Oh, my friend, it’s not what they take away from you that counts. It’s what you do with what you have left. – William Cowper
Most of you know that: Once upon a time I was living in Dysfunction Junction with The Mother of All Bananaheads. And one day the twisted little drama that was my life came to an end. And I thought my LIFE had come to an end. I was bereft and inconsolable. I had lost my job, my marriage, my house, a house we had planned on buying (it was going to be THE house where the boys would grow up), and several friends–all in the span of less than six weeks. I felt as if my heart and soul were just giant black holes with the void of the universe whooshing through them.
I cried all day and walked the floor at night. My heart pounded and my hands shook and my ex was happily canoodling with a woman he started seeing before we split. I couldn’t wrap my brain around how my entire world could end so suddenly and how I would ever bear the pain of all the loss.
Those first few months were very hazy but I had been stripped bare and picked clean. I had absolutely nothing and the only way to go was up. I didn’t really have a choice.
My comfort zone was non-existent and my frame of reference was shattered. I HAD to think of things in a new way, do things in a new way and find some way to make myself whole again. I read books, I went to therapy, I went to support groups, I took up new hobbies. I chased it and chased it and chased it.
Although it seemed like an EXCRUCIATINGLY long time back then, it was only a few months before I started to feel better.
Time does not heal all wounds, it’s what you do in that time that heals the wounds. I worked and worked and worked. Later on I would study how people change at the academic level and, believe it or not, I had done a lot of the things they talked about.
Sometimes falling apart is the thing you need to do to put yourself together RIGHT. Not everyone gets there. For some people the work is too hard, the road is too long and the new stuff is too damn uncomfortable. They want to go back to what they KNOW even if what they know is what has made them miserable. If you are changing and growing, even if it’s hard and it hurts, count yourself lucky. Throw yourself into the work. Read, write, go to therapy, go to support groups, go to 12-step meetings, chase it chase it chase it. Resist the urge to not change. Resist the urge to stay stuck. After living in Dysfunction Junction, I learned how to do things in a healthy way. Not easy and not simple…but I went on to have a happy, secure life where I have done some amazing things while the Mother of All Bananaheads is still living in Dysfunction Junction only with a new and more ridiculous co-conspirator in his craziness. So even though I was crying and walking the floors when we broke up and he went off to canoodle, I was the one who won. I was the one who had nothing and from nothing I was able to build my world and my life the way I wanted it. No consultation with others needed. Sometimes losing everything is the key to gaining much. Especially wisdom and self-reliance.
No one should happily welcome change and loss (because if you do they tend to put you away), but see it as an opportunity to grow in ways you’ve never imagined. If it seems very dark and dim, please do not give up the day before the miracle happens.
Keep reaching…it’s there. Even in the darkest hours, it is there. Rebuild it and peace of mind will come.
I had lost and I was lost.
Rebuild it
June 4, 2009 by Susan J. Elliott






Your words reached me deeply.
I lost it all and have been lost. I am doing what you are recommending. I did not realize how lost, until recently when my banana head also left me and went of canoodling with his ex – who had dumped him when I found him.
“I felt as if my heart and soul were just giant black holes with the void of the universe whooshing through them. ”
Your words describe how I am feeling to perfection.
I also feel guilty that I lost our home, mine and my sons’s
everything I worked so hard for…. I am in the rebuilding stage and I admire your strength and wisdom.
I am trying to keep my business, and getting a second job which I pray will come through June 15
Someone told me recently that we gain most of our wisdom from healed pain. I am going to get through this, your book and your blog are an essential piece. I am here opening boxes and trying to organize myself , alone from this move….I keep going on to your blog for strength and inspiration, each time I do, it helps tremendously, and I THANK YOU for writing and helping us all!
This is my favourite quote, which I felt was quite apt for this post:
It takes a lot of courage to release the familiar and seemingly secure, to embrace the new. But there is no real security in what is no longer meaningful. There is more security in the adventurous and exciting, for in movement there is life, and in change there is power. – Alan Cohen
Great, great words again. Thank you Susan. So much appreciated.
Sometimes I get used to feeling like such a victim of my early life experiences and it feels like the muck is neverending.
But – and speaking of ‘academic’ or perhaps ‘popculture-academic’ literature – I wanted to mention that the current issue of Psychology Today has a great piece called “The Hard Knocks Survival Guide”.
It was refreshing, as it posits that out of trauma we develop true resiliency and self-knowledge. And cites real-life examples of the value of failure.
In the back of my reptilian brain I know this to be true from overcoming other great challenges in my life.
It’s harder to keep perspective with a freshly busted heart.
But it’s true.
Wishing you all well today.
This is an AMAZING website! I am in therapy but have gained so much wisdom from those going through similar problems.
What a quote to read after I have just “lost” a lot because of a relationship that left me with “very little.” I am trying to rebuild my life after a series of abusive relationships. This last one (he abandoned me a month ago) has been the worst.
I see my blame in it – I was foolish. I was separated but not divorced; I should have ended my other relationship (dysfunctional: my husband had been drunk for ten years) first and became a healthy individual (something that is very hard for a codependent). But no, I got involved with a person with severe Narcissism. I tried so hard to help him and change him…but I was the one who ended up changing.
He was magical. I gave up a lot: my job, my new home, time with my daughter, my moral standards, my church, my ministries. It strained all of my relationships with my longtime friends (because they could see he was loser…I was so swept away that I could not…)
We were seeing each other for a year. I moved out. Changed jobs. On day, he told me at 8:00 a.m. that he loved me and wanted to spend his life with me. By noon he canceled my cellphone, changed all passwords to accounts and would not take a call from me.
Then all of the lies started coming together…and who I thought he was…he was not. The exact opposite, actually.
Two days later we exchanged things and there has been no contact since then. For me, it has been hell.
I found this site and it has helped TREMENDOUSLY.
Thank you all so much for your input and dedication to making people healthy and happy.
I am determined to stop the insanity in my cycle of life.
B.
Butterfly – great for you for getting help!!! That shows your strength! I also was a codependent who gave up my life for a severe narcissist. As you said, the picture I had of him was an extreme opposite of who he really is. I relate very much to what you wrote and am so very impressed by the resilience and strength in your words. Keep moving forward – better things await!! You are worth it!!
Hi Butterfly you are not alone.
Narcissists have a tendency to amputate you from their lives as you have never existed. Do not blame yourself, they draw you in like a magnet. You now have to do the work so that if does not happen to you again and so that you are healthy and will not the red flags and listen to them.
There is no sense in knowing the red flags and proceeding to GO without stopping on the red light!
I share your pain, and know how you feel, it gets better.
Hope and B with a Z:
Thank you for your encouragement. It has been hard for my friends to be there for me since I was involved in an affair. Thank you for looking at ME and not what I DID.
About the red flags – they were there all along. My therapist recommended “The Gift of Fear”. The premise is, if we learn to listen and obey the red flags, we can never get hurt. I am going to order it today.
May we all get through the hard times together.
B.
Butterfly – while I may not agree with your actions, I do understand very much how a codependent who (if like me) receives her self worth through others would be drawn to attention, love, etc from another. Especially by how you describe your relationship with your husband.
It is so difficult to reflect on the red flags that we chose to ignore but how empowering to know that you have control over those decisions and can choose to not be in the same situation again! Also, it is very hard to accept that we were just a part of a Narcissist’s game and that perhaps the relationship wasn’t at all what we had thought/hoped ~ what was very personal and real to us was not to them. Please know this is part of their game (as B said). Find your worth within you and you will not be attracted to, nor attract those who think they can take everything from you – as Susan says, water seeks its own level.
I have been a part of this community for over a year now and I can tell you that there are easier times ahead for you. You have started the path to a better life and a better you, and that is very commendable!!
Butterfly,
Who is the author of the book?
-Greek
G.,
I’m sorry, the author is Gavin de Becker.
