, do you feel like his is the water level you want to be parked at?
        
        If you met him today, just a stranger on the street, and he told you some of the odd things that you know about him, would you be all warm and fuzzy, or would you back away from the scary man?
        
        I’m wondering if you might not need to do another relationship inventory (especially on the heels of the questionable friendship situation that you had to deal with a few weeks ago) and see what sort of ghouls and haints you’ve got still perched deep in your soul.
        
        It sounds like you’re making 97% of the things you’re supposed to be doing, maybe you still need to shine a light on that last 3 or so percent?
        
        You’ve got a terrific head on your shoulders and I’m sure that you’re going to get this worked out, I just hope it’s BEFORE there’s more heartache, not after. Romantic revisionism can be veeerryyy tricky to navigate. Don’t let an old pair of rose glasses cloud your vision.
        
        on November 13, 2009 at 5:24 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
        
        Hi lele,
        
        oh God, no of course I would back away if I met him as a stranger today, saying that stuff! There is zero attractive about that. But, you know, it’s not what I fell in love with in the first place either (11 years ago). I mean, the creepy side of him took a while to come out…which is when everything started to go down the drain.
        Thanks for your suggestions.
        How are you doing? I loved your wound metaphor on the other thread :)
        
        on November 14, 2009 at 9:33 am | Log in to Reply lele4
        
        Hi GR, I’m doing fairly well, thanks. I have been 6 weeks since the last time my ex showed up on my porch. I still struggle on occasion with “what if”. “What if he shows up again. Will I turn him away?” “What if he drives by my house” “What if I see him out somewhere. What will I do?” I still find myself occasionally having conversations with him in my head, “I don’t know why you’re here, I told you never to contact me again. Why are you here??” but I remind myself that it’s simply a mental “fog bank” and it will pass without my intervention. I looked outside this morning and there was a light fog all around and I smiled. That metaphor really helps me.
        
        This site and the posters who write in have been such a benefit to me. The entries have given me perspective on my history and present and have helped me clarify the things I’d want in my future. It has given me an opportunity to strengthen my ideas about healing by “hearing myself” give my thoughts to others in their situations. When I tell someone what I think might help them, I’m reinforcing it to myself, too.
        
        I have have gleened a lot of health and healing from many of your posts. I know that you’re going to find the key to unlocking this guy’s hold on you. You deserve much better than a social recluse who has to force himself to be decent to those “unlucky” 98% of the world.
        
        The qualities that you fell in love with aren’t the qualities that sifted to the top when it came to separating the wheat from the chaff. It sounds like this guy’s chaff might be more substantial than his wheat.
        
        You, friend, deserve MUCH better. You deserve the best that life has to offer. (By the way, I’m telling myself this, too. :) Go affirmations!
    - on November 12, 2009 at 7:56 pm | Log in to Reply engineer101
      
      GR – It sounds like you still have work to do for youself, and this guy really is going to be some kind of chronic Achille’s heel for you unless you make a change. I can relate. I think you’ve really got to review that NC option, and if you don’t think you can do that yet, tune the contact wayyy the hell down. Somebody who can get you this twisted up following an hour (?) conversation probably isn’t good for you, plain and simple.
      
      Pretty much I’m reading your in the misery you “don’t want” …
    - on November 12, 2009 at 10:29 pm | Log in to Reply imhopeful
      
      Hi Green,
      We all think about past exes. I would be concerned about the comments. I believe in instinct. Yours is telling you something.
      It is flattering to have someone think about you after all these years. But I think he is being manipulative and testing the waters. Again, listen to your gut.
      There are ways to block people on FB without them really knowing it. I am sorry you are going through this.
      - on November 13, 2009 at 5:16 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
        
        Hi imhopeful,
        yeah, it’s flattering, particularly as he was my big love at the time. He’s also the only man whom I still felt in love with, 18 months after our split and despite having been NC all that time (this is not to discourage anyone re. NC, but it’s how I’ve felt it at the time). Then we met again and dated shortly. For 2 days or so, lol. It took him less and less to make me feel unsafe and bad, despite the underlying “thrill”.
        It’s strange how we remained more or less in touch over all those years. But I sense the connection isn’t the healthiest (and never was, far from that, though very intense), and surely not adding to my life.
        I think I’ll take the focus off of him and concentrate on my building work :). Also, I am examining what it is that I am projecting on him at this point, because there must be a lot of projection (as our contact is only virtual at this point). I’m seeing things pretty clearly. Maybe I will never be able to “explain” why it is especially this disturbed person whom I loved so dearly and who continued – to some extent – to influence me over the years. I seem to have a similar effect on him, although I feel he has less to loose (that’s why he wants to meet), because he can be rather shallow and he’s so different, not really profound. But I would get hurt. Good to write and think about this.
        How are you? Still going to Pilates? I wanted to go today, but then decided for a bubble bath and facial instead. Planning to go to a wonderful chanson concert tomorrow night, to a location I’ve never been to. I’m in the mood for new experiences! Feels like spring, almost :)
        Thanks for your support.
        
        on November 14, 2009 at 12:11 pm | Log in to Reply imhopeful
        
        Hi Green,
        Who can explain love? Not me. I have never been able to stay friends with an ex. Either they were devastated or I was and it never worked out.
        That’s why it’s nice to have Susan validate NC. That was one thing I did right. Just didn’t know the other things like boundaries, keeping your side of the street clean, etc. Very liberating.
        I know you will do what’s right for you.
        I am still going to Pilates. LOVE it! It is amazing the changes in my body. Unfortunately I need to get off my fat a#@ and do some aerobics. I was running in the summer and then slacked off. I bought the cutest pink running shoes to motivate me again. About 2 months ago. Not working. Hopefully will get geared up to start this week. I feel so much better emotionally when I am running consistently.
        Still see the ex-bananahead at work. Not as hard as it use to be. Moving from anger to apathy. Finally. Still recycling here and there.
        Good call on bath and facial. I hope you have a great time at the concert tonight!
        
        on November 14, 2009 at 12:22 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
        
        Hi there,
        the concert is sold out :-( Well, I’ll find something else. Maybe I’ll just get myself a nice DVD for tonight. Shall visit my childhood friend tomorrow (one-hour drive), so some coocooning might be nice also.
        It’s great to have that feeling about your body. I’m back to the weight I had prior to the relationship (I had gained some weight over those years, and did not manage to loose it at the time) and it feels great. Good riddance to excess luggage! :)Also, with dance class, walks and workouts etc I feel very much in shape. I only occasionally go to Pilates but it’s funny to learn new things.
- on November 13, 2009 at 5:56 pm | Log in to Reply tangolola
  
  I think you’re doing such a great job greenroses, doing so many new things and really building the life you want to have, this is just an example of the “twinge” we get when something from our past resonates with someone or something. Who knows why?! I don’t think there are answers to these questions! Some places, sounds, smells, hair colours, body types, phrases, kinds of clothes (I could go on …) really just rock our world – and we may never understand the reasons behind it! But if we ask the question “will this add to my life or take away from it” and are able to leave it go if the answer is a negative one – you are winning the game.
  
  I got a message from a guy from my past the other day, and his voice STILL makes my heart skip a beat – but it’s just his actual VOICE, the guy is a complete wreck! He has major addictions, issues with past exes, major emotional dramas in his life permanently – and to be involved even in a slight way, as we were a few years back, was to hear endless stories of how he was done wrong, lied to, tricked, treated badly and how the world was basically against him. Therefore we should drink a lot of scotch and take a lot of drugs. Hmmm. It was a child’s reaction to the world sometimes being unfair, but you know what the guy has a REALLY NICE VOICE and is quite good looking.
  
  Previous messages have led to dinner or drinks a couple of times over the years. About 4 months ago I ignored the message, then picked up when I didn’t recognise the number and he talked me into a dinner which he CANCELLED ON THE DAY. I couldn’t believe that he had the nerve to call again last week – I listened to that charming voice, enjoyed it, then was annoyed by the fact that he thought he had another chance to see me, and let it go at that. If I wanted to be in a whirlwind of .. well nothing really, the guy likes to have several women on the go at once and is an emotional minefield … I could reply and it would be a twisted dysfunctional thing. It would also be kind of exciting and interesting in a frantic kind of way.
  
  And if I was 18 or even 27 again – I would probably go through the whole spin cycle again. Now I just listen, enjoy the voice, and go treat myself to a massage or watch a film or go and dance – all better options than his wasting my life. It’s mine and it’s precious. When we’ve been building the life we want to lead for a while – we get very protective about our time and our focus. Finally.
  
  TangoLola
  - on November 13, 2009 at 6:27 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
    
    Aw thanks, tangolola, this has been so helpful to read. I agree about the time and focus becoming more precious. I catch myself at thinking “I just cannot afford that BS anymore”, at this point. I’m now 36 and I agree, at 20 something, I would have probably gone through the whole cycle also. I am also glad that you can relate to the “unexplainable attraction” we have to certain people or characteristics. At some point, re. this man, I’ve given up trying to find an explanation. No, I have not had a messed up childhood and I am not looking for danger and BS. This guy is also physically attractive to me, really totally my type. But that is certainly not enough, lol. Just like the voice you enjoy.
    I especially liked your distinction between “being drawn to someone” and being able to question whether the person adds to our lives or not. And act accordingly. It is not bad to have feelings, even for someone who is totally wrong for us. But we need to be able to not ACT on those feelings.
    And isn’t that great? We always have a choice.
    He absolutely rocked my world, once upon a time ago. And I do enjoy some of the memories. BUT: It feels healthier to leave it at that and not flirt with the past. Building a new life is so much more exciting…and it would be great, someday, to meet someone who is easygoing, cool, a good person, and able to handle me :)
on November 13, 2009 at 1:25 am | Log in to Reply scottod

Hello Everyone,

I am so glad to see that this website is still alive and well.
It saved my a** when I was really hurting from the last breakup back in 2008.
I read voraciously and I wrote quite a bit and it really helped me get through a horible time in my life.
Well, the reason I am back is because it happened again
(the same person broke up with me again)!
Let me explain. We got together in October of 2003, and have had a history of breaking up & getting back together again (I don’t even know how many times it has happened). The pattern is always the same: she breaks it off, and then at some point she contacts me and we end up back together.
This last time that we broke up (March 2008) is when I found this site and first heard about No Contact, and I stuck to it for 7 long months (God was it hard in the beginning!). Anyway, after the 7 months, she came knocking on my door and said that she wanted to make an amends to me (we are both in AA), and I was a bit angry (and confused, and anxious) and was kind of mean at first, but I could see that she was really upset and I asked her
“What is it that you want from me?” and she aked if we could go somewhere and talk. So we did. I should mention that in some of the breakups she went back to her ex (which was the case this time as well). Well, we talked for 5 hours, and come to find out, her ex had kicked her out of his car in a bad part of a local city because they fighting, and it sounded to me like she was finally done with him, so I said that I would like to see her again. Long story short, we got back together again.
In the little over a year since we had been back together, the relationship finally seemed to be working pretty good and there were no major problems. The last year has been pretty tough in other areas of my life (I quit one of my part time jobs to take a full time job that I ended up hating, and went back to my old job at a lower rate of pay, so my money situation kind of sucks), so I have been a bit depressed.
Anyway, her and I were getting along good (even though we didn’t get to see each other much because of our work schedules), but in the last month (and especially the last week), I could feel distance between us, and last Saturday night she dropped the bomb on me.
Some of the reasons that she gave were true to a certain extent (about me not really pursuing better employment (even though I have applied for several jobs), and me slacking up on my 12-step program), but in the past she has used the same reasons, while behind the scenes she was already with, or planning to be with, her ex. She said that this time there was not another man involved, but do I believe her? (not really).
All that being said, here I am struggling not to call her and try to bargain with her (which I did on Saturday night, like an idiot!), but I intend to stick to NC again no matter what.
One thing that I wanted to mention is this little game I play with my cell phone. I leave it in silent mode, so that “just because I don’t hear the phone ring doesn’t mean that she hasn’t called” (and because I kind of don’t want to talk to her), and I check it periodically to see if she has called (pretty messed up, huh?). Has anyone else done things like this?
And even after all the pain that she has put me through, there is still some part of me that loves her and wants to get back with her (even more messed up).
They say that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results, so I guess I am a bit insane.
Anyway, I am doing OK so far, but it really hasn’t sunk in yet, and when it does, I will be a hurting mess.
The good news is that this has lit a fire under my a**, and I have commited myself to go to 90 12-step meetings in ninety days (and I do not have the urge to drink), and to go through the 12 steps again with my sponsor. I also have looked for and applied to some jobs, and I went to a local college to get some info about going back to school again. I have also started some counseling, and have re-connected with some friends that I had kind of dropped while I was in the relationship (good co-dependent that I am).
It will be a rough road, but by now at least I know what to do to get through this, and I am not alone.
Thanks Again GPYP!!!

scottod

P.S. – Sorry for such a long post, but I just had to get it out, and writing (or typing it) out helps me to sort through it all.
on November 13, 2009 at 1:58 am | Log in to Reply scottod

Hello Again,

Well, it’s only day 5 of No Contact, and already I am an emotional wreck. I am constantly checking my phone to see if she has called, and I am obsessively thinking of her, and what she might be doing, who she might be with, etc.. I know, IT DOESN’T MATTER!, and it’s really not my business or concern, but I can’t just switch off my feelings like she apparently can and has (once again). I am trying to stop the thoughts by saying STOP! to myself and/or praying for the obsession to be removed, and it usually works to a ceratin extent, but sometimes I don’t catch myself and before I know it I am fondly recalling times I had with her, sadly thinking about how she has hurt me,
thinking angry and hateful thoughts about her, etc., etc., etc.. I guess the hardest part for me is the mixed signals she has given me in the past and this time as well (we have had several breakups before – see my post above), When she broke it off (by phone – the coward’s way out if you ask me) last Saturday, there were several things that she said that my mind latches onto as hope. First of all, I asked her if she loved me and she said yes (even though her actions certainly don’t show me that). Also, when I did my bargaining, telling her that I would look for a better job, re-connect with my AA sponsor, and go to 90 AA meetings in 90 days, she said something like “Then we’ll talk in 90 days”. And lastly, she said that she needed to “re-group”, and that if it was “meant to be”, we would be together someday. I know that I shouldn’t be thinking about getting back with her, but early in this process this is usually what happens. Anyway, I keep telling myself that any contact with her right now is going to cause a lot more pain, but there is that part of me (the addict part) that wants her to call and/or wants me to call her so bad I can almost taste it. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to stop the obsessive thinking?

Thank You, I have to try to get some sleep now.

scottod
- on November 13, 2009 at 5:45 pm | Log in to Reply lele4
  
  Scottod,
  
  As someone who is on the fringe of someone elses recovery from alcohol and my own recovery from relationship issues, I’d have to suggest that there is a chance that your relationship was might have been fanning or fueling some addiction.
  
  It will probably give you some internal flinching to look at that, especially when you’re still feeling the “love”. You yourself know that they don’t recommend people in recovery get into relationships for a year after the recovery starts. There’s a reason for that.
  
  Talk to your sponsor, talk to a counselor, talk to your best friend, talk to the lamp post on the corner, do not talk to her.
  
  You’re in the midst of a double whammy. You’re struggling with addiction as well as the pain of a major breakup. Either one of those things is enough to torment someone. Dealing with the both of them is an uphill battle.
  
  Read your big book, go to your meetings, read the pamphlets that they have at the meetings, read Susan’s book. Listen to audiobooks, volunteer, be extremely kind to yourself. Radical acceptance is the key to this misery. Acceptance of yourself, encompassing everything about you. Not just the “good”. Look at those areas that you’d change and love those, too. Everyone has a dark side as well as a light side. Live in the light, but love yourself as a whole.
  
  This girl is telling you that she’s not up for this relationship in every way except right in your face saying the words, “I don’t want this relationship”. Oprah has a good saying, “doubt means don’t”. You carry hope for this girl, but you doubt her. If you doubt her intentions or motives, don’t leave yourself open to further pain. A lot of women would rather chop their own arm off while the guy sleeps than to have to admit to him that she doesn’t want to be there. Confrontation makes them want to run for the hills. She’ll give half hearted “maybe” type of replies to keep from having to say, “no thanks”. You deserve better than that. That personality trait is on her, not you. Of course, she may also be great, just not great for you. Leave it alone, for ahead there be monsters. Personal, toothsome monsters. Guaranteed to bite your arse.
  
  Move forward in your life. Pamper yourself like a king. Find new and exciting music to listen to, soak in the tub, watch tv in your most comfortable clothes in the most comfortable chair in the house. Relax, enjoy your meals and get healthy.
  
  You can do this… and you know what they say… “it works if you work it”. Work it.
- on November 13, 2009 at 6:30 pm | Log in to Reply amstrongenough09
  
  Scottod,
  
  I’m sorry to hear about what you are going through. But realize that you are already ahead of the game by recognizing where you are in this process and what you need to do.
  
  NC is imperative.
  
  I’m not an alcoholic but I am a relationship addict (recovering) so I understand the addiction process and its challenges.
  
  Obsessing thoughts – I still find myself obsessing (on occasion) and it’s been over a year. The obsession is more like a bad habit now. It’s completely possible to stop though – just takes repeated effort and time.
  Among other things, I found that taking up fitness classes helped tremendously. Exercise is good for overall piece of mind. I chose to take classes instead of doing exercise on my own because it keeps me focused on the instructor, and the others in the class. In the beginning, I was obsessing even during the classes, and just saying to myself ‘get through it’ but now I absolutely enjoy the classes, the people, and the whole experience is completely positive, and I do not connect it with him at all anymore.
  
  Be patient with yourself – this will take time. Read and re-read all of the posts on here – especially ‘Discount it All’ (mixed signals).
  
  Don’t give up on yourself. One day at a time…
on November 13, 2009 at 4:22 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11

Ok so my dating life seems to have kicked into high gear over the past couple of weeks — it’s been really enjoyable and exciting. I’ve spent a lot of time this past year not dating at all and focusing on other things, but it’s like I completely forgot how fun it can be! I think what happened is that I had a really bad experience last summer with a guy and then kind of swore the thing off for a bit. Before then, I had been dating quite a bit (though, admittedly, I wasn’t really ready) and having a good time.

Trouble is that there’s this nice guy I am seeing who I told I want to see casually, and it doesn’t seem like he’s hearing that part of it. I feel like he’s trying to win me over into wanting something more serious. He’s a relationship guy and I’m not in relationship mode, and even if I was, he’s not “it.” Last night he was texting me while I was hanging out with another guy and I almost felt guilty, like I was cheating on him or something (bleh!).

Is there a nice way to let someone know that you mean what you said about being casual? I feel like I’m probably going to have stop seeing him altogether, as to not lead him on and hurt him, but I don’t know the right way to go about it. Generally I’d fade out but we’ve been friends for a while so that would be a really bad move in this case.

Any advice? Thanks.
- on November 13, 2009 at 5:53 pm | Log in to Reply lele4
  
  Movinon,
  
  It sounds like you’re going to have to either start making those light , round about conversational gambits like, “I’m so glad to have a friend to hang out with. I was telling the guy that I was talking to at the bar how nice it is to just date and not be “serious” with anyone right now”….
  
  Or you could just come right out and tell him, “hey, I get the impression that you’re looking for more out of this relationship than I am. I’m enjoying dating and meeting people, I’m not looking for a serious thing, right now. I don’t want either of us to get hurt. Are we dancing to the same tune, or should we go our separate ways?”
  
  If you’re not sending him mixed signals by sleeping with him, or meeting parents, or getting all inclusive with best friends or something, then it’s up to him to decide if he just wasn’t wanting to hear what you said, and move on, or clarify what he thought you were both doing.
  
  If he shows his butt and accuses you of trying to string him along or whatever sort of mess like that, then you know to pack up your little glad rags and go the other direction.
  
  Good luck. These training relationships can be sticky… :)
  - on November 13, 2009 at 6:35 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
    
    Thanks Lele! That makes sense to me. I have a feeling the roundabout approach won’t work with him so I probably need to be direct.
    
    I am not sleeping with him or meeting his parents. Extra yikes on the latter. It feels more like the slow boil that happens before a relationship (like taking it slow, etc). My main goal lately is to keep my side of the street clean. I feel that by continuing to date this guy despite knowing his feelings are stronger for me is not doing so.
    
    It’s kind of fun dating through new eyes. I never had boundaries before in my life so I certainly didn’t with guys either. Now I have more than I know what to do with!
    - on November 13, 2009 at 7:40 pm | Log in to Reply amstrongenough09
      
      Moving On,
      
      Good for you in having a great time in the dating world!
      
      Can’t wait to get there myself one day (I think) :)
      
      With regard to this guy, I know it’s awkward and I know what you are saying, but everything we are learning from this site is telling us not to worry about other people’s reactions/feelings to our actions and feelings, right?
      
      There’s probably not really a NICE way of saying it but you have to regardless. And if he takes it hard, then that is something that he must deal with on his own. I don’t say this lightly. We’ve all had good friends/relationships where one person wants more and the other does not…I’ve been in both places.
      
      When I was the one who wanted more and they didn’t, despite the sting, I always respected the ones who were upfront with me than the ones who avoided it, even though I knew they were avoiding it because it was awkward, or they didn’t want to hurt me, or perhaps they didn’t want to feel guilty or whatever – doesn’t’ matter why.
      But by avoiding it, they kept my hopes alive when there really was never any chance.
      
      And when I was the one on the other side, who didn’t want more but they did, yeah, I would pretty much just fade out and hope they got the hint. I feel bad about that now but is done.
      I hope that I have changed enough that I wouldn’t do it like that anymore.
      
      It’s a very awkward situation but I believe that to be straightforward is the healthier way for everyone.
      You already know that too as you mentioned about keeping your side of the street clean and feeling like you are not doing so here.
      
      Your words are inspirational to me – “It’s kind of fun dating through new eyes. I never had boundaries before in my life so I certainly didn’t with guys either. Now I have more than I know what to do with!”
      
      Good luck on this!
      - on November 13, 2009 at 11:32 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
        
        Amstrong,
        
        Thanks! I agree with you that being direct is the way to go. I’m going to let him know tonight. No need to put this off.
        
        I went out recently with a different guy and we had a really great time, no games, no issues. Just enjoying eachother’s company. He’s not right for me as far as a relationship goes either but it was mutually fun.
        
        My advice would be not to date until you feel ready to do so, as it can set you back a lot (I tried to skip over my breakup grief for a while via dates — never works). I am definitely over my ex now so I am open to meeting new people. I just tried to reach this point prematurely at first.
- on November 13, 2009 at 6:30 pm | Log in to Reply George In June
  
  The problem is that in the beginning, what you are saying seems perfectly normal, that you are not looking for anything serious, lots of people say that, its merely seen as an extra challenge by this guy, if he really likes you, to win you over like you said. So you can rest assured that he knows you want to just see him casually, he’s just ignoring it. Which implies you are not leading him on. So I would say just carry on.
  - on November 13, 2009 at 6:37 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
    
    George,
    
    I do think there’s the challenge aspect, for sure, but he also has said he is a relationship guy and he recently had his heart broken. I do think I can be casual with him but I get the feeling he can’t with me. It wouldn’t be leading him on, but I guess I’m trying to avoid disasters as much as possible these days.
    - on November 13, 2009 at 8:16 pm | Log in to Reply KWriting
      
      “he recently had his heart broken”–isn’t that a disaster waiting to happen, though? I see someone with a still-healing heart as a red flag for anything beyond a platonic friendship. It doesn’t matter if you told him you just want to be casual from the beginning…he probably listened with a broken heart instead of a healed heart like yours. Just my two cents. :)
      - on November 13, 2009 at 11:16 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
        
        Hi Kathy,
        
        It is a disaster waiting to happen, which is why I am going to walk away. It’s still really early and nothing has happened yet (other than going on a few pleasant outings). We’ve been friends the past year. Recently he’s been really turning up the intensity, which leads me to believe it’s really not about me at all but rather his desire to fill a void. After my ex, I see abrupt intensity as a red flag — it tends to signal some deeper problem.
        
        I briefly considered casually dating him despite the red flags (not something I told him, just something I considered), because he is a good guy and we have a good time together, but I changed my mind. I think the key is that I came around quickly and before anything more happened.
        
        It’s one thing to learn techniques and approaches about dating, and another thing entirely to apply them. The fact that I know to put the kibash on this already is a sign of how far I have come. At another point in my life, this easily could have turned into a long, screwed-up relationship. So I think that alone is progress.
        
        on November 13, 2009 at 11:23 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
        
        To clarify: We never had the “let’s date” talk. It’s that he asked what I was looking for in general, I said something casual, and then he started getting into wooing mode and I didn’t oppose to it. Then he started getting more serious.
        
        I should have opposed to it instantly, but I didn’t. I guess I was trying to see if I could like someone like him, as he’s not really my type. Sometimes you just don’t know til you try. But I know now before it’s gone anywhere crazy.
        
        on November 14, 2009 at 2:00 am | Log in to Reply KWriting
        
        It is excellent that you could apply what you’ve learned to a new dating experience and figure out the red flags so early. I think all the work is much easier in theory than in practice. My relationship with my sister is a perfect example. ;) You’re doing GREAT.
        
        on November 14, 2009 at 12:56 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
        
        Thanks Kathy :) I let him know. He’s not thrilled but he understands (his life isn’t totally together so there’s no real potential there). I feel good about it.
        
        on November 15, 2009 at 7:18 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
        
        Oh boy.
        
        So I think it’s sunken in now and he is putting up a bit of a fight. He is saying that if I want casual, then he can do casual, but I told him his talk doesn’t match his walk and I am only going to hurt him. That I don’t see the point getting into something knowing it’s going to end in disaster.
        
        It seems a bit to me like he is kidding himself.
        
        Oof, awkward.
        
        on November 16, 2009 at 4:26 pm amstrongenough09
        
        Moving On,
        
        Stay strong on your stance. I feel for him, but you are doing him a BIG favour. I believe that you are dead on with him wanting to just likely fill a void, and that he is kidding himself. I would dare to say that the more he professes that he CAN keep it casual, the more he probably can’t.
        At this stage, it’s just a disappointment for him. But disappointment is much better than getting hurt.
        
        I hear you about waiting to date until being ready. For me, all of this learning and changing won’t really mean as much until I can actually apply it to a real situation. I can THINK all I want about what’s healthy and what isn’t, but it’s a whole new ballgame to actually BE in the situation and see how I react.
        
        Doing it too soon, and for the wrong reasons is not for me.
        And as much as I want to be, I don’t think I’m QUITE over this past situation yet enough to start a new healthy relationship. But I am definitely on a much better track than ever before, which gives me hope (and for the first time in my life, REAL hope not ‘fantasy’ hope).
        
        I honestly do feel different in some of my other relationships – parents, friends, co-workers etc, and that is a good sign.
        Baby steps!
        
        You sound like you are in such a good place right now and are a true example of what IS possible from applying everything we are learning here.
        
        Every now and then I feel a slip, but I come back here and it pushes me forward again.
        I am 40 and well, I know that the clock is ticking. My challenge is to surrender to the fact that I may never have children of my own and to accept that. I know that could change, but I must be prepared for it if it doesn’t. And I don’t want to get into a relationship for the sole purpose of having a child because ‘time is running out’. I know that one of the reasons I held onto this last guy was just that.
        I now shudder to think of what life would have been like if I was to have had a child with that person. Disaster.
        
        Life is unfolding as it should.
        
        on November 16, 2009 at 4:26 pm amstrongenough09
        
        Moving On,
        
        Stay strong on your stance. I feel for him, but you are doing him a BIG favour. I believe that you are dead on with him wanting to just likely fill a void, and that he is kidding himself. I would dare to say that the more he professes that he CAN keep it casual, the more he probably can’t.
        At this stage, it’s just a disappointment for him. But disappointment is much better than getting hurt.
        
        I hear you about waiting to date until being ready. For me, all of this learning and changing won’t really mean as much until I can actually apply it to a real situation. I can THINK all I want about what’s healthy and what isn’t, but it’s a whole new ballgame to actually BE in the situation and see how I react.
        
        Doing it too soon, and for the wrong reasons is not for me.
        And as much as I want to be, I don’t think I’m QUITE over this past situation yet enough to start a new healthy relationship. But I am definitely on a much better track than ever before, which gives me hope (and for the first time in my life, REAL hope not ‘fantasy’ hope).
        
        I honestly do feel different in some of my other relationships – parents, friends, co-workers etc, and that is a good sign.
        Baby steps!
        
        You sound like you are in such a good place right now and are a true example of what IS possible from applying everything we are learning here.
        
        Every now and then I feel a slip, but I come back here and it pushes me forward again.
        I am 40 and well, I know that the clock is ticking. My challenge is to surrender to the fact that I may never have children of my own and to accept that. I know that could change, but I must be prepared for it if it doesn’t. And I don’t want to get into a relationship for the sole purpose of having a child because ‘time is running out’. I know that one of the reasons I held onto this last guy was just that.
        I now shudder to think of what life would have been like if I was to have had a child with that person. Disaster.
        
        Life is unfolding as it should.
        
        on November 16, 2009 at 6:58 pm movingon11
        
        AmStrong,
        Thanks for the support! I agree that I did him a favor by cutting the chord. I didn’t hear from him at all today (usually I do throughout the day) but I’m going to give him space.
        
        I also agree that frequently the more someone insists on something, the less likely it is true. I remember that from therapy once. I was going on and on about how fine I was with something (related to my ex) and she stopped me dead in my tracks to say: “The lady doth protest too much.” I ended up laughing. Got me.
        
        I think it’s great that you are not getting into a relationship simply to have a child. That could easily be a one-way ticket to hell. Would you consider having a child on your own? Adopting, etc?
- on November 14, 2009 at 12:08 pm | Log in to Reply Phoenix Rising
  
  HI Movingon
  Sounds like you are doing really well and I just wanted to chime in on your dating. Because I have been doing that too for a while.
  
  So I got to the point where I loved dating also. I did so many fun things and with different people. I was very very VERY clear about what I wanted and didnt want all along. “No relationships thank you, just dating right now”. It is a bit of a challenge dating multiple people – you kinda forget what you told one and you say things like “didnt I tell you this” or “that was a great movie we saw” and they werent the one you saw it with! One guy laughed when I got all confused like that one night – he understood :)
  
  I eventually drilled down to just two guys that I was dating, both I liked in different ways and both were so very respectful of where I was at. They both would say in there own way they were just happy to hang out with me – no pressures. They also both said they could tell I knew what I want and dont want and they were HAPPY that I communicated with them and let them know! Yes Happy! I was really surprised at that but I guess it makes sense. It’s been so easy in the past to not communicate.I am starting to narrow down my dating to just one guy and this is NOT the guy I thought it would be. My advice is be as up front tell them where it’s at. How are they ever going to know what not to do if you dont tell them.
  
  By the way, I’m close to narrowing down my dating to just one guy. This was not my plan, I wanted to keep dating lots of people but this one is standing out from the rest. And MovingOn he is NOT the one I would have ever guessed I would like. He was way too nice. When I first started seeing him I wasnt really attracted to him because he wasnt really my type, he didnt trigger any chemistry and we had more differences than things in common but he was nice and I knew this is the kind of guy I could feel safe with dating so I kept going out with him- it was just dating right? So e’ve been slowly dating since July. For the last couple of months we have been chatting online almost every night (chatting is my request). Sometimes we have short convos others times long. He’s consistent, he’s kind, he’s respectful of me and my wishes. He’s aware of relationship dynamics and self work. I respect him and his values – which are similar to mine. I have been up front about my boundaries with him and if he does something that triggers something from the past, I take my time and figure out what it’s about. If it’s something about him, I tell him and we talk it out. There are still some questions I have and things I need to observe about him so I’m not “all-in” yet but I’m getting close. It’s like peeling an onion – getting to knwo someone takes quite a while. It’s interesting to watch as my fears one by one are falling away because he is so consistent and kind. Last night for the first time I looked at him and realized, wow he is really handsome – that was a shocker for me! I always thought he was ok looking but last night, he was handsome :) When we were standing outside of the movie theater in line for tickets I said my hands were freezing and he grabbed them both and rubbed them and then tucked me inside of his coat. So sweet.
  
  So I know I digress but want to point out that sometimes the ones that we dont think are our types – well they might just be.
  
  Keep dating, keep being up front with what you want and dont want. Tell them loud and clear – I used to be afraid to do that but now I think what have I got to lose? ME was always my answer so I got brave and started putting it out there. It’s getting much easier!
  
  Keep going, keep dating…glad you are having fun with that!
  - on November 23, 2009 at 10:00 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
    
    Hey Phoenix!
    
    Thanks for the post — I’m sorry I didn’t see it til now (got lost in the shuffle). That is great that you met a guy that isn’t your typical type, but who you could see being serious about. Woohoo!
    
    I am open to guys who aren’t my typical type, but one thing I’m not open to are guys who don’t have their stuff together. This guy I was discussing fits that bill. He is a genuinely nice person and has lots of potential, but I’m done with all that. I want someone who has their life in order, a career, isn’t totally lost. I have no doubt that there’s another girl out there who will make this guy happy.
    
    Please do keep us posted on your blossoming relationship! I’m excited for you :)
on November 13, 2009 at 6:03 pm | Log in to Reply FootballGirl

I feel that I’m making good progress. The heartache in the morning has eased quite a lot. I’m happy to report that waking up to classical music and immediately thinking positive thoughts and giving thanks for a brand new day definitely helped.

I still talk about the relationship over and over again to my therapist and I’m frustrated that I’m STILL processing it, sifting through every little detail. My therapist says that although it seems like I’m talking about the relationship and the breakup over and over again, I discover something new every week when I see her, so this is very encouraging. She also thinks I’m doing incredibly well despite going through the grieving process because I’m doing things I enjoy to build my life – traveling, working on/promoting my new online business, spending time with friends, taking classes and lessons. I still cry sometimes, but I don’t cry for hours anymore. I’m now just waiting for my broken heart to catch up with the rest of my being so I can truly move on completely.