Butterfly,
Thank you…that is what I thought…
-greek
Butterfly,
I was involved with a Narcissist for 5 1/2 years. Our relationship was a rollercoaster full of extreme highs and even lower lows. During our last high he told me that he couldn’t wait to marry me and was planning on getting me a ring soon. Then the next week, in our new low, he told me he had fallen out love with me. I can relate to the shock and hurt of your 8:00am to noon example. It’s just whatever they want in that moment. It’s all about them. We can’t even make sense of it. I don’t think even they can. There’s nothing wrong with us…there’s something wrong with them.
<3
Rachel
“Sometimes losing everything is the key to gaining much. Especially wisdom and self-reliance.” ~ how true these words are! I read a quote that said “You never know your true strength until your forced to use all of it.”
Great post Susan, as always!!
It does get better when you do the work. My frame of reference are those days in life that you remember more than others – annual reoccuring events. I broke up with the Ex at the end of April 2008. In June 2008 – I went on my annual diving holiday with my friends. I was a mess. Sitting in the car for the 12+ hour drive to Spain, secretly crying on the backseat of the car. Arriving at the hotel, running towards a computer to see if by any chance he had written me an e-mail. Did that three times a day. Not having the energy to get out of bed. Not seeing the sun shine. Not enjoying the dives. Not enjoying anything at all really. Just feeling miserable.
So, tomorrow, I leave again on that trip. What a difference with last year. Cleaned my house, am already packed, and literally can’t wait to head out there.
Sometimes it feels like we make no progress at all – but then, when one these annual events occurs (it may be Christmas, or your birthday, or anything else) – you are presented with that frame of reference. And all of a sudden it becomes so clear how much progress you actually made. For me, the past year has been one where I fell down, got back up, fell down again, got up again, rinse and repeat. It’s been tough. My lowest of lows was in August, after an attempt of friendship which utterly backfired. Lying on the bathroom floor – screaming – hyperventilating and literally feeling like my reason to live had perished.
But slowly, things got better. I found this site. Started to pick up the bits and pieces I could use to help me to get through this. Did the life inventory. Did the relationship inventory. And figured out I really wasn’t all to happy with the person I had become. Not just inside the relationship – but outside of it as well. Now, I have the opportunity to change.
Even though I’m well past a year after this break up – I’m still discovering new emotions about it on a daily basis. Emotions I apparently hid from myself are working their way to the surface. Some make me smile. Some make me wonder what the hell I was thinking, and doing. But one thing I know for sure : that relationship hurt me SO much, that it changed me forever.
I went to the bottom of the barrell. And what I found there, was myself.
Thank you for that gift, Susan.
Mea Vita
Wow great post! I agree with you about frames of reference.
Yesterday was my birthday and I did wonder off and on if he would remember. But it’s been over a year since our breakup and if he didnt contact me on the first, why would he on the second. But I wasnt fussed about it all – just was a wondering thing.
Turns out my birhtday was probably the best one ever I had – I received wishes from so many friends – when I was with my Ex – besides friends at work and my family – he was the only other persion that would wish me a happy birthday – yesterday I had over 20 contact me! What a difference – I also went to a play with my son and his girlfriend. They are 16 years old but he really did a couple of things to make me feel special and truly loved. It was amazing!
I cant believe how much I’ve changed over this past year and how glad I am to have worked through this process. I dont know if glad is the right word, but it’s certainly gratitude! I’m proud of myself for having the strength and courage to do it and not play games with the Ex. It’s been a long road for sure and like you Mea Vita, I’m still learning new things and revisiting old stuff, but I see the value now in doing that.
I’m changing my name in line with Susan mentioning changing first names to avoid confusion… I know Elles isn’t that common but felt I needed something different.
I am curious, some days I read that for people it takes months/years to move on and re-build. But you sound great. How did you feel at the start of it all? Was it scary and seemed impossible?
Am just asking as sometimes I look at my life and what is going on and I find it hard to envision getting there. Is it just trusting the process and doing it…. then finding things improve bit by bit?
I hope you keep the (was Elles) for a while.
I tend to like names more than non-names but that works for me. :)
For me it seemed scary and impossible.
Thanks Susan – I thought the answer would be like that e.g. it’s difficult at first.
I’ll just have to face it, otherwise it’s back to living my life as it’s always been and meeting yet another abuser a year from now… can’t do it anymore :)
I love this post. I am slowly rebuilding and learning and most of my inspiration for growth has come from this site. I feel myself slowly changing and I know it is for the better.
I still feel like I have been to hell and back and I am still trying to figure out why I made the choices I did. I don’t feel like I am obsessing, but I don’t want to make those mistakes again.
I am taking time for me right now. I am learning what I am about…what I want….what is important to me. The thing that I am finding is that I enjoy having friends. I enjoy laughing without all the pressure of a relationship. I enjoy, no, I cherish the peace.
It has been hard to get used to living with out the drama and turmoil. At times if feels like I am missing something. But that is the uncomfortable feeling that I have learned to sit with. I then realized that what I was feeling was peace. I guess that has been my biggest adjustment.
Susan, I have shared your site with so many others. I am grateful that you take the time to share your wisdom. I am grateful that the posters are honest and open and share their lessons, hurts and triumphs.
Tonight, I am just grateful for everything….and I want to sit with it!!!!
why do i feel so inferior to my ex who left? is it just part of rejection or do i believe that no one else will love me?
The only true constant is change. What we do with change is choice.
I just hate that I wasted 5 1/2 years of my prime youth with such a controlling guy. I can’t ever get those back. :(
I think one of the things that is so hard for me is cherishing the good times with the ex. We had many. When things were good between us they were amazing. But the bad was horrific.
Before this last ex (bananahead) I had 2 very long relationships. Both were very sweet, great guys. In fact one is still one of my best friends. We were best friends before we got together and became friends again after.
We were always better friends than lovers that is why we split.
Anyway I can look back at both of these with lovely memories and I smile to myself about the fun times we had and all I learned from these men.
But with this ex, there is no way I can do that. I feel like because of what he did to me and us, that it completely discounts all the good. I don’t think I will ever be able to look back with fond memories at all. I feel like the good stuff didn’t count anylonger.
That is very painful to me. Does anyone feel this way and does it change as time goes on?
M,
You’re not the only one. I look back on my relationship with a lot of anger for the way he treated me. Sure there were good times but my ex was a narcissistic liar so now I even question the good times. Were they all an act? I don’t know what was real anymore.
Don’t you think that having fond memories would make it harder to move on? I find that my anger is helping me keep things in perspective. This way I don’t get caught up in romanticizing an unhealthy relationship. In the long run they will be happy memories because your heart will have healed and you will find someone who will treat you like you deserve and appreciate you for the wonderful person you are. You will look back and smile and maybe even laugh. I know when I look back on my last relationship (before my recent ex), I can’t believe how silly I was. I thought that breakup was the end of my world and I would never find anyone else. I thought I absolutely couldn’t live without him. Right now I feel that way a little but I keep reminding myself that it will pass. It’s just my low self-esteem right now as a result of the rejection. Everything you’re feeling is completely normal.
M ~ that was the hardest thing for me, honestly. I too had such amazing times with my ex that I cherished and would think of so fondly and then in the blink of an eye he changed into this monster. I was left unable to even look at a photo from our past without wondering who he was, if he had planned it the whole time, if he had meant any of it, and all the other questions that would go unanswered. That broke my heart most. I too have had relationships not work out and yet was able to accept the hurt without losing the good times, in this break up, I lost it all. It just felt like a big charade, a waste of time – the joke was on me (we were together for 3 years). Like everything else, it was just something I would have to accept. Those times may not have meant anything to him, but they did to me. And I mourned the loss of a person that he never really was. I stayed true to myself and to my experience as best I could …
You are def not alone in this at all!
Yes Hope… thanks for responding. I am too trying to stay true to myself and hoping to come out of this better, stronger and with some Spectacular self-worth!! I better get something out of this experience damn it!! LOL
We were together on and off, (mostly on) 7 years… too long with this person..
RaCheer ~ “This way I don’t get caught up in romanticizing an unhealthy relationship” – it is so true!! It is a very important step! Great advice!