Last night I unintentionally picked up the assistant manager at my local CVS store. LOL! I’ve seen him before and thought he was kind of cute, but not as a dating prospect. Last night as I was leaving the store, he was on his break talking on the phone. He saw me and nodded and smiled at me, so I smiled and said hello back. He came chasing after me after I walked out the store. To my surprise, he was a gentleman and extended an invitation wanting to get to know me. I thought, why not? So I told him I’m open to making new friends and he gave me his number. He told me he’s originally from New Orleans and he produces jazz music (aside from the CVS job). He said he’ll give me a copy of the CD from this band he’s producing the next time he sees me. I love jazz music, so who knows, maybe I’ll really end up making a new friend. :)

Tonight, I’m going to a new Meetup group event at a church that’s about 35 minutes away. I went to a comedy night with a few people from this group last week and had a blast, so I’m looking forward to meeting even more new people.

I still do think about the ex and him with the new woman from time to time. Whenever my mind starts drifting that way and I start feeling sad, I’d remind myself that he has deep issues and is not willing to change (or even acknowledge that he needs to change), so whatever issues he and I had will surface with this new relationship in due time. He is still on the merry-go-around, while I have jumped off the ride.
- on November 13, 2009 at 6:38 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
  
  Kudos, FootballGirl, way to go! :) I love how you build your life whilst allowing your grief. I remember that at some point in the grieving process, I started to think there is some beauty in all this sadness also. Because it brings us to new places, and opens up new worlds for us to conquer.
  - on November 13, 2009 at 7:50 pm | Log in to Reply FootballGirl
    
    Thank you, GR! That’s exactly what my therapist said – I’m moving on while allowing myself to grieve and feel the sadness, pain, and anger. I’m not suppressing these emotions. It has been an incredibly tough past few months going through all this. I’d often kick and scream and become frustrated because of the pain I feel, but I know deep down I’m doing what’s best and most healthy for myself in the long run. I can’t wait to get through this.
    - on November 14, 2009 at 1:01 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
      
      You sound great! So glad that you are dealing with your grief (via therapy) and also going out, having fun and rebuilding your social network. You’re doing exactly what you need to do to get better. You rule!
      - on November 14, 2009 at 3:21 pm | Log in to Reply FootballGirl
        
        Thank you, movingon. I can’t wait for the day to come when I realize that I’m no longer thinking about the ex and the relationship, and I wouldn’t care either way!
- on November 14, 2009 at 12:20 pm | Log in to Reply imhopeful
  
  FBG,
  I am so happy you are doing better. In fact it sounds like you are doing amazing.
  I was concerned about your morning heartache and glad to see you were able to deal with the situation. Nothing worse than facing a new day with an elephant on your chest;).
  I love comedy nights. Laughter is the best medicine.
  Accidentally picked up? Sounds like you have more confidence than you realize. And you made a choice. Good for you.
  I have been recycling a bit myself lately. But feel like I’ve moved from anger to apathy (even though ANGRY rears its ugly head every once in a while).
  - on November 14, 2009 at 3:28 pm | Log in to Reply FootballGirl
    
    imhopeful, thank you so much. There’s still a bit of anxiety feeling when I wake up (heart beating really fast), but at least it’s not a massive heartache like before. I think my heart is starting to heal. (My therapist says heartbreaks are real.)
    
    I’m sorry to hear that you’re recycling. That’s not fun. I’m still going through my anger phase and feel it’s starting to taper off. I’ll be at the apathy stage with you soon enough.
    
    A colleague told me the anger phase is the best phase because you don’t feel as painful, but I disagree. Since anger and sadness are two sides of the same coin, I often find sadness seeping in after I feel angry. Do you have similar experience?
    - on November 15, 2009 at 11:41 am | Log in to Reply imhopeful
      
      Hi FBG,
      Yes I do. I find anger to be exhausting and the sadness creeps back in. I agree that heartbreaks are real. I know what you mean about the heart beating fast, that feeling of dread and pressure. It is the worst.
      I have to say things to myself sometimes to manage the feeling. Take deep cleansing breaths and think, “It doesn’t matter,” or “Don’t give up a day before the miracle happens.” Not sure what my miracle is going to be. I will know it when I see it.
      Just concentrating on me right now and building my life. I hope your sadness melts away soon. We just have to keep working and give it time.
      - on November 15, 2009 at 10:04 pm | Log in to Reply FootballGirl
        
        imhopeful, I’m glad that you are focusing on you, building your life, and being good to yourself. It is a tough process and I do hope that the sadness (and anger) will go away for all of us soon. We have to keep reminding ourselves that we are doing the absolutely healthy thing by going through this difficult process. The new outlook we’ll have on life and relationships at the end of this will be very rewarding!
on November 13, 2009 at 11:31 pm | Log in to Reply teacherjacket

Hmm. I’m not having a great day. It was beautiful out, sunny and windy. I have so much work to do. I make art and I have a craft fair tomorrow. I’ve been missing him so much today. I hate how that sounds. But I miss him. Our relationship didn’t end in a hateful way. He didn’t lie to me or cheat on me. He is not a bad guy. So on a regular day, I just miss hanging out with him. I loved him.

Mostly right now I wonder what he is up to. If he misses me. How he feels about his life now.

I have to get back to work… I really don’t feel like it.
- on November 15, 2009 at 12:03 pm | Log in to Reply KWriting
  
  Not all relationships end “badly” and not all exes are bananaheads. But it still hurts. I’m sorry for your pain. Keep honoring your feelings about the end of your relationship by allowing them to come. As they come, they will go. Eventually you will feel better if you work through the grief process. Even when the ex is not a bad or screwed up person, the relationship inventory, the journaling, exploring old and new interests, and all the other stuff that Susan recommends here and in her book are of great help. It’s about grieving a break relationship, regardless of the kind of relationship it was.
  Wishing you strength and healing, Kathy
on November 14, 2009 at 7:02 am | Log in to Reply greenroses73

I am curious to know what you guys in the U.S. consider “dating”. I think Rhea had a similar question a while ago but it was unanswered.
I’m not sure because we in Europe don’t use the word “dating” in the same way I guess (say, we go out with someone, to a few drinks and the cinema, is that already “dating” in the U.S.?) We’d say we have a date for tonight, but not consider it “dating” until we really start seeing them and then it eventually becomes a relationship.
Also, I think the “becoming exclusive” expression is something I have not heard over here, but a few times on the blog.
Just curious :-)
- on November 14, 2009 at 9:01 am | Log in to Reply Susan J. Elliott
  
  GR,
  
  Here you can go out on a date with a person (as you said maybe out to eat and to see a movie) and then they might ask you out on a second date, third etc. Or they might be someone you see every couple of weeks.
  
  If you see someone once, it’s a date. If it’s more than once or twice, but not a relationship, it’s “dating.” Some people say “I’m seeing someone” meaning different things to different people.
  
  And you might be (and probably are) “dating” more than one person.
  
  As you move on you decide to move toward a relationship which is exclusive. (usually). The whole “boyfriend/girlfriend” thing.
  - on November 14, 2009 at 12:16 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
    
    Thanks for the explanation, Susan. How are you doing?
  - on November 14, 2009 at 12:45 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
    
    Yeah exactly. Dating to me is casual, fun, “getting to know you” time. I never go on more than three dates with any guy that I don’t see potential with. There are times I have dated a few people but I’ve never in my life slept with more than one person at a time. If I make it to, say, date 5 with someone, it means I’m pretty interested.
    - on November 14, 2009 at 12:53 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
      
      I see. I guess when we over here say “dating”, it’s more of an advanced stage already, which is why it usually is already ‘exclusive’ by definition.
      - on November 14, 2009 at 12:57 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
        
        Gotcha. Yeah it’s different everywhere, and also from person to person. Like the phrase “hooking up” has meant at least 3 different things to people I’ve asked here. So I don’t use that term at all.
    - on November 14, 2009 at 1:01 pm | Log in to Reply Rhea
      
      For me this dating discussion is interesting. I have never dated anyone I dont have a romantic interest in. To date, for me is to say I am looking for a romantic relationsship. If I am not interested I spend my time doing other things. Where a date takes me is another story, but for me, 99% of the times it was the beginning of a relationsship. So I havent dated much. Then the expression to be exclusive doenst really exist in my mind as I take it for granted. Or , I dont date if I am not single, and I dont want to date people who are not ( I domt want to date someone who are dating others/sleeping with others) I might be called a “serial monogamist” as so many in hour time.
      - on November 14, 2009 at 1:05 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
        
        Rhea,
        What I personally like about dating is that it gets me out there, meeting new people and testing the waters. I feel like I have learned something more about myself from every guy I have dated, whether it’s realizing a new quality I might like or discovering another dealbreaker. Dating gives me a bigger perspective on what it is I’m looking for. Some things I thought were appealing turned out not to be, and vice versa. Things I wouldn’t have known had I not dated.
      - on November 14, 2009 at 1:17 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
        
        I see what you mean Rhea. I think there is a cultural difference here. Speaking for myself, it’s more of a thing that happens without planning (ie, I am not saying that I am now going to “go on dates”, ie if I meet someone I like I’d surely go out with them, but I wouldn’t plan it). I have been on some dates that did not turn into relationships, but usually I had *some* romantic interest or curiosity in the man. And if not, I’d rather say “I go out with a friend tonight” and not speak of dating. :)
        Also I’m not sure about the added value of “dating in order to learn”. I can understand that each experience teaches you something, but I’d rather not go out with too many different guys. But maybe that’s because I’ve already had my share of affairs and bananaheads :)
        
        on November 14, 2009 at 1:37 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
        
        Thinking about it, I can remember one particular “date” I had years ago with a guy that I’d met in a park. He was rollerblading and seemed quite nice. So he took me out to dinner in a restaurant. Gosh, it was terrible, I really had to force myself to make it through the evening.
        And another time, a guy I knew since a while invited me to dinner in his flat. It was Valentine’s day and we both joked that we had noone to celebrate it with. It was totally a fun evening, we had wine and laughed etc, but since he signaled that he could think of more, I pulled the breaks.
        So, yes, some single “dates” here and there, but no dating for the sake of it. I’m too much of a romantic for that I guess :)
        
        on November 14, 2009 at 1:44 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
        
        To each their own :) Some people hate dating, and so they shouldn’t do it. Others, like me, love it and find it fun.
        
        I have some friends who are serial monogamists, some who are single for long stretches and then in another long-term relationship, some who date up a storm, some who date for fun and then eventually settle down with one.
        
        It’s all about what you like.
        
        on November 14, 2009 at 1:47 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
        
        Oh, I like dating too, but only with those that I find interesting in the first place ;)
        
        on November 14, 2009 at 1:48 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
        
        I don’t date guys who I don’t find interesting or appealing in some way either lol that would kind of suck.
        
        on November 14, 2009 at 1:54 pm greenroses73
        
        Then maybe we Europeans and you from the U.S. mean the same by using different words ;)
        
        on November 14, 2009 at 2:16 pm greenroses73
        
        Also I’m a bit “all or nothing” I guess. If I find someone interesting, then it’s usually *very* interesting or not at all. Which brings me back to the initial romantic interest when going out on more than just 2 dates with the same person :)
        
        on November 14, 2009 at 1:47 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
        
        Also I don’t think that dating has anything to do with being a romantic. I am a total romantic but I can enjoy going out and having fun new experiences when I am single.
        
        on November 14, 2009 at 1:51 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
        
        If it’s fun, then I don’t see a problem ;) My reference to “being romantic” is more re. those people who date just for the sake of it (and I mean more than just one night). That’s what I find, uhm, not so romantic.
        
        on November 14, 2009 at 1:53 pm movingon11
        
        Haha yeah I hear ya. Like those who date any guy who ever asks? I couldn’t do that. There are many people I don’t want to spend five minutes with, let alone engage for a whole dinner.
on November 14, 2009 at 12:17 pm | Log in to Reply Rhea

Susan, GR is right. I did have questions around dating awhile ago but it was unanswered so I would like to take the chance to make some follow up questions on Gr . I recall having seen you saying things like “when I was dating”, then adressing your years in between marriages and that did confuse me. So I wonder, are you considered bachelors as long as not married even if you are living in a comitted longterm relationsship ? And/Or what status has a non married spouse ?
- on November 14, 2009 at 12:57 pm | Log in to Reply KWriting
  
  Rhea,
  
  Bachelor is a term for men that implies a man is single and available to go out on dates (not in a committed relationship).
  
  Single, available or unattached means a man or a woman is not in a committed relationship and may be dating one or more people casually (or not going out on dates with anyone at the moment).
  
  Someone might also say they are single but “taken” or “attached” or “unavailable”, implying that they are not married but they are in a committed relationship or dating just one person exclusively.
  
  “Dating” can mean a host of things. As a general comment about the past (such as between marriages), one might say “when I was dating” to refer to the period of time when they were going out on dates, meeting new people and even to a series of relationships they had that ended. In present time, if I were to say “I’m dating”, I would mean that I am meeting new people, going out on dates (dinner, movies, etc). This could mean dates with one person and it’s not serious (yet), or with different people. Dating in the present tense generally refers to the time a person spends getting to know one or more people before anything serious has developed.
  
  Some people say “dating exclusively” to mean that they may not yet be serious with one person, but they are committed to only going out with one particular person until they either decide it’s not going to work long term, or they commit to building a long-term relationship together.
  
  Nowadays, people often use the term “partnered” to refer to their being in a long-term, committed relationship without marriage.
  
  Confusing or clarifying? :-)
  
  Other English speakers may have more to add or wish to revise my explanation of these terms.
  - on November 14, 2009 at 2:08 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
    
    “Some people say “dating exclusively” to mean that they may not yet be serious with one person, but they are committed to only going out with one particular person until they either decide it’s not going to work long term, or they commit to building a long-term relationship together.”
    That sounds pretty practical actually. I remember a guy asking me “what is this, what are we having now, are we together, is this a relationship or not?”.
    Well, I guess we were “dating exclusively” at that point. But had I used these words, he’d probably looked at me as if I was from the planet Mars lol. Yeah, semantics.
  - on November 15, 2009 at 5:32 am | Log in to Reply jco7
    
    This is interesting. Living “over here” I’m familiar with Greenroses’ interpretation of dating.
    
    Perhaps there’s a more casual attitude to dating in the US (and I think that’s a good thing). Me and my friends don’t really talk about “dating” – it’s more like you meet someone and decide whether to have a relationship or not…
    
    I’ve done very little dating, and almost all my dates have turned into relationships pretty fast. I’ve actually not been single much, so now that I am, I’m feeling completely lost. It’s only been 2 months since my break up, so I’m definitely not interested in dating at all, but I am thinking there’ll come a day when I’d like to meet someone. And I’ve no idea how to do that!
    
    People on this blog talk about “starting to date again” as if it’s something you can just make happen, and I’m wondering how you do it? where do you meet these guys, and how do you put yourself out there? I mean, where do you even meet eligible men/women?
on November 14, 2009 at 8:39 pm | Log in to Reply George In June

I watched Vanilla Sky with Tom Cruise and the incredibly wonderful Penelope Cruz last night. I’d seen it when it came out and thought it was good, but was really affected by it last night and it was like a completely different movie to me. I didn’t notice any of this the first time I saw it, but there was a lot to take away from it regarding karma and relationships, particularly how they begin. I think that good relationships have a good beginning to them, and they stay good. The character played by Penelope kind of reminded me of my ex, which added a “dimension” to the watching experience that wasn’t there before either. Its really interesting going back and watching movies you saw at a different time in your life, how there’s more or different meaning and new insight, which characters you relate to, etc. It shows that we continually change. Is life this slow process of awakening such that we are most awake the day we die? Perhaps and perhaps not.

It got mixed reviews from the critics and is based on what is supposed to be the much better Open Your Eyes, also starring Penelope Cruz, so I added that to my netflix list.
- on November 14, 2009 at 11:38 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
  
  George,
  That movie reminds me of my ex too. I really didn’t care for it when I saw it in theaters but he was obsessed it, so I watched it again later, through his eyes, and grew fond of it. He also used to tell me, a lot, “that smile is going to be the end of me.”
  
  It’s a heavy flick, that’s for sure. I think you will like the Spanish version. In some ways it is better.
  - on November 15, 2009 at 4:10 am | Log in to Reply George In June
    
    and another thing. Tom and Penelope had a three-year relationship after they met while filming this movie. In the movie there was a hint of an incredible romance that never came to be, and may have came to be in real life, but ended in a way that made it seem like it just fizzled out. Too much time apart working, the stereotypical hollywood relationship story, etc. A weird juxtaposition.
    - on November 15, 2009 at 7:07 am | Log in to Reply greenroses73
      
      Hi George,
      
      I see this phenomenon with many movies, also the ones I am watching for the first time (ie, I think I would have seen them differently a while ago). It’s fascinating to see that change, but I think it’s a good thing. For instance, the dramatic and complicated element of relationships used to be interesting to me, now it mainly bores me.
      - on November 15, 2009 at 5:54 pm | Log in to Reply George In June
        
        its time to return this movie!!!
        
        on November 15, 2009 at 6:19 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
        
        Step away from the DVD!…;)
        
        on November 15, 2009 at 7:04 pm | Log in to Reply George In June
        
        LOL :)
on November 15, 2009 at 12:33 am | Log in to Reply engineer101

This was my first weekend day solo in a looong time. I pretty much trudged through it with moments of sadness, and am proud of myself for maintaining no contact or tapping into any of those Facey-Spacey ways to look back at an ex.

Two thoughts came to mind today. 1- My ex recently turned a roll of toilet paper around on the holder because he didn’t like the way I put it on. Fercryinoutloud, he TURNED A ROLL OF TOILET PAPER AROUND. Who spends time doing something like that?? 2 – I had my iPod on and went for a trail run. What a damn blast, and I was reintroduced to the music I like. I HAD FORGOTTEN THE MUSIC I LIKED.

YES, I’M WRITING IN CAPS BECAUSE I’M SHOUTING AT MYSELF FOR BEING A BIT OF A DOLT.

… jeeesh …
- on November 15, 2009 at 1:09 am | Log in to Reply lele4
  
  LOL, you’re not a dolt… (and don’t take it personally that he turned the toilet paper roll around. It drives me crazy if the loose sheet rolls towards the wall. In order to suit my personal TP needs, the loose sheet has to roll towards me, otherwise I will turn the roll. I’ve turned the roll in other people’s houses {long ago in a boundary-less galaxy far far away} and I turn it at work.)
  
  Rediscovering music is such a fabulous phenomenon. The person who came up with the idea for iPod should be cannonized for sainthood. It’s wonderful. :)
  - on November 15, 2009 at 2:22 pm | Log in to Reply engineer101
    
    The TP loose sheet WAS in front (that’s how I was raised, daggumit). I think because I put it on, it would be wrong no matter what. In hindsight I should have left the fresh roll in the closet and fed him lots of bran.
    
    When you remember this kinda stuff about an ex, you can’t help but laugh out loud. My dogs think I’m suffering a breakdown. I have no idea what dredged up these memories – maybe the relationship inventory stuff I’m doing (hard work!).
    
    … and have you heard the Chesney – Matthews duet “I’m Alive”? Good stuff and now on the iPod.
    - on November 15, 2009 at 2:49 pm | Log in to Reply lele4
      
      No, I haven’t heard that one, but yeah… “music has the charms to calm the savage breast”… I have recently gotten into Ray LaMontagne and some older Coldplay. Good stuff.
      
      “In hindsight I should have left the fresh roll in the closet and fed him lots of bran.” LOL I love that!!
      
      I remember when I was first separated from my ex husband I used to have bursts of memory like that. I can remember journaling that it was like a sudden burst of klieg lights. It was pretty intense at times. I’d think, “holy crap! How did I let THAT get past me?” or, “I’d totally forgotten about that”. It felt like standing in a darkened room and you start getting portions of a entire wall sized mural illuminated one part at a time. You can’t see what the mural is going to be, but you get more and more over time. It takes a while before you finally get to see the gist of the whole picture, but I finally got a lot of it.
      
      Keep that TP on the roll, chickie. :)
on November 15, 2009 at 2:14 am | Log in to Reply lele4

Alright folks, here’s my situation. It’s been simmering for a good long while (3 or 4 yrs), but I want to get some of this out of my head.

My best and most loved friend treats me like a near non-entity when her husband is home or it’s a time when he could be coming home or when she could go see him… When he’s at work, she calls me and wants to get together (sometimes). If he’s going to be home for any amount of time, even to take a nap, she wants to be there. If there’s a chance that he might lose an eyelash in her direction, she wants to witness it. (I’m being a mite facetious there.) However much time he has off, I don’t hear from her. She rarely calls, she NEVER has invited me over while he’s been home. She doesn’t want to meet for lunch, don’t ask about seeing a movie… She wants her hubby time. I’ve been there when he’s come home at times. He’s come in for a few minutes then had to leave. We’ve seen each other at a store and stopped and spoke like humans. We’re not best buddies, but we’re decent to each other. But you can feel the palpable tension coming off of her. I feel like I’m supposed to apparate out of there. I don’t get the tension from him. I only feel the tension from her.

So, on one hand I know that she loves him and wants to spend what little time they have together with each other exclusively… but I also know that if she had her way, she’d live right snuggled up between his butt cheeks.

It kind of drives me crazy. When he’s home she rarely will answer her phone. She’ll call me back (sometimes) when he’s asleep or going out to the store. She does her children similarly, though not quite as badly.

We’ve known each other for 24 years. We’ve been very best friends for 11 years now and we had exclusive rights to each other’s lives. We’ve confided and laughed and looked out for each other… unless there was a man in her life. She tends to get rather diaphanous when a man is in the situation.

For a long time my extremely codependent nature ruled. I did my best to “help” and “advise”. When she didn’t do the things that I thought were best for her it would make me so freaking ANGRY. I could SEE so clearly how everything would be FINE if she would just do what I was telling her. (Oh how codependent I was.) Everything came to critical mass when she got married. I freaked out over the circumstances and the fact that I knew that when she got married that there was a good chance she would disappear. She didn’t totally, but as time has gone on these spates get more and more grating.

I made a conscious decision when she married that I was going to change my way of thinking. That I didn’t live her life and if it was a mistake, it was her mistake to make. She was my friend and I loved her and I wasn’t willing to make a permanent break. I listen to her when she gnashes her teeth about what he’s doing online. I listen when she’s losing sleep over what he’s doing when she’s not home. I don’t rush to advise. I mind my own business and try to be supportive. I don’t trash talk him. I try to give him the benefit of the doubt, since I don’t know what he’s doing, either.

I know that they don’t have a lot of time together and that she wants to spend as much time with him as she can, when she can. I logically get that… but on the other hand it drives me completely ape s**t. I don’t know if it’s because I’m still codpendent or if it’s because that is simply over the top behavior. I try to think about my other friends who are married. Now granted, I didn’t get pissed off at my other friends when their future husbands proposed after a few weeks of living together, and tell them that it was “stupid”. They also didn’t get married and not tell me until nearly a week later, either. They had an online relationship for about a year, he moved here and lived with her for 3 weeks and then proposes and they get married 3 days later. So, yeah.. I know that I wasn’t the most supportive thing in the world at that point, but jeez louise… She didn’t KNOW the guy. They hadn’t had a fight. They’d not heard each other fart by that point. That’s still the phase when you nearly wrench your neck to keep them from smelling your morning breath. How can you know someone before you KNOW them? Yes, you can fall in love with someone quickly, but after they got married she finds out that he’s still on dating sites. That he doesn’t want his family to know that he’s married, yet. That he’s going to move his kids here when he can (she’s already raised all of hers).

This agitates every abandonment issue in my entire being. I feel like a second class citizen, an after thought, a time filler until he gets home. I’ve talked to her about this, but it confuses her. This is just how people are. When you’re married, you want to spend more time with your spouse than other people and the world disappears when they’re around. She says that she wouldn’t be hurt if the shoe was on the other foot and I did her that way. She’d expect that I’d rather be with my man.

I’m simply not that way. Whenever I’ve been in a relationship, he had to know that she was my best friend and she was here to stay. Her time and attention was important to me and I value her perspective, sense of humor and her as a person. I invited her out with us and if she called while we were out (if my phone was on) I answered. I invited him to go with me to her house when I was going… she was included. I’m excluded from their relationship. (Though I guess calling the idea of them getting married “stupid” isn’t the way to worm my way into his good graces.) In a lot of ways she’s been a very good friend to me… unless she had a man.

I’m trying to decide if I can keep taking it. I don’t want to completely lose the friendship, but I feel like I’m doing a majority of the work for it at this point. I would miss her like a limb… I mean, we lived out of each other’s front pockets for years, so maybe it’s just jealousy. Maybe I’m just jealous that he took my place. I don’t know. I just know that this is hurting worse and worse. I feel resentful and angry. I feel slighted and the worst thing about it is… I don’t know if I have a right to. Maybe it’s the thing to do. You get married and you cleave to your husband to the exclusion of everyone else, including your best friend.

Phooossshhh! I just had to get that out of my brain!
- on November 15, 2009 at 7:29 am | Log in to Reply greenroses73
  
  Lele,
  
  Have you ever talked with your friend about your feelings? I thought that when I read the last paragraph about how you would miss her but try to figure out whether you can take this any longer, and that maybe you are jealous but thinking that you contribute more to the relationship, that it makes you angry etc.
  
  Have you shared these things with her?
  
  I can relate that it would be painful for you to have her out of your life completely, but at the end of the day it’s the same as with romantic relationships: does this person add to my life or take away? There will always be areas of misunderstanding etc (as with any relationship), but I guess you will have to decide what your bottom line is.
  
  She is who she is and you will never change her. I understand that this kind of behaviour can be irritating, and to me she sounds “over the top” also, at least from how you portrayed her. BUT: the question is, can you live with this and do you value her enough to accept it? Or is it unacceptable?
  
  It’s hurtful when long-term friendships fall apart. But sometimes it is necessary to draw a line and make room for whoever and whatever supports the “evolution” of your own life, so to speak.
  - on November 15, 2009 at 10:51 am | Log in to Reply lele4
    
    Hey GR,
    
    Yes, we’ve discussed this on several occasions. She just simply can’t conceive of being available to anyone but her husband when he’s around. She’d like the same thing from him, but he pretty much lives his life. When he’s off of work he gets calls from his friends. He will occasionally go over to his friends house and hang out for “guy time”. He usually tries to make that when she’s going to be at work, but there are occasions when he has gone out while she was home. She feels bad that it hurts my feelings, but she doesn’t want to change.
    
    I know that I’m probably jealous. I may still be codependent about things. I know that it flares up all sorts of abandonment feelings, so there’s that element to things. You’re right, though. I do have to figure out my bottom lines on this thing.
    
    I respect the fact that they’re married and that since they don’t have a lot of time that she wants to spend it with him, I just have to figure out how much I’m willing to deal with. The thing that set me off this time, though, is that I’d called her one day (I didn’t know if he was working or not. If I know that he’s home I don’t call anymore. I’ve learned at least that much.) and she answered with, “I might have a few minutes before (her husband) gets home, so I can talk for a little bit.” We talked for a little while, and then she breaks in and says in this rapid voice, “I see (husband) coming in”. Meaning that since he was pulling into the parking lot, she needed to get off the phone. I know that there was information that she was going to want when he got home, in relation to his job… but it was just one more thing. I sometimes feel like she’s calling me like she would an ex boyfriend or something. I wouldn’t be suprised if she whispered into the phone sometime, “I told you never to call me here”. It feels like when he’s there things are to be covert. If she calls it’s when he’s sleeping, when he’s away from the house and if he wakes or comes home, she’s rushing to get off the phone. That just feels weird.
    
    I would miss her terribly. We’ve been through so much and I love her dearly. I love our laughter and she’s got such a great sense of humor. I am friendly with her mom and brother and all of her kids. I wish I knew if it was ME who was being unreasonable. Although, in that case I’d have to decide if I was willing to change, accept or leave, just the same as I have to decide if I can try to accept it or leave now. She’s made it clear that she’s not willing to change.
    - on November 15, 2009 at 11:59 am | Log in to Reply imhopeful
      
      Hi lele,
      I am sorry you are going through this. It sounds to me like your friend is insecure. Way insecure. To the point she is willing to risk your friendship over the husband.
      I would say you were right to have your concerns about the marriage. I also think you were right to keep them to yourself.
      I don’t think she is treating you well. Not sure she deserves you anymore.
      I agree with Green. Look at this friendship like you would a romantic relationship. Are you getting what you need? Doesn’t sound like it. The road can only be one-way for so long. And you can only take the hurt for so long.
      Sounds like she invites drama into her life. Not sure you need that with what you are going through.
      Who knows what will happen in the long run. Just make sure you protect yourself now from more hurt. Boundaries are important. You could set some for your relationship with her. I think it might give you some clarity.
      - on November 15, 2009 at 1:11 pm | Log in to Reply lele4
        
        Imhopeful, thank you for your thoughts. I would miss her like crazy if I decided to cut ties, but I’m going to have to do something. I hate feeling like this. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong. I don’t seem to be able to change this. They’ve been married for several years now and I don’t seem to be feeling any better about it.
        
        It helps to get it out and see other people’s perspective, though.
        
        While I was making breakfast it hit me… I want an Oprah and Gayle type of relationship. lol I want that unshakable thing that no one can come between us. Holy SMOKE! I just had a monster of an AHA moment. The sentence, “be to yourself what you want from others” just popped into my head. Maybe I need to be my own unshakable friend. Maybe I need to know that I am always there for myself. Holy crow!
        
        on November 16, 2009 at 7:10 am | Log in to Reply imhopeful
        
        I like your Aha moment. I may borrow it. It is a great thought to be your own best friend. While others in our life are important we have to treat ourselves with kindness and respect first. Good one!
    - on November 15, 2009 at 2:42 pm | Log in to Reply Phoenix Rising
      
      lele4
      I think that sometimes two people (i.e. your friend & husband) get wrapped up in their own little world and nothing and no one else matters. If they do that’s their thing and anything you want or need doesnt matter – you are on the outside. You are not privvy to the inner workings of their relationship and I know that sucks but it seems like your friend has set her priority list. The two of them seem to exisit in this world of their own making – it sounds a little dysfunctional and a little controlling – but it’s the world they have chosen. You unfortunatley are on the outside looking in and there’s nothing you can do.
      
      I really like what you wrote below about being to yourself what you want from others. I think that’s very important and healthy. I dont think you dismiss this relationship but you do what you need to do to take care of yourself. Maybe try and invest in some new relationships. Some that welcome you in rather than push you aside when their person of choice shows up.
      
      The last thing we need is to lay out a welcome mat on our doorstep to rejection. Why welcome that in? You have much better things to do with your day! :)
      - on November 15, 2009 at 2:59 pm | Log in to Reply lele4
        
        PR, Yeah, I have learned that she simply wants to be a dingleberry that’s buried in his butt and that she’s fine with that. I don’t have the same m.o. and I can respect her decision. I’ve got some thought to put into things, especially the fact that it’s starting to feel like I’m doing a majority of the work to maintain our relationship.
        Am I willing to sit around and wait for what is starting to feel like the crumbs of her time?
        
        I have a quiet fear that if I didn’t call that she’d just let this friendship go like she’s done other, not quite as tight friends. Well maybe it’s time to face my fears. I’m working on it, though. Awareness is one of the first steps.
- on November 15, 2009 at 2:46 pm | Log in to Reply engineer101
  
  Lele,
  
  I had a similar situation with a best friend I had for years … I was heartbroken to learn through a mutual acquaintance that she was getting married – didn’t even tell me directly. We were close friends & confidants, so it stung. I attended the wedding, and found she made it more of a photo op than integrating many of her closest friends. The maid of honor looked like a model, and none of us (she had a handful of close friends) even knew who she was. It was strange & that was the last time I spoke with her. :-(
  
  On the flip side, one of my sisters goes ape $hit if I call my dogs when I’m on the phone with her. It is unacceptable behavior to her, and she’ll hang up. Hey it’s her gig, so if I’m distracted when she calls, I’ll simply ring her back later. No big deal, we figured out something that works.
  
  Anyway, I doubt this guy really took your place. It’s impossible. I think she’s struggling with having made a big decision (to get married so quickly) with some of the evidence that’s coming to light. She’ll figure it out, but, yes you need to be honest to yourself about if you can tolerate the current behavior in the interim.
  
  And be honest with her, whatever your decision.
  - on November 15, 2009 at 3:01 pm | Log in to Reply lele4
    
    Engineer, I appreciate your perspective. I love her and I enjoy our time together. I’ll figure it out. I’m a smart girl. It’s one of the qualities I like most about myself. That and I’m tough. Tough as nails. ;)
    - on November 15, 2009 at 4:43 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
      
      Lele,
      
      I have been through a similar situation recently, with a friend I’ve had for half my life. We’ve been super close in the past, but she is totally someone who gets a new boyfriend and forgets I exist or wants to spend all her time with him or always wants him to come along, etc. This has happened time and time together since we were teenagers.
      
      After our breakups, we got close again. She was really there for me, as I was for her. It felt like we were rekindling on some level what had been lost for a time, and it felt great. I thought we could move forward from there.
      
      But then, what do you know, she gets into another serious relationship three months after her split, and basically falls off the face of the earth again. It’s consistent with what she’s always done, but it really hurt my feelings because this time I thought it might be different. It was sheer denial, naturally, as nothing had changed at all.
      
      Except for me, and there’s the rub.
      
      When she did the same ole thing and then popped back into my life anxious to speak to me out of the blue (it always has to be on her terms it seems), I was not warm to her advances. So in a sense, I had changed the rules. She seemed taken aback and U haven’t heard from or reached out to her since.
      
      I think the important thing is for you to decide what you can tolerate from this friendship. It sounds similar to me because I think you are getting healthier, while she is not, and that makes it tricky to maintain the same degree of closeness.
      
      I do miss her, absolutely, but then I remind myself that being close to her again will only lead to more pain. I have zero reason to think or expect otherwise. There are many good qualities about her and things I will miss, but at the end of the day, she brings drama/sparks abandonment issues in my life, and I now have other friends who don’t in the slightest.
      