Racheer…
Actually you know you are right. I am better when I am really angry at him, rather that sad and missing him. The anger allows me not to wallow so much.
It is just sad knowing that I don’t think I will ever be able to look back and see any fondness there.
He just threw me away like I was a piece of garbage. No discussion.. just poof!! he is done and gone. He did that to me more than once, and I the fool took him back.
That is soo difficult to accept, but I have no choice other than to accept it…
Thanks for reminding me that I need to stay angry about that… who wants to think about a person who does that….
M;
I just saw a picture of “us” while sending some docs in my laptop and it broke me up!
I am here crying my eyes out, so YES it is very painful.
There is no explanation to the WHY people act the way they do. I gather it is just pure torture to remember the GOOD TIMES as they are NO MORE nor will they EVER BE.
I cannot put reason to the way we are part of people’s lives the closeness we achieve, our feelings and sentiments are tossed like trash. I am having a hard time with this, I hear it gets better, I cannot wait until it does, and I am doing this COLD TURKEY with no one to help me in the process.
Good Luck and Stay With it
B ~ there are still some songs that I hear that bring me right back to that pain and/or that love. It is very difficult so let yourself cry those tears. Do not for one second beat yourself up over it!! Please remember that while you may be physically alone, you have help in the process. If you ever need anything, I (along with this support community) am here. There are no words to describe adequately the pain that we feel during this time, but please dont feel alone in it.
Hope, you’re right. There really are no words to describe the pain. If you haven’t experienced it yourself there is no way for someone to understand and sympathize. I hear that a broken heart is the second to the death of a loved one. I have never lost a close loved one but at least with that you know they left loving you and that they are in a better place. You are able to gain some type of closure. With a broken heart, it feels so open-ended and you have to cope with the rejection as well. I honestly don’t know which one is worse. I do know that I wouldn’t wish this type of pain on my worst enemy. I send my love to everyone here…happiness is on the horizon.
RaCheer, I completely agree. For so long my mom begged me to talk to my Aunt (who lost my Uncle to Lung Cancer). She felt that it would help since a loss, is a loss, is a loss. In some sense of the word, it is true. We both had to mourn the loss of someone in our life that was very important to us. We had to deal with the phone not ringing and their sudden exit from our life as we knew it. We had to resign ourself to the fact that a life needed to exist without that person, even though we never imagined they wouldn’t be there. The painful difference is that my Uncle, as you said, loved my Aunt truly. He didn’t choose to leave her. She didn’t have to deal with him moving on quickly, have to see pictures or hear stories about how happy he was with the new partner. I of course, do not wish either pain on ANYONE, but that was the part that I needed to understand and it was something that she didn’t have to deal with. It is exactly that – an open ended ending of sorts. There are unanswered questions that would remain that way, there seems to be hurt after hurt after hurt as you try to move past it. Wondering if the lies lasted the entire relationship or if they just began when it ended. The hardest thing for me was thinking that he was planning an escape for longer then he made me aware. That I had loved him that much and yet it wasn’t good enough. But that isn’t the case. Esp with narcissists.
I completely agree with you!! I also heard that a “broken heart is an open heart.” You are receptive to life in a new way. As much as that was the hardest time of my life, in many ways it was also my best. You just have to be open to it – once the initial shock and depression wear off a bit. It seems impossible but it is not – and you feel worthless but you are not!
Let me elaborate a bit and say that comparing my ex bananahead narcissist at all to my loving devote Uncle was also not fair at all to his memory, and something that I refused to do.
I could not compare two PAINS but it seems that the loss of someone passing on, leaves you with a sense that the person loved you and has passed.
You not longer see them, but at least you do not have to see them with someone else.
I gather this is a selfish feeling that roots from the EGO- but hell! we are human and I for one do not feel like Mother Theresa! REJECTION blended with the loss PAIN is malakoff cocktail!!
My ex and I dated for 5 1/2 years. I was just 19 when we started dating. Now I am 25. We basically entered adulthood together…well at least I did. Haha. I was positive that this was leading to marriage. Now I’m facing the harsh reality that I have to start all over again. My self-esteem is SO low right now, I honestly feel that I will never find another guy…much less another guy who makes me feel the way my ex did. I am very broken and discouraged right now. It doesn’t help that everyone and their mother is either getting married, engaged, or having babies right now…lol. I can’t handle the pressure. I wanted to be a young mom and wife. I really don’t know what positive angle to come at this from. :(
I started dated my ex when I was just 19. Be very glad that your situation didn’t lead to marriage or you could have ended up like me, married for 20+ years and then abandoned and divorced with two children. You still have a chance to have that dream life.
This is the positive angle to come at this from. :)
Thank you Hope, I wish you all were here.
I am going through so much pain, My Mom has beginners alzheimers and since I am the only child there is no one to deal with her things. I am trying to do it while moving, starting a new job and going through the pain of the break up. I guess that this is a very sensitive time, and when she starts accusing me of taking her money, telling me she is calling the police it takes me out if my peace.
Yesterday she threatened to call the police on a very dear friend of mine who is a doctor, and helped me with paperwork to get her the transportation service. I obsessed all night about her being able to do harm to someone who helped me out. She and I were never close, as she after she and my father divorced she married someone that allowed her no contact with me unless he was present. I practically gave then my town home losing 40 thousand dollars he refinanced it three times, and now she can barely make it. I have been trying to help by getting her the OBAMA plan where they lower your interest rate, etc…
in addition much more by doing her bills on line and all that I can, but she calls and accuses me of trying to
make her a vegetable. I have tried three times to give her papers back so that she does her bills, but then she gets everything mixed up, and I have to unravel it taking me hours and hours. This time I am not giving in, I have two doctors appointment with her next week, and one is to the psychiatrist.
I knot this is not this kind of site, but it is something that is adding to my pain…. Thank you for letting me vent.
B ~ although I cannot speak for Susan, I believe that this site is for anyone going through a very difficult and trying time and you certainly are! I am so sorry to read about your current situation. I can completely understand how you may feel emotionally exhausted and how that would make the break up pain so much more devastating. I am so sorry that you have so much on your shoulders and such pain in your heart. Please continue to be strong – you are doing a great job (although I’m sure it may not feel that way sometimes, and is probably something you don’t hear enough!!!) A good support system makes all the difference in recovering from heart break.
Thanks so much.
I find myself going on here all the time, it is my only escape and front with empathetic responses.
I read Susan’s Blogs and they are so inspiring, it makes me feel that there is sanity to the pain I am enduring. Today is a very difficult day. In between the opening of many boxes and carrying very heavy stuff down to the storage I got yesterday, my new boss to be has requested a business plan to have by tomorrow at 9AM
I do not start until June 15 and really do not know
how, where to start. I am going to go for a walk and try to do my best!
Thank you
Hope… it has been 6 months. I still cannot listen to music. Everytime it sends me right over the edge. For some reason music is a huge trigger for me.
M – it is for me also. It’s funny but even songs that are about being unhappy in a relationship I would get sad and think “I wonder if he hears this and relates to it” and I even allowed that to chip away at my worth. Or I’d hear a song like “I’m Yours” and think – I wonder if this is their song? Music to me has played a big devil’s advocate in my recovering … and it’s been a year for me.
It kinda sucks actually. There are a couple of bands that I don’t think I can ever listen to again. They were the ex’s favorites. Unfortunately I can’t ever listen to Jack Johnson..(who I adore) I don’t know if you know who he is, but the ex and I always listened to him, he was our music, every song. I remember being at one of my very good girlfriends house for a get together and she had her ipod playing and a Jack Johnson album came on. I had to tell her to please take it off. It is just too much for me. Pathetic huh?
My only consolation is that I know certain music is a trigger for my ex. I am a huge Sting and The Police fan… like crazy huge… I love him. Anyway after on of our splits and get back togethers I noticed he took all Sting and The Police music off his ipod. I asked him about it and he said, he just couldn’t listen to them because of me.
I don’t know why that makes me feel better, but it just does. I know pathetic huh?
One day it will be better.
Me too. I like Jack Johnson but have not listened to him since the breakup. I have not yet been able to listen to music in general. Occasionally, if it’s a particularly “good” day, I might be able to listen to music while exercising. Sigh. I can’t wait for the day when it gets better.
HealingLC….
Me too. I cannot wait. So many things I can’t wait for….
But one day we will get there!!!
What helped me was listening less to the music we shared together and finding new music on my own that only I enjoy. There is no connection with that music to my ex. It’s mine to enjoy.
Music was a big part of our lives and we had similar taste.
There is some music I will leave for a long time to listen to again. But it won’t stop music being a love of mine.
B.Z.
My heart hurts when I read this. I know EXACTLY what you are talking about – honestly, it would have been easier had they died. That kind of grief is understandable. What they are putting us through- the deception, the abuse, etc. — is not understandable.
I lost my mother to cancer and a former boyfriend to suicide. This grief of being abandoned, lied to and left for dead is FAR WORSE than the grief of death.
It is so hard because they get to go on and have a life without us. Mine has already moved back home and is living the high life, while blaming everything on me. I seduced him, I stalked him, I was obsessed with him…all lies of course.
At any rate, just remember you were in love with the person he “pretended to be” and he really isn’t what you want in a partner. There is someone that will value you and treat you well because that is what you deserve. You did nothing to deserve being be lied to and mistreated.
Butterfly
Butterfly an B with a Z,
I don’t know if I would agree that the grief “of being abandoned, lied to and left for dead is FAR WORSE than the grief of death.” I lost my dad a year and a half ago and I would say that that grief is far worse. I think one of the differences between the grief of the two is that we are grieving a loss of someone who still exists (and who has left us and moved on), and who has obviously hurt or damaged (or abandoned) us. However, the pain experienced from losing my dad is far worse than what I am currently experiencing from having a broken heart. I will one day heal from this and will no longer mourn the loss of the ex, but I will always, in some shape or form, mourn the loss of my dad.
-Greek
Sorry for your loss, greekgoddess. It must be extremely hard…
I think there is no possibility of comparing different forms of grief. Each person is different…(though I also tend to think that a death is more difficult than a breakup)
Greenroses,
Thank you. He is in a better place now, and that makes me at peace with it.
-Greek
Greek – I am so sorry for your loss :( I hope that your memories bring you comfort …
It certainly doesn’t matter which loss hurts more, the fact is that it is very painful and needs to be mourned. The fact that someone chose to leave is both harder and easier – harder to the ego, but easier to recover from because eventually you realize that someone who doesn’t need you in their life, you dont need in yours, whereas the love of a death lives on and is felt in a much deeper way.
Hope,
Thank you for your condolences. I feel fortunate to have shared 27 years with him even though not all were good years. Some never even get to know their fathers the way I knew mine, and some never knew theirs to begin with. I feel grateful for that time.
I agree with “harder to the ego.”
-Greek
Yeah I would have to disagree as well. But I ask that people not compare their pain of loss to others or other type of loss. If I did that this blog would have ceased to exist in September.
Susan,
Agreed. Sorry if my response came off the wrong way. I also need to respect others opinions and feelings.
-Greek
Sorry for your loss of your dad greek…. I think yes you are right there is a mourning the loss of your dad that will always be there, and you are so right, one day you will be over the breakup from the bananahead and will move on.
I think the reason that maybe people feel its worse when someone just leaves you compared to death is when someone leaves there is another dynamic that isn’t there when say like you, your father passed away.
You know in your heart that is wasn’t personal against you. It was just his time. It didn’t mean your dad didn’t love you. I think when someone leaves people have a tendency at least I did, to say what was wrong with me. Why couldn’t he love me the way I loved him. Then our own self-esteem comes into play.
I hope you understand what I mean, I don’t want to over step my bounds. I think like greenroses stated, everyones grief is different and very personal. And only you know how you feel and anyway you feel is the right way.
Again sorry for your loss of your dad. Just thought I would try the clarify what I think people mean when they say that.
M,
Thank you for your condolences and clarifying what was said. I wasn’t offended by what was said, I was just reacting to what was said. I do understand I suppose, how someone could feel that way. I understand the damage that happens to a person’s inner core when someone abandons you (relationship wise). When my dad passed away, I developed all of these insecurities I had never had. It was actually what started some of the issues in my last relationship. It was this overwhelming feeling of uncertainty in life, which led to a multitude of insecurities, which affected me in every area of my life. Both losses were sudden and unexpected. I never expected my dad to be gone forever, and I had anticipated to spend the rest of my life with my ex and that suddenly ended as well. I think it is difficult to make sense of both losses, but I would agree that I have struggled with the relationship loss because of my unanswered questions, whereas I have been at peace with my dad’s loss – something I had to come to terms with in order to get myself healthy again. Hopefully this makes sense….
-Greek
Greek…
Wow… that is a perspective I would never have thought of. That your dad’s passing would create as you said all these insecurities, that also started some of the issues in your last relationship.
Thank you for sharing that, as I can imagine how personal that is for you. It opens me up to understanding just how complicated and wonderful we all are. And that our personal stories really are so personal and the effects are far reaching.
You sound like a wonderful, beautiful young woman and the fact that you are on this site, doing your work, looking at yourself and healing is really remarkable. Good for you. I have much faith in the fact that you will find whatever “it” is for you that will bring you much happiness, peace and love…
I wish that for all of us…
M
greekgoddess2009, I know what you are saying. I lost my dad as a child and my mum a couple of months ago….. in some respects for me I think it’ll be the grief that never goes away. I miss my mother so badly in a way I have never felt about an ex.
I don’t know… maybe different people in your life have different effects on you. Depending upon where you are and at what stage. But I forget the pain that exes put me through…. but I can’t see that happening with losing my mother.
Regeneration…
I am soo sorry for both of those loses. Sending you lots of positive energy and healing. I cannot imagine your pain.
I am always in awe and amazement at how strong people are. What a wonderful person you are who is going through all that you have and still doing the work to heal yourself.
M
Regeneration,
I’m sorry about the loss of your parents. Especially with your mother’s passing being so recent. I have also lost both my parents. Dad about 22 years ago and Mom about 5 years ago. I miss them both very much. It’s lonely to think of myself as being an “orphan” sometimes.
I think Greenroses said it well: Everyone’s grief is so personal and different. It is like comparing apples to oranges. -HLC
Regeneration,
I am so incredibly sorry for your losses. I know all too well how difficult that is to deal with, and for you, you have lost both of your parents, which must be incredibly difficult. I fear the same thing will happen to me and my siblings because my mom hasn’t had health insurance in forever and she recently found a lump in her breast (breast cancer runs in our family). *sigh
Even though I am at peace with the loss of my dad, it doesn’t mean I don’t cry and/or miss him every single minute of every single day. The ex doesn’t even deserve for me to miss or think about him that often so I refuse to mourn him in that way.
-Greek
Greek, thanks for your kind words (and everyone else). I am sorry for the loss of your father and to hear about your mother – am thinking of you. I hope it turns out to be nothing.
Elles
Yes Butterfly…
Love the name by the way. But that is it exactly. I think this grief is on some level is worse than death. Because when someone you love dies… they didn’t choose to leave you, they didn’t want to hurt you. So you can look back and have the fond memories, the love and all that was shared. But when someone just abandons you, you are left with not only the loss but all the implications that come from them just up and leaving.
I read a true story from a woman on another blog. Her husband left her after 25 years of marriage for another woman, they had 3 children together. 3 years later he committed suicide. She never stopped loving him. And they still had to keep contact because of their children. She described the pain as much worse when he left, then when he died.
She also said she got much more support from friends and family after he killed himself than after he left her.
I thought how sad she wasn’t supported when he up and left her, but now everyone wanted to know how she was doing. She even mentioned how she wished she could have gotten that support earlier.
I notice that sometimes when my feelings come up about my ex, some people are like “aren’t you over that yet” “you know your are not the only one that happened to.”