      So I decided to walk away. It’s possible we may talk again here and there, but I made the decision not to be close with her again. It is ultimately not healthy for me to do so.
      
      You need to decide your bottom line as well. Good luck — I know it sucks.
      - on November 15, 2009 at 5:56 pm | Log in to Reply lele4
        
        Thanks movingon. Yeah, it does suck, and the daily to weekly emotional grating is starting to leave a scar. :(
        
        I went out and did some fantasy shopping today. Went to Lowes and daydreamed about all the appliances, lighting and doors I’d buy. I went fantasy house hunting yesterday and walked around some model homes. It was pretty fun. I’m working on being a better friend to myself and hopefully that will parlay into better friendships with others. I’d always felt like I’d been very loyal to friends, therefore they’d be loyal to me… but maybe it’s that I have to be loyal to myself, first.
        
        on November 15, 2009 at 6:10 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
        
        “I’m working on being a better friend to myself and hopefully that will parlay into better friendships with others.”
        
        I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that it does. Functional, happy people make for functional, happy relationships. I heard once that a relationship is only as healthy as the least-healthy person in it, and I think that’s dead on.
        
        You need to treat yourself like your best friend, the ideal mother, the significant other of your dreams, etc. You deserve nothing less.
        
        I’m in kind of a nostalgic mood lately myself. An old friend got back in touch recently and it feels good to have that back. I know that closure doesn’t come from other people, but sometimes it’s preferable, to me, to have things on pleasant terms than on an angry, ugly final note. I know that there are some people I simply cannot be close to, but on a casual basis, it works okay.
        
        Then there’s the toxic people, which I wouldn’t let back near me under any circumstance (my dad, my ex, etc). Most people do not fall into this extreme of a category though.
        
        on November 15, 2009 at 11:34 pm | Log in to Reply lele4
        
        Thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate it. Coming here helps me so much. I’m grateful for the consideration and support.
on November 15, 2009 at 9:19 am | Log in to Reply mphotogirl

I am just curious if anyone else experienced this. Is it possible to still be in love or love someone and really just not like them? Lately I am feeling that way. I feel like I still love the ex, but I don’t think I like him at all. Is it part of the process? Or could it be that I still haven’t completely let go so I am still holding on to the fantasy. I don’t know I am confused by these feelings.

Sometimes I think that if I were with someone else he wouldn’t take up the space in my head, I guess I am just so sick of him and my feelings already.
- on November 15, 2009 at 10:57 am | Log in to Reply lele4
  
  Photogirl,
  
  My intuition says that you’re still attracted to the energy that your old water level was at. I’ve never experienced loving someone I didn’t like, so I can’t speak to that, but it would seem to me that if you love someone, you love them. You may not like everything they do, but you love them. If you met him as a stranger on the street would you like him and the answer was “no”, then you need to get your water meter out…
  
  That’s just my humble opinion, though. :)
- on November 15, 2009 at 1:28 pm | Log in to Reply musingmirella
  
  I’ve felt a bit like that. In that I’ve still felt very attached to the ex and bonded to him in a way, but also felt strong dislike towards him. I’ve had so many different confusing feelings over the course of this breakup though – I’ve definitely felt both love and dislike at different times separately as well. I think that when you’ve loved someone for years, often you do feel attached to them even when you’re angry and want them out of your life – I’m struggling at the moment with trying to work out how to feel less attached.
  - on November 15, 2009 at 2:46 pm | Log in to Reply KWriting
    
    I’ve felt this way about friends, now ex-friends, in the past. When I did my life inventory, I discovered (and gradually let it sink in as I made changes to the landscape of my life) that feeling “love” for someone I don’t genuinely even like, goes all the way back to loving caregivers who were often quite mean to me. These mixed feelings of “I don’t like him/her, but I love him/her” are very possibly about some unfinished business from the past. Sometimes I don’t like my kids’ or my husband’s choices or actions and I still love them. But I can no longer love or be in love with someone I don’t even like as a person. Liking someone as a person is a prerequisite to me loving them now. To “love” them but not like them is too incongruent for me. Loving people I didn’t like in the past was part of being a victim, even a martyr. If you feel that, it may signal some lingering issue like codependency. In some way, it’s at least a little bit masochistic, even.
    - on November 15, 2009 at 2:50 pm | Log in to Reply KWriting
      
      Also, mphotogirl, it may be part of your process of letting him go–to admit to yourself first that you don’t even really like him. To some degree, there is a choice in whether or not you will even continue to love him. Maybe what you feel about him is disappointment and sadness that he didn’t turn out to be who you thought he was. Those are real feelings, but they aren’t love. Maybe it would be helpful to sort out and re-identify/re-label your feelings. Most of us mislabel our feelings at the beginning and end of a relationship. Sometimes we even interpret fear/excitement/butterflies as love because that is what we identified with love somewhere in our lives. Just some thoughts…
    - on November 15, 2009 at 2:51 pm | Log in to Reply engineer101
      
      Holy cow do I think KWriting’s response is right on the money. I’m guilty of loving-but-not-really-liking and the incongruousness of it all demands some more review. It ain’t right.
    - on November 15, 2009 at 4:49 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
      
      “I discovered (and gradually let it sink in as I made changes to the landscape of my life) that feeling “love” for someone I don’t genuinely even like, goes all the way back to loving caregivers who were often quite mean to me.”
      
      Wow I never thought about it like that, but you’re exactly right. I’ve had countless friends in my life that I loved but didn’t like, and my ex absolutely fit the bill too. There really wasn’t much to like at all, but I felt madly in love all the same. Not healthy, clearly.
      
      I did a lot of work on myself and decided that I no longer want people in my life who I don’t like. I also don’t think you can really love someone and not like them. More likely, it’s a sign of projecting fantasies onto a person, not seeing them clearly, or just trying to “win” a conflict from the past.
      
      Screw all that. It’s love + like or nothing at all.
- on November 15, 2009 at 2:47 pm | Log in to Reply Phoenix Rising
  
  mphotogirl
  
  I have felt that way often. So what I do is try and sit define to myself what I think love is. What is real action-able love. Make a list. Does your ex fit anywhere in that list? If not, and I found this myself, then it’s something else I’m feeling. Maybe loyalty, maybe longing for that “soul mate” feeling from someone, maybe feeling lonely, maybe family of origin stuff. Could be lots of things but the good news is that’s its not really love. It’s something else, just gotta figure out what.
  - on November 15, 2009 at 2:52 pm | Log in to Reply KWriting
    
    Phoenix,
    Interesting…we were having very similar thoughts at the same time. ;)
on November 15, 2009 at 4:20 pm | Log in to Reply mphotogirl

Thanks everyone for responding. I really appreciate it. Some very good points to think about.

Out of everyone in my life, interesting he is the only one I feel this way about. There have been others that I have cut out of my life and haven’t felt this way about.

For example I have a cousin who is a freakin maniac.. we were like sisters growing up, but seriously she is one of the biggest energy vampire’s I know. One night she didn’t like something I said and she screamed at me and hung up the phone. I called her back and she ignored me. That night I said that is it …I am done… haven’t spoken to her since. I heard she was really pissed when she had her first baby and I declined to go to the Christening.

Oh well, too bad I wasn’t taking her BS anymore. I certainly wasn’t going to go and give a gift. If she would have reached out early and apologized I would have continued a relationship, but she didn’t.

I am ok with that relationship. I have made peace with it. Yes I still love her she is my cousin but I am really ok with not having a relationship with her, I am ok not liking who she became. It is ok that we aren’t close any longer. I wish her well but she just doesn’t fit in my life anymore.

Everyone else in my life at the moment are the people I do want there. No drama no crap. One of my best friends can be pretty selfish at times and she knows it and we have talked about it. I don’t take her moods personal, I have known her since we were 14. So she rarely in 25 years has hurt my feelings. When it is crisis time with me… she is one of the first people to be here for me.

There are some behaviors from family and friends that I don’t always like, but I do like them and love them.

With my ex the more I see or hear and the more I think about it, I am just not sure if I do even like him. It may be possible that I don’t want to admit to myself that I don’t like him because that would be like saying… “how did you pick him?”
I still feel love for him.. and he can be a very likable guy.. but sometimes I hear stuff and I am just like MORON!!
Or maybe my likes are changing…

Stuff to think about for sure…. thanks.
on November 15, 2009 at 4:29 pm | Log in to Reply mphotogirl

PS.. I also notice that my codependency issues seem to only rear their ugly head when it has to do with my intimate partners, although in my two other long term relationships I didn’t have any of this stuff nearly soo bad. We had pretty good give and takes between us, with both of them.

With friends and family the dynamics have been there for so long between us, I feel we set it up nicely. I definitely feel I get as much as I give with my friends and family.

I seem also to be able to not take things personal with them. But with boyfriends and especially my ex. I take everything personal. Interesting…
- on November 15, 2009 at 8:17 pm | Log in to Reply George In June
  
  I can relate to this. I think the more that there is perceived to be won or lost, the more the traits at the edges of our personalities get magnified. With me, until there’s enough trust to relax and enjoy it, there is insecurity about whether I’m going to get what I need from my partner, and if I get it, insecurity about whether I’m going to lose it. With friends and family the trust is there, the give and take has been established.
on November 15, 2009 at 6:53 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73

Had a pleasant day at the house of my childhood friend – it’s been good to catch up.
She also commented on how well I look, good in shape and that my eyes are shining and I seem free from the past and ready to kick-start new things.
She’s concerned because the ex-ex I shared about a few days ago on here (the one from ages ago) lives not far away from me and I know she’d prefer me to have zero contact, and I have not yet deleted him from FB.
And what do you know?
I come back from that trip today, refreshed and energized, and there is another invitation to join a group he’s created (on FB, related to a shop that he just opened). I always ignore these invitations, and I don’t see why he keeps sending them. Anyways, so I press “ignore” again, and what pops up? The words “I love you” in Turkish. (He does not know the language so must have googled them).
I was dumbstruck. And a little angry. I mean, common dude, that takes it a bit far, no?
I have no idea how this message could pop up once I had ignored the invitation (it was basically the next page), but it did and I totally think I am not going to allow this to mess with my head. But it already does.
So I agree, in most cases it’s better to block these people for good. Have not done it yet. I’m still busy being dumbstruck about this. It’s so silly and thoughtless.
on November 15, 2009 at 7:09 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73

Had a pleasant day at the house of my childhood friend – it’s been good to catch up.
She also commented on how well I look, good in shape and that my eyes are shining and I seem free from the past and ready to kick-start new things.
She’s concerned because the ex-ex I shared about a few days ago on here (the one from ages ago) lives not far away from me and I know she’d prefer me to have zero contact, and I have not yet deleted him from FB.
And what do you know?
I come back from that trip today, refreshed and energized, and there is another invitation to join a group he’s created (on FB, related to a shop that he just opened). I always ignore these invitations, and I don’t see why he keeps sending them. Anyways, so I press ‘ignore’ again, and what pops up? The words ‘I love you’ in Turkish. (He does not know the language so must have googled them).
I was dumbstruck. And a little angry. I mean, common dude, that takes it a bit far, no?
I have no idea how this message could pop up once I had ignored the invitation (it was basically the next page), but it did and I totally think I am not going to allow this to mess with my head. But it already does.
So I agree, in most cases it’s better to block these people for good. Have not done it yet. I’m still busy being dumbstruck about this. It’s so silly and thoughtless.
on November 15, 2009 at 7:12 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73

Susan,
have posted the same message twice, you may delete one of those :) (in comment jail). Thanks
- on November 15, 2009 at 9:41 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
  
  PS: Re. my post, it is an FB fanpage, not group. Apparently that’s not the same.
  - on November 15, 2009 at 10:31 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
    
    Gosh, after some research I found out it was not what I thought, seems to be a programming mistake or what. So guys, if you have read my message, just forget it. Phew :)
on November 16, 2009 at 5:23 pm | Log in to Reply George In June

I had kind of a rough weekend (thanks to Vanilla Sky) and a tough day today so far. I feel like reaching out to my ex. So many things about this time of year remind me of her.
- on November 16, 2009 at 6:43 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
  
  George,
  I’m sorry to hear it. Reach out to us instead. She is a dry well or a concrete wall or whatever analogy works best for you. What do you want to say to her?
  - on November 16, 2009 at 7:40 pm | Log in to Reply George In June
    
    Thanks, I want to tell her that I miss her and that this year is almost over and that we could have been having fun through the summer and into the holiday season together. Why did you send me a text on my birthday and then send me an email three weeks later asking me if I received the text? Was that you who left a voice message on my phone a couple weeks ago? I couldn’t tell if it was you or not, it was from a blocked number. I keep hoping to see the message “What r u doin Curious George?” on my phone. I don’t know how to top last Thanksgiving. They just opened a Bob’s Big Boy nearby like the one we went to near Palm Springs. Why did it have to happen like this?
    - on November 16, 2009 at 8:30 pm | Log in to Reply lasttoknow
      
      “I want to tell her that I miss her and that this year is almost over and that we could have been having fun through the summer and into the holiday season together. Why did you send me a text on my birthday and then send me an email three weeks later asking me if I received the text”
      
      1. No, you could not have been having fun, because she dumped you. Harsh, but true.
      
      2. Why did she text you? Probably because she was feeling lonely and wanted to reach out to give herself an ego-boost. It’s not about you.
      
      I’m telling you these things as they are the best things to tell yourself so that you can push her out of your mind and stay NC. Who cares what she does over the holidays, or why she’s texting you? If she wanted you, she’d be with you. Remind yourself of this, listen to some happy music (like ABBA), and realize you’re better each day you go without contact. I do this – I’ve been NC for over a month – and I’m starting to see he’s not the one for me. Never was. I deserve better, and so do YOU.
      - on November 17, 2009 at 2:54 am | Log in to Reply George In June
        
        Thanks, lasttoknow, I don’t know why she texted me. I’m just feeling awfully lonely and the weekends are worse than the weeks for that. When I am sitting in a movie theater by myself, the only person by themselves, and its a movie theater we used to go to together, I don’t know how to overcome the “less than” feeling that I am missing something. If the answer is spend less time by myself and more time with others, I can do that, but I want to be comfortable by myself without being overcome like this.
    - on November 16, 2009 at 9:55 pm | Log in to Reply engineer101
      
      Listen here George, this is The (Wo)Man with the Yellow Hat. Hang in there, push through this and stay NC.
      
      I’ve been the gal who pinged an ex blah blah. I can ASSURE you it was not about your feelings, but rather a moment I needed a boost. Recently I pinged an old ex and got into a text exchange with him finally professing he still loved me. And what did that mean? A big fat nothing to me, no lie, I was just feeling a little flat and wanted to feel a little better. It probably ruined his night, and for that – and that alone – I am truly sorry.
      
      So in my most recent situation I broke up with a guy I really liked because he was warming a replacement up on the side. I felt heartbroken and betrayed. And I can virtually guarantee if I broke NC he would feel the same way I did with Mr. Text.
      
      Karma, huh?
      
      So stay NC, and find something new and for YOU this Thanksgiving. You deserve it, dammit.
      - on November 17, 2009 at 3:06 am | Log in to Reply George In June
        
        Thanks, engineer, and LOL about the yellow hat! I’ve always like the color yellow, and I still have a monkey stuffed animal named Curious George that I’ve had since I was a little kid. For further consideration.
        
        This year is so different from last year.
    - on November 17, 2009 at 12:09 am | Log in to Reply movingon11
      
      George,
      It sounds to me like a recycling wave. It’s very common and normal, but don’t give it any more weight than it warrants. Feel it, ride it out, and then watch it fade into the backdrop. The holidays are a particularly hard time for people after a breakup, so keep that in mind. This is not about her at all — it’s about being lonely.
      
      If you’re feeling an overwhelmingly strong urge to contact her, I suggest getting out a piece of paper and writing something you miss about her, and then matching it with two mean things she said or did to you. By the end of the list, you won’t want to reach out anymore.
      - on November 17, 2009 at 3:39 am | Log in to Reply George In June
        
        Thanks, movingon, yes, definitely a recycling wave. I can’t believe Thanksgiving is next week. This year seemed to go by so fast. I agree, it is about being lonely. I feel kind of invisible, at work and in my personal life, though not so much detached as unattached. Maybe that a change is coming, and I’m just trying to hold on to that time last year which had a better feeling to it. I need to figure out how to spend time by myself and just enjoy it without feeling like someone or something is missing.
        
        Anyway, I’ll review my relationship inventory, which is similar to what you recommended, that should help.
- on November 16, 2009 at 7:30 pm | Log in to Reply elles101
  
  hello George, I agree with movingon, reach out to us instead. Just don’t act on it, once you’ve got through the odd rough patch you’ll be glad you didn’t. Generally, when you’ve been in touch with them you are reminded very quickly as to why you went NC.
  