Now I know that aren’t meaning to be cruel, but I think they just don’t get how it feels. They are trying to point out that millions of people are left and get their heart broken, so I don’t feel so alone… but in a way I am alone, my pain is mine and no one feels exactly as I feel. I get that, but unless you are living it, there is no way others who haven’t experienced it can understand.
There is a whole other dynamic when someone you love and cherish ups and leaves you. When they do cruel things and hurt you. It isn’t just the loss of losing a loved one. It is soo much more.
Ps… I just want to say that this is just my perspective, as I don’t want to minimize the way someone feels who has lost someone to death and the pain from that. I am lucky as I haven’t experienced that kind of loss from someone who is close to me. Only those who have gone through that know how it feels. And only someone who has gone through both really know the differences.
Hey B..
I agree thinking of the good times do seem to be pure torture…. it is funny that I can think of the bad times and there isn’t that same stabbing pain in my heart..
Of forget about looking at pictures… I am a photographer so you can imagine the photos I have taken of him.. some of them were really beautiful as I also have an art backround. And unfortunately I will never be able to look at those again.
I couldn’t bare to through them out. It is my art work. So I filed those away somewhere deep in a drawer. Possibly one day I will be able to view them again, but I suspect in will be many years in the future when I have put this far in my past..
I too was tossed away like trash, and that seems to be the hardest part to heal.
When they say your heart is broken, it literally feels like someone slashed it in half.
Keep up doing the work and it will get better. I have faith in that… You are already doing better…
sorry… meant throw them out.
Ugh… I know it – as an amateur photographer, I have the same thing going on. Had my stepdad go through my library and move them off to a USB stick and drive them far away. 2100 photos in 2 years.
Hey Mike H…
Yes it was very painful going through those. I thought someone was ripping my heart out of my chest. I felt like I would vomit. Not a fun experience.
But on a lighter note… nice to see a fellow photographer on here. Just remember how great it will be when you are with the person who is deserving of you and is your “it” and how many lovely images you can capture…
I keep that in the back of my mind all the time.
Once again, another great post. I needed the encouragement written in this. Thank you. Some days are harder than others. This week has been difficult b/c this is the anniversary of an amazing, awesome trip my ex and I took through Europe. Just the fact that last year he was so much in my life and now this year we are NC has me really down. I am slowly sloshing through this muck though — thanks to the things I’ve learned on this site and to counseling. But it is not easy and I have had moments of great sadness over the last few days. I guess that is the grieving part of this process.
I love this post. It’s so refreshing and such a relief to read. Somehow we often think we have to keep trying, keep taking bad behaviour, keep trying new ways to make unworkable, impossible situations workable and possible. But if I really think about it, awkward relationships are ALWAYS awkward (work or personal), the other person is usually invested in it being awkward for some reason. I love a part of Martha Beck’s book (Finding Your own North Star) where she mentions that when she sees people carrying around well-worn copies of books about Women who love too Much etc, she sighs as she knows she is going to have to tell them the painful truth- that there is probably no possible way for this relationship to work out. If you have to buy a book to try – it’s probably not going to work.
I actually think (along with Susan’s suggestions on this site) that those kinds of books are BRILLIANT and abig help (Women who Love too Much was critical to my understanding why I did what I did), but it also made me laugh to read what Martha Beck had written. She was saying that you can learn complicated strategies and techniques to deal with these people – you can knock yourself out and find some amazingly complex procedure – but that the easiest way is just LEAVE THEM ALONE. Which is essentially what Susan is saying too. There aint no fixing these situations. The friendships that I have that I treasured the most worked from the beginning. And the people who were sooo difficult in my life continued to be apart from oh, the odd day in a thousand. Is it worth my peace of mind to knock myself out to try to accommodate their strange behaviour? Not usually. i would be using my time better putting some distance between me and the ones that don’t click with me (and that includes exes) and concentrating on the relationships that DO work.
Let it fall away. It’s such a relief. We think we have to fix everything. We don’t. If they don’t like you – tough for them. Don’t spend one more second trying to fix it or talk anyone into anything. The ones who like you will just like you and it will work like a charm with no effort and lots of laughs. Stick with those – or take some time out until they appear in your life. But they won’t have a CHANCE to appear if you are wasting your time on round 99 with an Impossible Person.
TangoLola
I wonder if I was the impossible person. Im not sure. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
No for wanting more time with him ‘just us’, but yes because I couldn’t tell him that directly.
No for expecting that he would do his share of keeping the house clean and tidy, especially when he expected that anyone should just be able to drop in – I had no issue with that, as long as the house was clean…I certainly didn’t expect him to do it all, just his share, so I felt like a partner, not like a maid.
I guess I never felt like his priority, but that is my fault as much as his…for accepting it.
Am I right that there are 2 Greekgodess’s one is Greekgodess and the other greekgodess2009? Just want to be sure. The more I am on here, the more I am getting to see each individuals stories from their posts and I want to be sure of who is who. As all of you have become like another family and my cheering section and I want to make sure I am responding to the right people and getting you guys straight.
Also thank you Susan and everyone here. Everyone is really loving and supportive of eachother and that is wonderful. Everyday I gather strength and support. And I am so thankful for this site.
Good question, M! I actually thought that it’s one and the same person, logging in as GG sometimes and as GG2009 at other times….but maybe you are two different people? Let us know :-)
I ASSUME it is the same person though, because the signature is always
- Greek
Right? :-)
I guess this is a good a place as any to post this; I wanted to share this consolidation of thoughts I’ve put in a letter. Just to get it out there into the world and share with people who are in as much pain as I am.
Dear K.,
I’m having such a hard time not sharing my life with you anymore. Being such a romantic, I place so much value on shared history and wonderful shared experiences; even the tiny, unmemorable, insignificant things. I weigh those experiences – and how I felt during those experiences – much, much more than how I felt when you would blame me for making you feel unhappy and say something emasculating and abusive. This makes it very easy, now, to split you and only see the positives. However, I need to see everything, as harsh and bitter as it is.
I do miss you so so much. I miss your presence, your being, your smile and laugh, IMing with you at work, getting excited to go pick you up and have a lovely dinner with lively conversation, and hold your hand across the table. I miss your sweet voice and your texting me xoxo’s and doing relaxation for you. I miss our passion and how wildly we’d make love. I miss cooking with you, sharing YouTube videos and helping you with projects. I really miss you putting on some great Drum&Bass, lighting candles while I set the table and scooching my chair closer to you. I miss being your goofball and I miss you quirkiness, your love for animals and your appreciation for technology. I miss picking you up outside your place and getting so excited when I’d see you come out the door. I miss your beautiful body and going away for the weekend with you.
But, and it’s a big but, you treated me like shit. Horribly. For every good time, there was a bad time to follow it. Something that left you unsatisfied – dissatisfied with me. You had hurt me countless times, and I was way too forgiving. I did not respect myself enough or know how to set a boundary with you. You had no right to say to me, “you’re not the man I need you to be”, “I can’t be with someone who doesn’t have the same belief I do about animal testing”, “you’re only 25% the man I need you to be”, “your friends make you happier than I do” or the countless other spiteful, venomous things that you said.
Your demands were unrelenting. Only when I acted exactly the way you wanted me to – expected me to – were you happy. I failed to recognize, or chose not to, that you were selfish from day 1. The entirety of the relationship was about you and what you needed. Never once did you think about one of my needs. Anything incongruent with what you had pictured in your mind was an immediate rejection of me. You found fault with my friends, you found fault with my family, you found fault with my work, you found fault with me. Your expecting me to be 100% at all times put me so on edge. Not feeling like I could make a single mistake was so incredibly overwhelming. It was so hard going from where we started to finding myself feeling so pressured to act a certain way at all times around you, not knowing if bringing up a topic or debate an issue with you was going to be met with tears and then me feeling so scared that I, somehow, accidentally, pushed you over the edge and whether I’d be receiving a phone call the next day saying you’re done.
I don’t think, even after we got back together down here, that I ever fully trusted your commitment. I had seen you fickle far too many times, with so many conditions placed on our being together that I felt like I was walking on a tightrope. I had let you call all of the shots since day 1. My biggest mistake was going back to your place after you tried pulling the plug that 1st time, rather than talk with me about your concerns. You knew exactly what you were doing – it was a calculated move later veiled under the guise of fear of me resenting you, softened by your vulnerability. I played right into it and that first, seemingly small break-up/make-up and passionate love making on the kitchen floor gave you the control and set the stage for my conditioning.
The amount of control that you needed amazes me. You _had_ to be in control at all times, always making sure that we were living up to the fantasy relationship you had in your mind. I paid for that time and time again, and it was exhausting for me to constantly try and match what I knew you were picturing. And that was your definition of love. How many times did you break up with me saying, “I wouldn’t get what I needed, and you wouldn’t either.”? It was never about a single thing I needed. Never once.
I’m only now starting to see, but not yet feel, that what you admired about me was how I made _you_ feel. What you enjoyed doing with me was what _you_ got from it. It was all so incredibly selfish. I need to always see that. Your needs and your claim of them not being met was equal to you saying, “I want more now and if you don’t give it to me you serve no purpose.” When we had started talking again and were feeling one another out, I remember being incredibly nervous about sending you an invitation to see a show – I got so excited about planning that date, but your reply really showed a lot – I felt a twinge of it at the time: “I’ve been wanting to go see that show for a while. So… yes.” Something about it stuck with me and made me say, so if it were something I wanted to do but you hadn’t wanted to, you wouldn’t be interested in just coming with _me_? For _me_ – because you wanted to see _me_?
You expected me to make you happy. 5 weeks after moving here to be with you, your saying, “this relationship isn’t making me consistently happy… and I need to be happy.” You really expected a relationship to _make_ you consistently happy at all times. Afterward, you email me saying, “I’m enjoying being on my own, learning to do it with strength and confidence.” Those words sting so much – they put a pit in my stomach because all I can wonder is what happened to your strength and confidence when you were with me? Where did it go? Why, only when you break up with me do you shift gears and become this other person who does stuff that I would’ve loved doing with you? You’re not a happy person inside. You are so fraught with insecurity. I fed it so so well at times. This veneer of strength, independence, confidence, outgoingness and sarcasm drew me right in. And then I saw all this insecurity that I could protect you from and do a job – rise to a challenge. But that insecurity runs so deep that even my friends and family were a threat to you.
I did some amazing things for you. Many things the average guy doesn’t even think of doing. It makes me so sad that you couldn’t truly appreciate and fully love me – all of me – good with the bad. It scares me to think that you’ll just go off and say, “oh well, sapped that of all it was worth” and go on to another string of 3 month relationships, as you did prior to meeting me.
It hurts me so much the way you’ve treated me. I truly love you and it just doesn’t matter to you. It kills me that you couldn’t care less. It absolutely guts me thinking that I could move away and you would feel nothing about it. I guess I missed the warning sign of you saying I shouldn’t move here just for you alone.
I forgive you for being so selfish. I forgive you for being so messed up emotionally. I forgive you for saying so many downright cruel things to me. I forgive you for not seeing me for everything I am and embracing it wholly. I forgive you for not being able to truly love. I forgive you for hurting me so so so many times.
Every action is met with an equal and opposite reaction. You were always left wondering why I couldn’t get and stay consistently close. I really hope that you take a hard look someday and realize that you made it impossible to. I loved you so very much – and I still have love for you – I miss you being in my life for all the positives, but your mean, spiteful, vengeful and malicious behavior is something I will never miss. But I forgive you for it.
Mike H.
Your letter is lovely, very heartfelt. I can see your love and compassion for this woman. I hope you did not send it.
This letter could have been written by me to my ex..I think all of us on here have those exact feelings.
When my ex and I broke up the 3rd time before the last. I wrote a letter very similar to that. I was kind, I didn’t call him names, I just described my feelings like you did. I sent him the letter… He never responded…Nada… nothing…. and it hurt like hell…..
Later when we got back together he told me that he never responded because all he saw was me trashing him… I never trashed him… I was heartfelt like you. But he saw me blaming him making him the bad guy. That it was only about me….
That is what selfish people do. She will only see you blaming her, even though you are not.
She CANNOT understand your pain.. she doesn’t get it. She only sees her perspective and from her perspective it is all about her… That is what selfish people do…
It doesn’t matter what you did for her, you weren’t perfect and you were punished.
I want to save you from the hurt of not getting a response or not getting the response you want. She will see it as you blaming her, my ex told me the same thing.. Don’t do this for me (ie.. don’t move here for just me) it is there way of not really committing. Of always having one foot out the door.
Everytime something came up with my ex.. he always held over my head as a threat… I am leaving you M, if you don’t do what I want. It was hell…
Don’t hurt yourself.
Thank you, M. You are 100% correct – I wouldn’t/couldn’t send that to her. That was for me, for my own working through… She had a troubled upbringing, too. Divorced parents, started drinking in her teens – her father never around, her mother there too much, helping them work through stuff, acting as a therapist… always said she lived in a fantasy world as a kid. She still does.
It’s pretty amazing to me – last time we had split, her dad took her to Costa Rica for her 30th birthday. When we got back together, shortly after the trip, all she could do was speak negatively about him – that he just wanted to hang out at the resort and didn’t want to embrace the culture/go explore. I remember thinking, look, he’s your dad, he loves you, he took you on this trip for _you_ and wanted to hang at the resort – so what? – and now you’re actually saying that you don’t know if you can have a relationship with your dad because he didn’t want to immerse himself in the culture and made a few off-color joking comments that you didn’t like??! SELFISH!
Good you didn’t send it. I hope just posting it here has helped. I soo wish I would have found Susan’s site earlier, it would have saved me so much heartache…
I did soo many things that she tells us NOT to do… but when you know better you do better. I know better now..
I am just so tired of being heartbroken….
Ooh.. and Mike.. just a ps.. would love to see some of your photographs off site. obviously not the ones of her but some of your other stuff. I am such a photo buff, I love looking at others work. I have a website if you are interested in looking. let me know….
M
Hey M – definitely – shoot me your website – do you have contact info on there? I’ll shoot you some samples. Or you can email me at halsall [/at/] gmail.
I even did the I miss you, I will always love you, I forgive you… I understand… blah, blah, blah… my ex had a horrible upbringing but you know what…he uses that as an excuse the treat people like shit. Mine too was mean, spiteful, vengeful and malicious…. but he doesn’t care. Many people had a bad upbringing but they don’t do to others what was done to them…. Mine did… And it sounds like yours did too…
Yeah, here it wasn’t so much being used as an excuse; the excuse was “I’ve done all this work around it and am so emotionally more mature than you that I don’t need to work on anything else.” But the problems were still festering. I’m tired of being heartbroken as well, my friend.
You guys are great, i wait by the computer for anothe new post. it is what’s been getting me through the day. i reached out to an old friend that i lost contact with when i moved to texas. i don’t have any friends in jersey and felt guilty that this crisis i am going through is what made me reach out. but apart of me does not care because i know how much i am going to need someone when i get back there. we had a falling out because i felt like it was always me trying to keep in contact and her not her ever putting any effort. i hate this frame of mind i always have about people, why do i think sometime people owe me or once i feel they done me wrong i shut them out. i don’t like that about me, my ex was not like that and i know he did not like that about me either. i am the type of person that if you don’t help me move when it’s your turn i won’t be there to help you. my ex never looked at life that way. I only kept one good friend from highschool, one good friend from college, and two good friends from texas. I think there may be something wrong with me. anyone have any advise on this.
danielle,
what exactly do you think could be “wrong” with you? Do you feel as if you do not have enough friends, or not a talent of keeping them?
I would not say that the amount of friends matters that much. But it’s important what kind of friends you have (quality over quantity).
Take your needs seriously. If it irritates you that this girl is not making much of an effort to remain in contact with you, maybe your gut is right, and you should consider whether she is a good choice in terms of being your friend. Is she good for you? That is the question you need to ask yourself (and not so much what is wrong with you).