  I go through it when I’m stressed, by this time of year do you mean the holiday period?
  - on November 17, 2009 at 3:14 am | Log in to Reply George In June
    
    Thanks, elles, yes, the holiday period. My counselor and I have talked about this quite a bit, its a real issue for a lot of folks. I know, I can just imagine, if I called her, how it would go. She’d be very distant and when I got off the phone I’d feel worse than before I called. Like licking a razor-blade dipped in honey. Ouch!
    
    I made it through today thanks in part to you guys and tomorrow I meet with my counselor, which should get me straightened out for the rest of the week.
    - on November 17, 2009 at 8:04 am | Log in to Reply greenroses73
      
      Hey George,
      
      just read your posts. In addition to others comments and advice: you mentioned that a change may be coming. I think it’s not unusual to be extra-vulnerable in times of change and when things are in a flux. The same happened to me. About half a year (or a bit more) ago, when I was starting to feel all the changes that are happening in me and that I want to discover new worlds, I also had recycling waves, as if one part of me dreaded change and wanted to hold onto the familiar and old. I was making new experiences and then, out of the blue, thought I was missing my ex, or even wanted him to witness what I was experiencing.
      Loneliness can be quite tricky and can lead you to all sorts of self-sabotaging feelings.
      Hang in there. When you have such an urge, do wait. Always wait at least one night. It usually is not such a strong urge on the next day.
      The holiday season and the loneliness you feel are triggering you. Hang in there. This too shall pass.
      PS: A weird thing (that I knew before in my life) happens to me lately (and I was at a similar point as you a while ago, as said). I catch myself being alone without feeling lonely, going through the streets, strolling around, looking through windows of bars etc and watch people there and not feel disconnected. In wish you the same. Also remember that occasional loneliness is very normal and absolutely human nature.
      And you are not the only one alone in a movie theatre, I’m also alone in there, and probably many others on the blog are, so think of them next time you sit in the theatre, smile to yourself and be happy that you found that great seat because there was only ONE left in the middle :)
      Hope you feel better today.
      - on November 17, 2009 at 8:08 am | Log in to Reply greenroses73
        
        That was to say “I wish you the same”
      - on November 17, 2009 at 7:04 pm | Log in to Reply George In June
        
        Hi greenroses, thanks for the reply. Yes, I am feeling extra-vulnerable because I sense a change is coming. Though I must stay focused in the present for now to do my best at work and enjoy the holiday season as best I can.
        
        I like what you wrote about not being alone in the movie theater :) I will remember that next time.
- on November 17, 2009 at 12:03 pm | Log in to Reply taztx
  
  Hey George,
  
  Just hang in there bro! I’ve been in NC for about 5 months with the evil witch. It was so hard. And as someone mentioned, I also think you’re recycling. Just do your work (inventory, journal, self-help books). Reach out to YOU instead of her. She ain’t gonna get you nowhere!
  
  You know, my ex was basically my only friend. We did everything together, went to places together. So after we broke up, I tried doing some of those things alone… such as going to the movies, museum, concerts, etc. Yea, I did feel like I was the only guy by himself at first. But after I started to have fun, I didn’t even think about it. Hey, I can actually watch a movie now without frequent interruption by the person sitting next to me!
  
  Well, I wish you the best of luck! And reach out to us instead of her! :)
  - on November 17, 2009 at 7:06 pm | Log in to Reply George In June
    
    Thanks a lot taz! If I recall correctly, you were the mathematician, how is that going? Have you redeveloped your interest in math?
    - on November 18, 2009 at 1:36 am | Log in to Reply taztx
      
      Wow, I’m surprised you remember this. Makes me feel so good! I think I have, somewhat. Recently I’ve been thinking more about my career goals than my ex. My plan was to take a break after getting my Bachelor’s, work a full time job and earn some cash, before going back for a Master’s degree. Well, I got my degree in August. And I haven’t found any job that I would like. Teaching high school math is not my thing. I guess I ultimately see myself being a math professor. There are other things I’m being suggested to do, such as actuary. But I don’t think I will be happy doing those tings, even if it’s temporary. So I think it would be good if I can get back to school for Master’s degree as soon as possible. Perhaps I can work a tutoring job while attending school to help me with my financial situation.
      Anyways, I’m glad I regained my interest in math.
      Thanks for asking. Hope thinks work out for ya. :)
on November 16, 2009 at 7:26 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11

In line with what I just said … I’m in a really weird place right now myself. Things are going well with work, social life, etc, but I mentioned a few days ago that I was feeling in a nostalgic mood.

I have kind of this pressing desire to reconnect with people from my past (from a year or so ago, not beyond that). Not abusive people like my ex or my dad who are toxic trouble, but friends with whom I had a falling out or whatever.

I feel like for a while when I was in recovery, I was queen boundaries and was just chopping people out of my life left and right like some kind of deranged ninja. Something would go wrong and I would be like “I don’t need THIS!” and remove them immediately from my life.

Some of them were for the best, but I’m not sure all of them were. I think what triggered this for me is that an old friend got in touch with me recently and it’s been quite nice talking again.

Last night I decided to reach out to a friend who I had for many years; things ended really ugly between us in summer 2008. In retrospect, I did not handle everything as well as I could have. To be fair, neither did she. I figured I’d send out a “feeler” email, and she replied sounding quite a bit pissed off still and saying she doesn’t want to talk to me unless we rehash and settle everything that happened.

I get the feeling she is going to want me to take blame for everything, and that perhaps this is not going to go well at all. I will own my part but not more than that. Or maybe she’ll decide she doesn’t want to talk to me at all.

I guess I hoped that I’d reach out and we’d be able to be casual and cordial, like it went with this other friend who contacted me, but it’s not looking like that will come easy or be the case.

I don’t know why I want to make amends with people. Maybe it’s a huge mistake and a backslide in some way. It probably is both of these things. I guess I’m feeling a bit like so many things are out of our control in life that it feels good to repair things that are. I can’t control that my dad is a narcissist, my ex is crazy, my cat is dying. These are facts of life. But anytime I’ve had a fight with a friend (not one who was lousy to me) and we’ve made up later, we’ve both ended up feeling better about it, so I guess I feel like taking a shot.

Am I being silly, naive, regressing, or what?
- on November 16, 2009 at 7:41 pm | Log in to Reply elles101
  
  I don’t think you’re being silly or naive. I think friendships can be complicated. Some you need to let go as they really do you no good.
  
  But others I’ve re-visited at a later date, even when the other person has driven me mad. I got back in touch with a very old friend recently just after my mother died. To be honest, I don’t think we’ll ever go back to what we had, he has too many issues, and I’m stubborn about some of the ways he acted, but it was nice to see how he was doing.
  
  Another woman I know, I stopped being involved with her as it was all about her. I do see her sometimes, but I keep her at a distance.
  
  I find it very difficult to cut people out of my life if they’ve been a big part of it, unless they have really hurt me. However I definitely find it easier now to “re-frame” the friendship. If something’s gone wrong, they’ve let me down in same ways (or I’ve made mistakes) and we can’t work it out I accept it for what it is (at least for that moment).
  
  I also find when I’m tired, stressed, or changes happening I really want to re-connect with people who have meant a lot, and “make things okay”. But that is changing, and I don’t get so worked up about it.
  
  I wouldn’t worry too much about it movingon, as long as you’re not trying too hard to make amends with the “wrong” people I think there are times it can show signs of your humanity.
  
  I am hoping that for myself the more I take care of me and my life the less I’ll be worried about it, and more accepting of what’s happened.
  - on November 16, 2009 at 11:58 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
    
    Thanks Elles! That makes me feel a bit better about it. This one friend I mentioned — there is no way we would go back to being close. We’re too different these days. But on a casual basis, I think it could be nice to be back in touch. If she wants to, of course.
    
    If not, then I know I tried, and it can feel at least slightly resolved to me. I’m the type of person who is not afraid of a bad reaction but rather of not doing something I want to do out of fear of the outcome.
    
    I have no desire to let bad people back into my life. They can get out and stay out.
    
    What you said about how when you’re tired or stressed or things are changing, the desire to reconnect grows — that could well be what is going on with me too on some level. This feels like another transitional point in my life for some reason.
    
    Also my cat is getting worse I think, and it’s really hard for me to process or deal with that, so I am a bit all over the map. I hope it’s just another downslide and a rebound will follow, but I’m not so sure. He just seems a bit sluggish the past few days and is needing his pill more often. It’s not really a good sign to me.
    
    Hope all is well by you.
    - on November 17, 2009 at 12:21 am | Log in to Reply engineer101
      
      movingon11, I’m so sad about your little cat buddy. Give him a little scratch behind the ears from his Mom’s internet friends. Hang in there and remember animals are totally “in the moment” creatures.
    - on November 17, 2009 at 7:24 pm | Log in to Reply elles101
      
      Aw, I am sorry to hear about your cat, I am tired and emotional at the moment, that made me feel sad.
      
      I hope you get to spend a bit more time together with them being okay.
      - on November 17, 2009 at 10:19 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
        
        Thank you engineer and elles. He is doing better today, so I guess it was just another dip. I’m always afraid when that happens that it will be the end. At least today is not that day.
        
        I saw your post, elles, that you’re having a rough time right now. Hang in there! Hugs.
on November 16, 2009 at 8:05 pm | Log in to Reply scottod

scottod
Hi Everyone,

It’s day 9 of No Contact, and I am coming out of my skin. I feel so empty and alone, and my emotions are all strirred up.
I can’t stop thinking (obsessing) about her and the “open-ended” things that she said when she broke it off on Saturday 11/5.
When I asked her if she loves me she said “yes”, and when I tried to bargain with her and told her that I would got to 90 AA meetings in 90 days, re-connect wih my sponsor, seek better employment, etc., she said something like “we’ll talk in 90 days”. She also said “if it’s meant to be, we’ll be together”, “I’m not going anywhere”, and “I need to re-group”.
These statements have me hanging on to the hope that we will get back together again (even though evry time we do, I end up in this situation again).
I know, I know, I should just let her/it go, but it’s not easy, and I keep telling myself that I love her, but at this point it has definitely become an addiction.
I am doing some positive stuff to help deal with it (this site, counseling, 12 step meetings, exercise, etc.), and I talked with someone today about it after a meeting. He said that I need to just have faith in my higher power (step 2), and to just let it go (step 3), but I am still struggling, and I get the urge to call her all the time.
I am praying for the obsession to be removed when it does happen, but I am still anxious and scared (of being alone forever). I can’t believe that this is happening again, and I am definitely not looking forward to the holidays.
My mind keeps remembering the previous breakups and the amount of time that passed between the breakup and when we got back together again, and other than the 7 months that passed this last time (when she was back with her ex), the longest one was 5 weeks, so my crazy mind thinks that she will be contacting me in a few weeks (especially since she told me that this time she is not with anyone else).
We have been apart during Thanksgiving in the 6 years of this on again off again relationship , but never during Christmas, and as I said before I am dreading the next couple of months.
Anyway, I need help and support, so please reply with any feedback, advice, or guidance.
HELP!!!!

scottod
- on November 16, 2009 at 9:36 pm | Log in to Reply engineer101
  
  scottod, I don’t know much about 12 step programs, but it sounds like you are doing the right things for YOU. It’s hard, but you have to interrupt those thoughts about her. Take it a moment at a time, not in leaps and bounds into the future. Thanksgiving (nevermind Christmas) is, like, CENTURIES away from this moment…
on November 16, 2009 at 10:03 pm | Log in to Reply engineer101

… and then there are good days! I found a therapist I like today, and booked a second appointment. I’m pretty excited about it as I’ve met some I declined to proceed with.

He complimented me on the journaling (first time I’ve tried it & find it difficult). He also saw Susan’s book in my hands (yes, I brought some of the stuff I’ve been working on), and said his wife has it (she’s a therapist too; not thinking of leaving him, lol!).

Anyway, it was a solid start to the week, and sometimes that’s just enough.
on November 17, 2009 at 6:47 am | Log in to Reply gambit25

I duno what to be thinking today !

I had a good weekend……

But, lastnite , i had some sterible dreams….

Forst dream….. I was with my dad. It was “that” day again…. I could see him perfectly. We were joking around. But icould see something bad was gona happen and i couldnt do anything to stop it !!!

Secondly….. I dream i ended up at the ex fiance’s place…. duno how i got there or why i was there either. But i was there with some other girl (not sure who she is either). I stumbled into the ex’s room and saw some things that suggested she was , excuse the expression…sleeping with someone else.

I woke up feeling and still feel like crap…
The first dream just left me confused, stressed out and obviously sad… It was as if i was there all over again, watchin him and knowing it be the last time i saw him and not being able to do anything about it ???

The second dream left me feeling worthless/ “replaced” , angry and somewhat heartbroken all over again.
And both dreams felt SOOOO real !!! ….. I didnt like the fact that i saw a guys belongins in her bedroom etc…

As i said, i dont think i love her anymor and i havent really been bothered about what she’s been doing the last 2 or so months but i still felt really crap after that dream. I know she is going to ,at some point, meet someone else….if she hasnt already…. and i dont think id ever want to get involved with her again…. but it still got upset thinking about her with another guy…. almost like a jealous feeling but not quite….. it was more like i was hurting or feeling betrayed or something ???

Why am i dreaming this really horrible crap ???
Is there any relevance ?
Can i or should I do anything about it… ?
on November 17, 2009 at 11:42 am | Log in to Reply scottod

Hi Everyone,

The last time I posted on this blog, I checked the box to be notified by E-Mail when new comments were posted.
I didn’t realize that I would notified of all comments that were posted, I thought it would just be the replies to my post(s).
Can anybody tell me how to change this notification status?

Thanks,
scottod
- on November 18, 2009 at 12:12 am | Log in to Reply mayee2008
  
  I think you have to login into wordpress.com and go to ‘Your Dashboard’. Last time I had subscribed, I remember seeing something in ‘Subscriptions’ under Dashboard. It isn’t there anymore probably because no activity has been going on in those threads for a while or because it is just older than wordpress allows to have a subscription. If you find the proper way, let us know as well.
on November 17, 2009 at 4:54 pm | Log in to Reply midlifegirlfriend

I haven’t checked in here for a while…because I thought I was, well, better. I learned my lesson about being in contact with the ex and stopped; I even assgined his music calendar email blasts to my Spam folder. I’ve seen my therapist every week and I returned to antidepressants. I haven’t been in touch with other uncaring people who were in my life and I’m making new friends. I even made Thanksgiving plans.

I thought I was safely on my way to my new life. But today I am back to uncontrollable tears, feeling like the breakup happened like yesterday (it’s been almost 2 months). I think I’m uncovered memories of the crappy way he treated me. And our brief contact almost two weeks ago made me realize how little he is affected by our split, which I know I’m not suppoed to think or care about.

I know my grief relapse is only minimally about him; it is more about my lifelong poor self-esteem and how it has manifested itself in my relationships (or lack thereof) and career. It’s about how little feels satisfactory and satisfying in my life.

I have work to do and I’m haivng trouble doing it, which is making everything worse. I’m hoping for a better day tomorrow, for me and everyone who is hurting today.
on November 17, 2009 at 4:55 pm | Log in to Reply midlifegirlfriend

I haven’t checked in here for a while…because I thought I was, well, better. I learned my lesson about being in contact with the ex and stopped; I even assgined his music calendar email blasts to my Spam folder. I’ve seen my therapist every week and I returned to antidepressants. I haven’t been in touch with other uncaring people who were in my life and I’m making new friends. I even made Thanksgiving plans.

I thought I was safely on my way to my new life. But today I am back to uncontrollable tears, feeling like the breakup happened like yesterday (it’s been almost 2 months). I think I’m uncovered memories of the crappy way he treated me. And our brief contact almost two weeks ago made me realize how little he is affected by our split, which I know I’m not suppoed to think or care about.

I know my grief relapse is only minimally about him; it is more about my lifelong poor self-esteem and how it has manifested itself in my relationships (or lack thereof) and career. It’s about how little feels satisfactory and satisfying and secure in my life.

I have work to do and I’m haivng trouble doing it, which is making everything worse. I’m hoping for a better day tomorrow, for me and everyone who is hurting today.
on November 17, 2009 at 4:55 pm | Log in to Reply midlifegirlfriend

I haven’t checked in here for a while…because I thought I was, well, better. I learned my lesson about being in contact with the ex and stopped; I even assgined his music calendar email blasts to my Spam folder. I’ve seen my therapist every week and I returned to antidepressants. I haven’t been in touch with other uncaring people who were in my life and I’m making new friends. I even made Thanksgiving plans.

I thought I was safely on my way to my new life. But today I am back to uncontrollable tears, feeling like the breakup happened like yesterday (it’s been almost 2 months). I think I’m uncovering memories of the crappy way he treated me. And our brief contact almost two weeks ago made me realize how little he is affected by our split, which I know I’m not suppoed to think or care about.

I know my grief relapse is only minimally about him; it is more about my lifelong poor self-esteem and how it has manifested itself in my relationships (or lack thereof) and career. It’s about how little feels satisfactory and satisfying and secure in my life.

I have work to do and I’m haivng trouble doing it, which is making everything worse. I’m hoping for a better day tomorrow, for me and everyone who is hurting today.
- on November 17, 2009 at 8:05 pm | Log in to Reply teacherjacket
  
  I’m doing all those little things, too. No contact, therapist, medication, making plans etc. And was s l o w l y getting past the breakup. It has been about a month since the breakup. But over the weekend I felt horrible. I cried and cried and kept asking “why” and “how could he…” and calling friends and spilling my emotional thoughts on them. Then on Monday I went for tea with a friend. We had made plans to do it a few days ahead of time. And going out with her and talking to her about it and being in a cool restaurant and talking about other stuff made me feel better. Today I feel better.
  
  You will feel better.
  - on November 17, 2009 at 10:23 pm | Log in to Reply midlifegirlfriend
    
    Thank you, teacherjacket. I know that we suddenly just feel better, just as we suddenly just feel worse. I’ve felt better before and I’m sure I will again.
on November 17, 2009 at 4:56 pm | Log in to Reply jpearl09

I just watched one of the most disturbing shows on MTV, in their True Life series which follows young people in their real life struggles. This episode was titled ‘I can’t leave my boyfriend’. It was so heartbreaking for me to watch. Especially watching them struggle with moving out, no contact, and all those things that we’ve been through. Most of them ended up still talking to their exes at the end or sleeping with them and it made me so sad. I wish there was some way to get them Susan’s book or at least on to the blog. Like a little PSA at the end of the episode would have been nice. Hey if you need help with getting out of a relationship please visit getting past your past. Sigh. I think it was such a perfect opportunity to give young women a resource to actually help them.
on November 17, 2009 at 7:30 pm | Log in to Reply elles101

I am up and down a lot this week. Had an interview for a job, didn’t get it, the guy was very upfront as I didn’t have the skillset (I didn’t, and I admitted it and we talked about it).

But he said how nice I was and I would have fitted into the team on a social level. This may sound great but I’ve had this a few times in the past, interviewers say how lovely I am, how honest and open… then I don’t get the job!! I am feeling like the Andrex puppy. For those not in my country, this is a little labrador puppy that rolls around with toilet rolls looking all cute and big-eyed on a TV advert. Some of my friends say this too… I’m beginning to think it’s a code-word for being walked all-over, being “too nice”.

This week I had a so-called friend treat me badly/kind of rip me off on work being done on my house. I really need to learn some boundary work and start being tougher on people, I find it so difficult. It’s as if I “can’t say it”. Something sticks in my throat.

In the middle of this I really want to kill my ex. He was a total narcissist and I keep getting waves of hatred over the way he acted. I know it’s probably because I’ve got a lot on but it’s really driving me mad. Argh.
- on November 17, 2009 at 7:33 pm | Log in to Reply elles101
  
  And I forgot to mention. Last night, I had some red wine, and went through my exes emails to remind myself what an idiot he really was (I usually keep emails when I’ve made mistakes as a reminder). However, it got me more and more wound-up, and I ended up typing replies (to myself, not him) saying what I thought of him.
  
  Should I just bin all these mails? I have recorded enough about him in my relationship inventory as a reminder of what he’s like as a reality check, I think my anger may be a bit obsessional at the moment.
  - on November 17, 2009 at 7:44 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
    
    Elles,
    
    sorry you are having a bit of a rough time. I remember you had this great attitude about things being okay even if it all does not work out. I hope you can get back to that point, because I think that was very powerful indeed.
    So the job did not work out. This is not meant as a cliche, but I am sure that it is good for a reason. Something else will work out.
    I can relate to what you said about being tired of being “too nice”. The way you describe yourself and the role you often seem to play, it reminds me of how people feel when they are in love with someone and that person says “you are lovely, I would love to be friends, but alas nothing more…”
    I’ve read somewhere that being too nice is not going to serve you well. Have you read “Women who run with the wolves”. I highly recommend it.
    I am convinced that being all good and nice all the time is not going to lead you to your “North Star” so to speak.
    Honesty is a great virtue, but is there a reason why you applied for a job knowing that it required different skills? Or did you not know that beforehand?
    And, re your anger at your ex: if that was not there at the moment (imagine yourself anger-free), what would you be doing? What emotion would be dominant?
    In other words, what does the anger represent?
    Anger can be a wonderfully powerful emotion, if used constructively, ie to propel you forward. But it can equally be destructive if it leads you to going round in circles.
    I hope you will feel better soon.
  - on November 17, 2009 at 7:45 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
    
    Elles, I sent you a response but it’s in comment jail.
  - on November 18, 2009 at 12:13 am | Log in to Reply movingon11
    
    “Should I just bin all these mails?”
    
    It depends on the reason you are keeping them. Do you still need reminders of who he was to keep you from reaching out? If so, then keep them. Are you well aware of it and the letters exist as something to torture yourself with when you’re already down? If so, I’d say to delete them.
    - on November 18, 2009 at 12:18 pm | Log in to Reply elles101
      
      thanks Greenroses. I think I’m applying for work and probably ignoring the fact that some of the jobs I go for aren’t right (and sometimes it’s hard to tell in the field I work in). I really need a job, but if I go for anything it’s just going to drag me down, I’ll step back and re-assess.
      
      Strange you mention “women who run with wolves” I bought it 6 weeks ago and haven’t read it, I forgot about it as busy! I’ll start reading it tonight now you’ve recommended it.
      
      Very good point about what you say about what the anger represents, it got me thinking, if I was anger-free what would be there. I suppose, it would be an air of desperation, which doesn’t sound great but I think I have to face it. And deal with it. It’s to do with worrying about money, being alone, trying to get my mother’s house sorted etc. I have to relax, take care of myself a bit more. If I work on the self-care what will be, will be. As long as I have goals in the background I’ll be fine.
      
      As for being too nice… I don’t know how to stop it worst luck. If I read women who run with wolves, and start putting my needs first, perhaps that will help. Cheers again.
      - on November 18, 2009 at 2:23 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
        
        You are welcome. Women/wolves is a very dense book and not easily read. I found that I needed breaks in between to digest all its wisdom but it has been so inspiring. Infact, I just found a book that I had started to create, and it contains quotes that I found valuable and empowering. Some are taken from the Wolves book.
        Here are a few examples:
        “Finding that being good, being sweet, being nice will not cause life to sing.”
        “We may fear the dark night that presses , but we will be better off if we go through it.”
        “What must I give more death today, in order to generate more life?”
        (that last one speaks to me today).
    - on November 18, 2009 at 12:21 pm | Log in to Reply elles101
      
      Movingon, yes, I’m torturing myself. You’re correct. There is no way I don’t have enough reminders of who he is…plus I spend half my time on the street looking out for him and his new gf/friend as she lives close by, and he’ll probably move around here (worst luck).
      
      I’ll put the emails on a memory stick or just bin them.
      
      Thanks for the advice.
      - on November 18, 2009 at 12:47 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
        
        No prob. I remember that sensation too — the looking for him everywhere on the street thing. It’s the worst. It felt like a low-grade panic attack on a daily basis.
        
        I realize, in retrospect, that the reason I kept “searching” for him is that I was terrified of bumping into him when I wasn’t expecting it. So I tried to control my reaction by looking for him always, being on high alert. If I had a time machine, I would certainly vouch for a different approach. It was crazymaking and I never ended up seeing him, so it was a lot of energy wasted.
on November 18, 2009 at 4:34 am | Log in to Reply greenroses73

Sensing self-sabotage in me, and I want it to stop. As I wrote the other day, I’ve been all messed up in my head as I thought the ex-ex (Mr. “Still has an effect on me after 11 years”) had sent a message (which he hadn’t). But the fact that this influenced me so much and kept me awake half night, plus that I increasingly seem to be thinking about him again, sets off some alarm bells in my head.
Woke up feeling pretty bad about it all (had some contact via text).
I had written about this before, numerous times, only recently again.
I can’t explain what it was that made me feel so drawn to him at the time. As said, his worse parts did not reveal themselves initially, and we had the most wonderful start to a relationship that’s thinkable. I was lying awake last night remembering all that. He had been driving thousands of miles to meet me in Italy, in Torino, where I had an appointment with a customer. We were not yet together at that point, but met there and drove along the Italian coast for 3 days straight, it was a beautiful “roadmovie” and we got together there. Then we returned and had the most intense relationship for 10 months. I never felt that much in love before (and even doubt I did ever since feel “that absolutely” in love).
Alas, he showed some very extreme and unacceptable behaviour and was not a safe person to relate to. Took a while to find out.
Some sort of line needs to be drawn, I am just not sure how to go about it at this point.
I have lots of cherished memories with him (and especially because I was so utterly convinced of my feelings, I loved him dearly, so so much).
We broke up at a time when I (and probably he also) was still in love. I guess that is also a reason why this has been so hard and still has an effect on me after all these years. Ya know, the projection of “what was never fully lived”.
(Of course, intellectually I know it would only have become more of a disaster).
It amazes me that I feel I am over my most recent ex (the one I spent more than 5 years of my life with), whilst being in some (even if little) way, shape or form still connected to that ghost from long, long ago.
Maybe I need to do a ritual like a “goodbye letter” for this one also (that I don’t send)? I am not sure it’s that easy though. Thing is also, I tend to forget how bad this actually makes me feel, time and again, so I quickly think “NC? Goodbye letter? Common, don’t exaggerate, it’s been so many years…”
I want to choose the right tool, so to speak, in order to free myself of this. It’s not as if this constantly takes up a huge amount of energy (and it has not, over those years, there have always been long periods when we did not speak and I did not think of him and I felt I was over him), but recently, I feel weaker in this respect. I know there is a lot of projection. If there was someone else, this wouldn’t be. But: There is noone else, and I dont see anyone coming if I get caught up in this BS again.
I have so much positive energy these days, and last weekend when I visited my childhood friend, it was lovely to catch up and we also got really close again, due to some shared thoughts and feelings these days, which is heartwarming. And she also noticed how my eyes are shining and I am going to start something, and that I look really good and refreshed and happy. I know she would hate to see this being destroyed by someone she does not think well of (for good reason).
But the thing is: There is no point in being surprised, over and over again, about what he says or does. As in “what an a*hole!”. Because, no news there. It’s a fact that he can be pretty much uncaring or destructive. As Susan once wrote, even Jack the freakin Ripper probably had his “good sides”. But that does not make him good, overall.
Trying to find my way out of this. It’s not about my childhood or anything. And I have given up analyzing why this man was the biggest love for me so far.
It is at it is.
But something needs to change.
Thoughts? Thanks guys.
- on November 18, 2009 at 8:51 am | Log in to Reply movingon11
  
  Greenroses,
  It sounds to me like your relationship with him was a bit of a fantasy — in the sense that it was short-lived, full of passion, took you to exotic locations, etc. Kind of like an extended, love-intense affair. That’s obviously not going to have the same effect as a many-years relationship, and ultimately, that’s a really, really good thing.
  My opinion is that you are continuing to “dance” with him because you are lonely, you’re not thrilled about where your life is right now, and there’s nobody else in the picture. I think he is your default in that sense. It sounds to me like a drug. Like “oh I’ll just take one hit” and then that leads to many hits and a “what the hell happened?” end result.
  The only solution for you is to go 100% NC. This is not a good guy and he does not bring out the best in you. I am sure he is even enjoying your recent contact on some level meanwhile you are suffering for it. There is absolutely zilch here for you.
  The goodbye letter might help. I found it freeing to say goodbye to my ex and then burn the paper.
  My advice is to view him as cocaine and you as an addict. Sure, it may feel good for a short while, but ultimately it’s robbing you of any real peace and doing damage. The only way out is to cut it out completely and not “cheat” even a little.
  Good luck.
- on November 18, 2009 at 9:06 am | Log in to Reply mayee2008
  
  I faced a similar problem while I was going through break-up. I was going through the grief AND I kept thinking constantly about someone I had a crush on 11 years ago. I wasn’t in touch with him for all those years and haven’t been. But still he was on my mind for a while. Eventually I did a relationship inventory about him. Didn’t exactly help the obsessive thinking, but it did help with projections. My point is, have you done an inventory of *that* relationship? Because, even though it is that old, it is still affecting you. Inventory might at least shed some light about what is happening..
  - on November 18, 2009 at 10:07 am | Log in to Reply greenroses73
    
    Thank you both for the advice.
    MO, I am not sure about the “feeling lonely” bit. Actually caught myself at being alone without feeling lonely, in these past days/week…and also filled with lots of hope and positive energy re. the future. That’s why I’m a little dumbstruck about why this still all happens. I am not getting it.
    I haven’t done a goodbye ritual on this relationship. Am thinking about it. What’s clear is that the contact, at *some* point, makes me suffer. I like the comparison with a drug. I feel sick today.
    - on November 18, 2009 at 10:11 am | Log in to Reply greenroses73
      
      Also, I have noticed that I am getting a lot of male attention once I “get out there”. But this whole mad trip (in my mind, with him) maybe keeps me from actually getting out much. These days. It has to change.
    - on November 18, 2009 at 11:13 am | Log in to Reply greenroses73
      
      PS: Funny that we talked about this (comparison with a drug). I had texted him last night and today, when he texted back I told him that I had been “on a gross trip”. He asked me what it was that I took, I said “nothing”.
      I wont say “you are my drug”, of course, but the drug-comparison hits the nail on the head.
      MO, I could also imagine that he’d kinda enjoy the contact from me, though I’m not saying he’d like me to suffer. Let’s just say he’s a narcissist and as you said, not a good guy overall.
      - on November 18, 2009 at 12:39 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
        
        I think unless you’re completely honest with yourself about why you are still communicating with him, the cycle will continue on without an end. I couldn’t say the exact reason, but with a lot of self-reflection (what fun, I know!) I think it will come to you.
        
        Just remember that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Your contact with him will NEVER lead you anywhere except right where you are now. If that’s not where you want to be, it’s up to you to make it stop. And you can, whenever you want.
        
        You can do this!
        
        on November 18, 2009 at 1:06 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
        
        A while ago, he tried to make a point that he had changed, that he was immature then and ages have passed, and he’s different now. I think part of me (insanely) thinks that unless I meet him, I cannot know for sure. This is crazy. I don’t like these thoughts. How can someone possibly be good for us if they irritate us without seeing them already?
        Thanks for encouraging me. Things are becoming better and better in my life (otherwise), and I can’t believe this whole thing still brings me so down.
        OK, I hope I’ll feel better tomorrow. Not my day today.
        
        on November 18, 2009 at 1:07 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
        
        I have been booked as an interpreter for tomorrow (and possibly 2 days), which came a bit as a surprise today, so maybe it’s the universe’s way of encouraging me and helping me to shift my focus…sigh.
        
        on November 18, 2009 at 1:38 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
        
        What does it matter even if he has changed? He’s still wildly wrong for you. It sounds like your focus is still on him and not on why you’re talking to him.
        
        Even if he’s a better version of himself, which it doesn’t sound like is the case, he’s still not remotely for you. So it’s entirely irrelevant.
        
        Good luck with the interpreter gig!
        
        on November 18, 2009 at 1:48 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
        
        “What does it matter even if he has changed?”
        I’ll try to explain my thought process. I have loved this guy very much. And if he had truly changed (ie, be good and caring etc), then I’d ask myself if it was worth to give it another shot. It’s not like I am making this up, he was the one to pursue me over a couple of months (after all those years), so I guess in a fairytale-land everything would be great (my big love finally being right for me) and we’d all live happily ever after.
        Sigh. I know I know. I’m just trying to explain the appeal of that thought (that he has changed, and I know it’s far-fetched).
        
        on November 18, 2009 at 2:31 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
        
        Ah, yeah I had a feeling that might be the case. That’s a result of romantic brainwashing from the media and fairy tales, among other things.
        
        He hasn’t changed. Narcissists will always reach out and try to charm their way back in — it has nothing to do with the person they are contacting. It’s not flattering in the least. My friend is going through something similar, again, with her ex from 2 years ago. I knew this would be my life too if I signed up for it, which is why I changed my email and phone number.
        
        I think if you know it’s because you’re hoping for something totally unrealistic, that may help you in staying away. You can say a daily affirmation like “I choose to live in a happy reality, not an unhealthy fantasy.”
        
        When I was still looking up my ex online, I realized it was for one main reason: To see if he had magically overcome his mental illness and was all better now that he had gotten away from me. I was looking for proof to validate my deep, irrational fears. So anytime I’d see anything, even if it was a picture of him in a button-down shirt, it would be like “See! see! It’s my fault! I am unlovable!” and spiral into a frenzy.
        
        I have since decided that I love myself too much to perpetuate the self-torture that stems from my narcissistic father. I need these kinds of men like I need an arrow through my cheek.
        
        Same goes for you.
        
        on November 18, 2009 at 2:43 pm greenroses73
        
        Thanks, I appreciate that.
        No, he hasn’t changed. The guy tried dog (in China?) and tells me it did not taste well, and animals are only good for being eaten and serve no other purpose. He dislikes 98% of the population, left his pregnant girlfriend for another woman (as far as I know) and had to go to court to finally be allowed access to the child, all the while calling the mother of his kid “the shittiest woman on the planet”.
        He once told me he’s done a lot wrong with me and well, seems to regret it. And would love to see me immediately.
        What is it good for.
        Arrow through my cheek. Yeah, right.
- on November 18, 2009 at 12:25 pm | Log in to Reply FootballGirl
  
  GR, I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I had a very similar experience as you did with the ex that brought me here. The beginning of our relationship was like a movie. Everything was perfect, but it wasn’t until months later that his unacceptable and unthinkable behaviors started to show.
  