Maybe you need to make better choices.
mike-
your letter was really good. it had a lot of things my ex would write about how I was in the relationship which makes my behavior unexcusable. but some of it was feeded by him and how he is.I did always find things wrong with his family because I believe there was. I always found something wrong with him because there was. now how I expressed that was wrong. and I don’t think I was selfish I moved to texas for him did lots for him but I did rely on him to make me happy and that’s what I am going to get help for. I didn’t have a life of my own outside of work and that was unhealthy. I want to write my ex a letter and post it that seems like it would help me. I see faults in both of us that contribute to it not working out. he just ended it first where I would have tried to work on it to give it our all first.
Danielle
I relate to you I saw a lot of me in Mike’s letter also.
My ex did provoke and feed on my insecurities.
The text messaging from the cast of characters on the side lines, phone calls, emails and the family and friends that did not acknowledge my presence because the stayed friends with his ex ( the one that cheated on him with a co-worker )
I agree that it takes two to tango, I was willing to work on it but he was not. His communications skills where not there, nor was the desire to discuss anything to work at the relationship. He did not care.
Absolutely – that’s the commonality between all of us: we were willing to communicate, to work on it, to talk it out, to do what needed to be done. Susan, et al., have said to me a number of times: “there was NO fixing this. There was NO making it work. There was NO winning.” It was who she was – broken, unrelentingly demanding and manipulative. She wanted me to change, and then change, and then change into someone else. She wanted me to be someone that I am not – and NO ONE is. No one will EVER be able to live up to what she wants.
I agree that you can’t compare the death of a partner to the end of a relationship. I had this discussion with an Aunt of mine just the other day. She romanticized her relationship with her husband who died 4 years ago. She compared it to my relationship with my ex…..no, my ex never committed to me (in 10 years). My ex left, moved on rather quickly and I am left picking up the pieces of my life, while he (although he tells me he is not very happy) is all smiles with her.
The end of our relationship is completely different. Her husband loved her till the day he died. My partner loved me for a while.
The only similarity is that we both had no choice in it.
Why would an ex want to meet up and talk 8 months after he left me and especially when he has a girlfriend of 5 months (at least)?
Because he wants to see if you are still on the hook.. It feeds their ego. Maybe he isn’t happy, maybe he discovered the grass isn’t greener on the other side, maybe he is missing you. Maybe he feels bad, maybe it is guilt.. But you know what… it doesn’t matter, it doesn’t matter, it doesn’t matter…
Too bad for him… he blew it. Too late, he missed that boat. You don’t want to talk to him. You are better off, you don’t care why he wants to talk to you…he screwed up.. He showed you who he was… Believe him…
OK so everything I said to you is what I would say to myself.. I hope that helps. Of course you are going to do whatever you need to do. Just thought I would help if you were maybe on the fence considering.
He doesn’t deserve your time anymore LisaLisa…
You are worth much, much more…
It is all about their ego. A few months ago I ran into an ex from years ago. He was married (had been for less than a year). We had not spoken with each other for about 2 years. In our short conversation, he still managed to say something suggestive about our last time together. I thought to myself, would I want my husband to be saying this kind of stuff with a former lover? He later emailed me and asked me out to lunch “to catch up”. I never responded. I have not stopped being grateful that things did not work out between us. I can’t believe I use to be in love with this idiot!
I guess I believe that just because relationships end, doesn’t mean you have to never see the person again.
It will take a lot of time after our long relationship to get to that point. But this man was, and is, someone I love, someone I want to be happy. Any hurt on my side is just that, hurt on my side…stuff I have to process.
I can see we both had some immaturity that we both need to work on. His resistance to grow up, and my fear of arguing and standing up for myself.
I don’t think it’s about ego for him. I think he genuinely cares about me. But he doesn’t love me. We both weren’t openly expressing ourselves and meeting each others’ needs because we weren’t communicating them. The difference is I thought we could work on it, he didn’t. If he loved me, he would have.
Hi LisaLisa,
It is good of you to say it was not about your ex’s ego and that he still cares. I don’t think all exes should die and drop off the face of the earth, but just make sure their continued presence in your life is not keeping you from moving forward. Be careful. Don’t let him hurt you again.
BTW, not replying to my ex was tough. After all, this guy is someone I dated for the better part of 3 years until he called it off. I loved him. I had heard from mutual friends that he was unhappy in the marriage and I care enough about him still to feel bad for him and to want him to be happy. I almost said yes to the lunch thing but then this question came to mind: How would I feel if I were his wife and I found out he asked a former lover out for lunch? (Not to mention the suggestive things he already said to me).
I know he genuinely cared for me while we dated. He might have genuinely wanted to catch up because he genuinely still cares, but it doesn’t matter now. I don’t need him to care anymore. His opportunity to care for me ended when he ended the relationship. Also, he is with someone else now and I have to respect HER just as I would want any of my significant other’s exes to respectfully stay away under the same circumstance.
Still, it is hard to let go of someone you love(d).Last year I was falling madly in love and this year I am home on a Saturday night licking my wounds because that same person decided he did not love me. (sigh). I know I will get through this just as I was able to get over the other exes. The in-between time just sucks! I am so glad I found this website. The posts have really helped. Best wishes to you- HLC
Initially when he left (we were together over 10 yrs) and started dating I felt so inferior. Like I was suddenly no longer a worthwhile person. But during our relationship I didn’t feel truly like the priority I should have been to him.
I hope he is treating the woman he is with now so much better than he treated me. I hope she is his priority, not last on his list.
Mind you, I obviously allowed myself to feel that way by not standing up for myself.
I still feel a connection to him. He left over 8 months ago. It’s obviously all in my head. He is with someone else.
Just not sure what to do about him wanting to catch up. Is it going to be another difficult, emotional discussion, is it going to be all about what I did and didn’t do again, is it going to be superficial only, not talking about us at all? Do I need it? Is there any point?
What is the point of keeping in contact with an ex?
The more I learn about myself and about love, the more I want a chance for us, to get it right this time, but isn’t that silly?
LisaLisa,
That is not a silly thought at all. I think it’s probably very normal to look back and to want things to work out. especially when you really care about the other person. I have many regrets from past relationships. But that’s why we are all here. We all recognize that we can’t go back. We all recognize that we need to accept that the relationship did not work and then move on.
As I read your post above, I was struck by the fact that you thought you “suddenly” felt like you were no longer worthwhile after the breakup. But then you say that you didn’t feel like a priority during the relationship either. From the way it was written, it sounds like the not feeling worthy thing started even before the breakup. Maybe this is something to think about? I don’t know, maybe I’m just reading too much into what you wrote.
As far as what is the point of keeping in contact with the ex, I would say there is no point, at least not now. You need to focus on you right now. It is possible to keep in contact with an ex, but only much later and ONLY when you’ve worked on yourself and figured out why you allowed yourself to be in a relationship where you were not a priority.
You need to work on yourself first. Otherwise you are only doomed to make the same mistakes over and over again with your next relationships (whether with him or someone else). I say this from experience. The most recent ex, the one I’m grieving after now, was actually a rebound relationship. I was not ready for another relationship, I had not done the work I need to do on myself. As a result, I ignored all the red flags and fell for a man who did not love me. Looking back, he did not make me a priority, he did not appreciate me and yet I stayed with him. Sound familiar?
Be strong. Make yourself a priority so you can attract others who make you a priority too. -HLC
Is it that he lost any attraction/feelings for me so long ago that he would only consider me a friend, therefore not consider it bad form to keep in touch? I don’t get it.
For a long time I felt I had to compete for his time and eventually I felt like I wasn’t a priority. Like I was tagging on to his life. That is no way to feel. I don’t even know if he can see that. The suddenly feeling lower than him is down to the fact that I can’t look at him without crying, and after the breakup he found it hard to look into my eyes. It’s like he’s ok, he’s found a new girlfriend which must mean he’s ok, there’s nothing wrong with him…that’s crap.