  I do think about the good times with him sometimes, especially when the holidays are upon us since we met at this time last year (our “supposed” anniversary would be on 11/29 – ouch). He told me he loved me on Christmas morning, and we had a wonderful time ringing in the New Year and promised to always go out and celebrate every New Year moving forward…then his and my birthdays in January, and the subsequent Valentine’s Day…
  
  I know this year is going to be one of the toughest holiday seasons I’ll have to endure, so I try my hardest not to remind myself of the “perfect” time we had together. Instead, I think about all the reasons why I dumped him, and all the unacceptable and unthinkable things he did to me and the way he treated me in the end.
  
  I feel like I’m making progress this way. I think about his bad traits and I grieve about the loss of our relationship. I’ve stayed active NC since July, and I stayed passive NC (no Facebook checking, etc.) for over a month now. It is not easy, but I do feel the progress by doing the work and sticking NC.
  
  Hang in there. The light at the end of the tunnel is closer than you think!
- on November 18, 2009 at 3:48 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
  
  As said, not my day today but I’m proud of the following
  
  1) Went to the gym this morning
  
  still felt bad.
  
  2) Went to read for the kids. Difficult today, they were very loud and hard to manage
  
  still felt bad.
  
  3) Got the interpreter job for tomorrow
  
  bit better.
  
  4) Will go to cinema and do an evening-walk.
  
  Just for following-through with all this stuff.
  
  Your support on here is so valuable. I need it so much today.
  - on November 18, 2009 at 4:01 pm | Log in to Reply FootballGirl
    
    GR, also think to yourself that you’re doing the absolute right and healthy thing to yourself by feeling all the emotions, however unpleasant. It feels terrible, but keep reminding yourself that grieving is means healing.
    
    And congrats on the interpreter job!
    - on November 18, 2009 at 7:12 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
      
      It feels weird to think of this as grieving, after so many years…I’m not sure, but I hope to find out more about it…what’s been triggered and so on. Where all this chaos comes from, what it means.
      - on November 19, 2009 at 1:33 am | Log in to Reply FootballGirl
        
        GR, I know it sounds weird that you may still be grieving this situation after so many years, but it does sound like it if this person is stirring up all the emotions still. If you’ve healed from this relationship and have truly moved on, he won’t have this effect on you. The perfect example would be meavita1975’s post down below. :)
        
        I have an ex from 7 years ago whom I got in touch with again a few years ago. I knew I was truly over him and have healed from my broken relationship with him when he didn’t stir up any chaotic feelings in me when I re-acquainted him again. Now he’s one of my FB friends and we comment on each other’s pages once in a while. It doesn’t bother me one bit and I feel NOTHING, NADA toward him. I feel as if he is just another acquaintance. Hard to believe how head over heels in love I was with him and how he broke my heart in the end.
        
        So perhaps you should go NC on this guy and stay away from him…he’s not bringing out good feelings in you and that’s not a good sign. :(
        
        on November 19, 2009 at 2:24 am | Log in to Reply greenroses73
        
        “GR, I know it sounds weird that you may still be grieving this situation after so many years, but it does sound like it if this person is stirring up all the emotions still.”
        True. Although I am hesitant to call it grieving at this point. I think there is a lot of projection going on, ie this stands for something, maybe for the fact that I am sometimes experiencing anxiety (which I do) and more “building my life” work needs to be done. NC is an option, for sure. Though I do not see that as the main source of trouble. I think I will need to keep some distance and figure out other stuff. But not in a “change my number” kind of radical way. It’s too long in the past for that, and besides, he does not pursue me the way he has for many months. I think after my 2-months-NC this summer he finally got the message that I will not meet him.
        Yeah, FB can be tricky. It’s tempting to look up his profile, but why do I do it? It happens when I have too much spare time and am also a bit bored perhaps. And then I get more and more involved mentally, and end up as a mess, like yesterday.
        So, the question is (as correctly pointed out by some of you guys), why do *I* do it. Because this misery I felt is mainly a result of my own doing.
        Thanks all…
        
        on November 19, 2009 at 2:34 am | Log in to Reply greenroses73
        
        What I mean re. NC is, I usually am totally in favour of that (as you guys know), and am not saying I should stay in continued contact here (not at all), but I think it’s more important in cases where a breakup just happened (or not long ago) and is the *real* source of trouble as such, and not a projection, ie I think this whole thing here is way too much in the past for that. And I need to look at the real source of my discomfort. But at least for now, I’ll certainly tune contact down and focus on my life. Maybe stop the FB connection also, if this proves necessary.
        
        on November 19, 2009 at 7:28 am | Log in to Reply Rhea
        
        GR, I do believe you have a point when you say you need to look at the real source of your discomfort. As whats going on with your ex could, I say could, be that you create some chaos and drama to keep you busy so you dont have to deal with challenges in your present life. And so, even if you dont have unresolved grief NC would still be a good idea. Enter NC in ordet to help you back to NOW, help you to focus on what needs your attention in your present life. As building a life the way you are is stimualting but also challenging. Facing the core issues in life, love, work and belonging. I think acknowledge that, what a huge work you are doing,
        
        on November 19, 2009 at 11:19 am | Log in to Reply movingon11
        
        “…but I think [NC] more important in cases where a breakup just happened.”
        
        I disagree with that. I think we should all go NC with anyone who does us substantial harm — whether it’s recent harm or long-ago harm.
        
        Bad is bad. They deserve to be blocked equally.
on November 18, 2009 at 8:53 am | Log in to Reply movingon11

GR, I left you a comment but it’s in comment jail, as a heads up.
on November 18, 2009 at 11:40 am | Log in to Reply meavita1975

Hi Greenroses,

I think Movingon makes a very valid point. It doesn’t really matter whether or not it’s been 11 years since you guys separated. This seems to bother you a lot, and you’re definitely putting a lot of energy into a relationship that ended that long ago (after all, you are posting about it on here – if this didn’t ‘touch’ you, you’d have brushed it off). Hence Movingon’s advice about NC is the best advice. Having contact with this guy is obviously an unsettling experience for you.
- on November 18, 2009 at 11:59 am | Log in to Reply greenroses73
  
  Of course it touches me. It was 10 years ago (started 11 years back). At this moment I just feel pretty sick. And I wonder why, still. Perfect example for “time does not heal all wounds” I guess.
  - on November 18, 2009 at 12:07 pm | Log in to Reply meavita1975
    
    Maybe you shouldn’t wonder ‘why’ so much. After all : it doesn’t matter – right ? Especially after 10 years.
    
    You’re right in this case I suppose, time didn’t heal all wounds, because you may not have grieved about him in a proper (GPYP) fashion ?
    
    I’d write the letter. And journal a bit about it perhaps. But go NC. Because this isn’t supposed to be so unsettling after all this time. Distance yourself from it, and then try to sort out why it affects you.
    
    Whatever it is Greenroses – he’s not the one who holds the answers.
    - on November 18, 2009 at 12:11 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
      
      “Because this isn’t supposed to be so unsettling after all this time.”
      Ouch. That hurts.
      Thanks anyway, Meavita, I know you mean it well…
      - on November 18, 2009 at 12:15 pm | Log in to Reply meavita1975
        
        I’m sorry if that offended you. Didn’t mean it to be harsh and if I’m wrong about how this looks – then I apologize.
on November 18, 2009 at 11:42 am | Log in to Reply meavita1975

Hi Movingon,

How is your cat ?
- on November 18, 2009 at 12:15 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
  
  Nice of you to ask, thanks :) He is hanging in there. I’ve noticed that he needs his appetite pill more often now, which is a subtle sign to me of declining health. The vet says as long as he is eating and enjoying life, that that’s what counts. So I’m doing what I’ve been doing — enjoying his company as much as possible, and dreading the inevitable.
  - on November 18, 2009 at 12:18 pm | Log in to Reply meavita1975
    
    Have you ever managed to find the cat milk ? He might benefit from it … I’m not even sure if it’s for sale in North America though.
    - on November 18, 2009 at 12:20 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
      
      I did, but he wouldn’t drink it. He’s become very picky about what he eats. It has to be a specific flavor of cat food or he looks at me like I have 8 heads. (Right now he’s on a whitefish kick.)
      
      He is eating though, wet and dry food, so yay for that.
      - on November 18, 2009 at 12:25 pm | Log in to Reply meavita1975
        
        It’s good to hear that he’s eating. A pity that he didn’t care much for the milk, but well, cats are allowed preferences as well I guess.
        
        Wishing your kittykat the best. He has an incredible caregiver with you there. He couldn’t be in a better place right now.
        
        on November 18, 2009 at 12:29 pm | Log in to Reply movingon11
        
        Thanks so much :)
        
        How are you holding up?
on November 18, 2009 at 12:01 pm | Log in to Reply meavita1975

Hi all,

A brief check-in from my end. The past week has been turbulent, but interesting.

I know that NC is strictly advocated as the way to get over the Ex, and I agree. But I’ve had an interesting event happening to me.

The Ex contacted me. After a year and three months of blog stalking, the guy finally grew a pair and decided he’d e-mail me. Initially I was pretty angry about that – but soon went to a stage where I didn’t really care all that much.

So he tried again – this time, he apologized for his behaviour in the past (thanks darlin’ – about bloody time !) and asked me if I’d consider us being ‘in touch’ from time to time.

I got curious. Alright – I know ! Bad bad bad !! But I agreed nonetheless. So Ex decides that’s his open invite to add me to msn messenger. We talk. Three times. And this is where I’m so (pleasantly) surprised.

During EACH conversation – every singly word he speaks is followed by me thinking : ‘bullshit’. We go from ‘how he has learned how valuable friendships are – and how a dear friend I always was’ (bullshit) – to him saying how ‘he will always love me’ (bullshit ! Love is an action) – to him yesterday saying ‘how he’s only talking to me because he feels sorry for me’ (BULLSHIT ! He’s noticing I’m not going along with his crap and it’s making him insecure).

BULLSHIT ! Everything this man has to say is bullshit. Where I used to think he was so smart, cute, clever and so on, I now find out that I ABSOLUTELY don’t give a crap anymore. Not about what he’s saying, not about him.

So yes, this has been interesting. Every ounce of doubt that was left in my mind has been washed away by the fact that this guy failed to grow up during this time we were apart. He dives straight back into his own dysfunctional mess and is surprised I’m not dancing anymore.

I’m over him. In fact, I really don’t get what I ever saw in him in the first place.

I’m now ready to move on with my life, free from guilt, or residual grief or doubt. There’s nothing to grieve over. I’m perfectly happy without him.

Maybe sometimes – after a LONG LONG time of NC – it’s good to be reminded of their bananaheadness. So you can finally say :

I’M OVER YOU ! BUH FRIGGEN BYE !
- on November 18, 2009 at 2:32 pm | Log in to Reply FootballGirl
  
  meavita, this is excellent news!!! I cheered for you each time you thought “BULLSHIT!” I don’t think my ex will ever contact me, but if he does, that is exactly how I’d feel with his words.
  
  You go!
- on November 18, 2009 at 3:43 pm | Log in to Reply elles101
  
  Good for you. My ex used to tell me when he confessed to talking to his ex…. “I only do it because I feel sorry for her”.
  
  Where do they get their lines from, the same hymn sheet?
  
  Glad you are so happy without him.
- on November 19, 2009 at 12:51 am | Log in to Reply movingon11
  
  Wow that is so great! It sounds like you’ve completely outgrown on him and his pathetic manipulations are now lost on you. I’m so glad that he has no effect on you anymore! Applause!
on November 18, 2009 at 3:40 pm | Log in to Reply elles101

Greenroses, am thinking about that guy you were involved with that was a narcissist (I can’t reply to your final post to moving on as think it’s got too long).

I had to block my ex in case he contacted me again (he’s definitely personality disordered) and I also had another guy from several years ago that tries to contact me (it can be once a year or whatever).

With the guy from years ago, it was very easy to leave him alone most of the time, he was so emotionally abusive. I had the mis-fortune to bump into him though in his city (I always bump into my exes.. grrr) and then spoke to him afterwards and nearly met him for a catch-up. He was supposedly in my city for business… yeah, right. It didn’t happen as I was a bit more upfront with him (as in, why do you want to meet me, after all this time?). It did leave me feeling strangely unclean though, even after years of being away from him. He started trying to manipulate me again within 2 text messages.

With my last ex, there was times when it was more difficult (despite the fact I had visions of him murdering me one day… erm, reality check). But he could be very charming, very loving, and was a big cheerleader for everything I did, told me how great my writing was, how good I was at things etc etc. Which was seductive to me as I need to work on my self-worth more.

But I realised with narcs (or whatever he is) they all have the same modus operandi. What movingon is saying about them trying to charm their way back in…. I think most of them do that.

So I had to block the last one. I knew that there may come a time when I’m feeling low (like now!) when I’d perhaps engage otherwise.

In some ways, I was lucky as when we broke up I snooped through his emails. I could see exactly what he’d done, how he operates. But I wouldn’t recommend it as it hurts like hell. If I was doing that I should have left ages ago.

I also had a bonkers father, very charming, good looking, but was probably a sociopath/narc/whatever. They ruin people’s lifes… I just have to make sure I don’t keep choosing them.

I read the site “it’s all about him” if I want reminding about what narcs are like. And come on here to try and change my life.
on November 18, 2009 at 3:53 pm | Log in to Reply teacherjacket

I feel horrible today.

I really miss my ex boyfriend.

He wasn’t mean to me and he didn’t cheat on me. He just wasn’t ready for a committed relationship. And so we broke up. But that means that I still think he is a great person. I really love(d) him. And I miss spending time with him. I miss hugging him. I miss talking to him.

I feel lonely. I’m crying. I have so much to do. Dishes. Clean the bathroom. Shower. Make business cards. Other errands. I have a headache. I just want to go back to bed. I REALLY just want my ex boyfriend to hold me for a little bit.
- on November 18, 2009 at 3:57 pm | Log in to Reply FootballGirl
  
  teacherjacket, sorry you’re having a difficult day. You may think that he’s a great person, but if he’s so great, then why wouldn’t he want to commit to you and be in a relationship with you?
  
  So really, he wasn’t so great. He couldn’t recognize your worth and you deserve a lot better!
  - on November 18, 2009 at 4:03 pm | Log in to Reply teacherjacket
    
    I don’t know. Because someone that isn’t ready to commit isn’t necessarily a bad person. I mean, it is really shitty that he needed to be alone, and wasn’t able to work through our stuff. But he wasn’t ready.
    - on November 18, 2009 at 4:06 pm | Log in to Reply FootballGirl
      
      To me, he’s not so great because if he KNEW he wasn’t ready to commit, then he shouldn’t have dragged you into a relationship that he wasn’t ready for and broke your heart. A truly great person would never hurt you this way.
      - on November 18, 2009 at 4:17 pm | Log in to Reply teacherjacket
        
        I see what you are saying. You shouldn’t move in with someone unless you are willing to make things work. You shouldn’t make a promise of commitment unless you are serious.
        
        But I believe that he was sincere when he made the promise. I was his first serious girlfriend, though, and the promises were more “work” than he realized.
        
        I do deserve someone that realizes my worth. But I still miss him.
        
        on November 18, 2009 at 4:22 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73
        
        teacherjacket,
        
        one of the most helpful sentences I’ve read on here was “missing him does not mean you want him back”.
        There are some posts about missing and how it’s a natural part of the grieving process. Allow yourself to grieve, but do not confuse ‘missing him’ with wanting him back, or thinking he may be right for you.
        
        on November 18, 2009 at 4:58 pm | Log in to Reply FootballGirl
        
        teacherjacket, EXACTLY! If a person cannot make promises that he/she cannot keep, then this is not a good person for you. As Susan says, “Love is an action.” If this person take an action of leaving you, then he does not love you, no matter what he told you through words. If he loves you, he would have stayed with you and worked things out.
on November 18, 2009 at 4:25 pm | Log in to Reply teacherjacket

Yeah. He is definitely not right for me right now.
on November 18, 2009 at 5:05 pm | Log in to Reply teacherjacket

Thanks everyone. The support really helps!
on November 19, 2009 at 2:11 am | Log in to Reply greenroses73

Susan,

happy birthday!!!!!!
I sent you something, hope you received it. Be extra good to you today.
Hugs
GR
- on November 19, 2009 at 2:55 am | Log in to Reply tangolola
  
  HAPPY BIRTHDAY SUSAN!! Wishing you peace and gentle times, you are doing an incredible job right now! May the year ahead bring wonder and joy to you, hope you are out celebrating or doing something very pampering right now …
  
  TangoLola
  - on November 19, 2009 at 9:45 am | Log in to Reply Susan J. Elliott
    
    Thank you both. BD dinner on Saturday. Will post pictures. Thank you.
on November 23, 2009 at 5:10 pm | Log in to Reply greenroses73

mlm2004 and Beatrice,

it’s been a while since I heard of you. Are you guys doing ok?

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