I still cry some very hard tears for this guy. Just an hour ago I was sitting in my car at the beach crying so hard I couldn’t see. This is 8 months on. 10 years is a lot. I don’t think I would be this bad if it was a short term relationship.
HI LisaLisa,
I’m having problems sleeping tonight, so thanks for keeping me company.
Sorry it has been such an emotional night for you. Give yourself as long as it takes to grieve this loss. NC is very important now. Each time you have contact with him, it’s like you’re picking at a scab. It will take that much longer to heal. There’s no magic formula for how long it takes to get over any relationship. But I think the quicker you focus on you and not on him, the quicker you will heal.
Don’t worry about what he thinks. You said above that he doesn’t love you. After 10 years and he doesn’t love you??!! You deserve someone who loves you. Screw him. Keep NO CONTACT with him. He has a girlfriend and shouldn’t be contacting you anyway. Stop waiting around for his love and attention. That should have been given freely to you in the relationship and if it wasnt then he was not the right one for you. KEEP NC! It’s like putting your hand to a flame. If it burns you the first time, it’s only going to burn you again if you go near it again.
Hang in there. I’m off to bed. -HLC
Hi there LisaLisa
In my opinion, there was a time and a place to discuss relationship issues – and that was while you were both in the relationship. For him now to be contacting you and for you to be contemplating seeing him is completely inappropriate in circumstances where he has another partner.
My two cents…
I do appreciate everyone’s opinions. It is tearing me up a bit. It feels like he’s saying ‘no hard feelings, let’s catch up for coffee’.
He actually suggested we catch up for coffee 2 weeks after he ended it. Does he have no feelings or understanding of what I am going through?
He says it has been hard on him too…oh really, I’m sure you are having a really tough time of it, especially when you are going on dates and screwing someone else. What is so tough for him?
Was going to bed and then saw this post. I gotta say, his casual invitation to have coffee and catch up after the break up shows what a total A$$ he is. That’s all it says. No need to read anything else into it. Good night!
LisaLisa
I think, at the end of the day, you need to decide that it is totally and completely over for you. Why do you still give two hoots what your ex is thinking? Frankly, I think this *is* an ego boost for him and he doesn’t care about you enough to let you have any piece of mind and, further, you don’t seem to care about yourself enough to think you deserve some piece of mind.
I know that you guys were together a long time. (Although, I, personally, would think it was odd if I categorised a 10 year relationship as “dating” – but that is just me).
Have you ever gone completely NC with him for any significant length of time?
No, when I said dating, I meant he is dating someone else, since the breakup. Not that we were dating. When we were together, we referred to each other as partners.
I went NC when he told me he was dating someone, strangely enough! I have not made contact with him since. He contacts me. Last time was a couple of weeks ago online, when we were both online and I told him that an online relationship wasn’t what I wanted with him. Then I removed him from my online contacts.
So how is it NC when he can still contact you?
Louise – like I said, I removed him from my online contacts. He knows all my other contact details (phone, home address, email etc). He’s not contacting me regularly. He’s not trying to make things harder. I just haven’t had the guts to say I want no contact. Because I don’t. Because I am apparently not ready to completely rid someone I shared 10 years with from my life, even if he no longer loves me.
I promised myself I would not contact him, and I haven’t since he told me he was dating. Yes, I should have stopped it earlier, but I didn’t. Not strong enough I guess.
Hi – this response may be out of chronological order…I can’t find the “reply” button on our last two comments.
LisaLisa – I don’t know what you want me to say. I don’t want to patronise you and I don’t 100% know your situation…but I know the words I see in your posts…and I don’t like what I see.
I see excuses about his behaviour. Although, on one point we are in agreement – he isn’t doing this to make things harder for you. I don’t believe he is thinking about how his behaviour is making you feel at all! You have said yourself that you didn’t register before the break up and, apparently, you don’t register now.
I see your excuses for your behaviour. Is feeling like crap a better option than taking care of yourself and cutting off all avenues of contact? Change your numbers, change your email address – do whatever you have to do, but do it and do it soon because, it seems to me, that you are still involved in a relationship that simply does not exist any longer or, at a minimum, does not exist in a way that makes you happy.
I only say these things because, it seems to me that you are hurting. I am trying to be careful and not overstep any boundaries (and I trust you and others in the group will let me know if I have) but I cannot think of a nicer way to put it.
There are steps you can take to stop the hurting. And these steps will work. But, you have to want to take the first step.
All the very best to you LisaLisa
L
I can’t see the reply button either. To Louise, thank you. All perspectives help, especially those that tell it like it is. I do appreciate it. Yes, it does seem like he has no comprehension of how I might be feeling. A close friend of mine who is friends with us both said to me that is just the way he is. While I don’t understand how he couldn’t understand. I think he ’sees’ my hurt, and he is clearly sorry for hurting me. I don’t think he sees how his behaviour hurts me. Perhaps he truly believes that I am the one in the wrong? Who knows.
I appreciate all advice. It comes from experience I don’t yet have.
Yes, I am still hurting. But I am better than I was a month ago, and the month before that. The hurt tends to come and go in waves.
They do it (contact again even WITH their new girlfriend on the scene) to feed their ego, in a moment of boredom, or just to prove that yes, they were THE best thing that ever happened to you. And what they did to you before … they will do again. Just maybe after a little while so it hurts much, much more. Please don’t go there.
TangoLola
I’m not sure why, but for some reason this morning I am having a very strong urge to find my ex online, or do a drive by or some stupid thing. It’s been about a month since all contact ceased, finances were completely unraveled, and all ties were completely severed. There is absolutely no reason to have contact anymore. We do not have children together. I was so relieved when that finally happened so these feelings are catching me off guard.
Is my ego so big that I just want to find out how he is living without me? Is it that I don’t know how to live without the drama? Is it that I feel that I need someone telling me how inferior I am so I don’t have to do it myself? Is it that I am just plain insane? The divorce has been final since December although we were still going back and forth constantly until March 2nd, when I finally broke and walked away for the last time. Even after that there were episodes of frantic text-drama up through April. And of course there were the Craig’s List messages. Why do I still check Craig’s List to see if there might be another message? Does this constitute contact? I was strong enough not to respond to online messages or the last round of text-drama, but for some reason today I feel weak. I really thought I was moving forward.
Thanks for listening.
KimD,
These are great questions to journal about. Ask yourself those questions in writing–it will help the moment pass without contacting him and probably give you some helpful insight into what’s really going on with you. Take good care of you and stay NC. You can do this!
@KimD
My advice is to feel the urge but do not act on it. Let it pass – it will. I too feel the urge, but let it pass. I cry, I try doing something different. I do whatever it takes not to contact him. And it’s working. It’s terribly hard sometimes though. I know. Best wishes to you.
I am getting the urge to contact my ex too.
I am fighting with it, I think it is because of all that I am going through with the move and my Mother. I find that when I am in emotional turmoil the urge gets worse.
I have been day dreaming about writing him an email, but i know better and I will get busy and not do it.
I felt the urge haaaaaard today. I have the added incentive of the threat of a restraining order – for showing up at her place ONCE a month and a half after we broke up to say hey. So, pretend you’ve got that going for you and it makes it easier.
I’m so sorry your mom is ill B w/a Z; write it out on papyrus?
B with a Z, I understand how you feel. When things get stressful, the urge to contact someone who might comfort you is intense. Let it pass, phone a friend or a family member and talk to them. I have the urge too, but it won’t change the outcome. He doesn’t love me. Yes he cares about me, but he doesn’t love me.
my ex showed up at the house at 5am so drunk. I was leaving for nj at 7am and he rang the doorbell twice to see if we had left yet. when I got to the door he starting running to a black suv. I ran after the truck to see who it was. some girl was driving and he was so drunk. he said I just wanted to come home and u said u were going to be gone early saturday. I said u couldn’t text me or call u come here do u know what I have been going through tonight knowing I am leaving my home and my life. he didn’t answer. I asked the girl who she was and she said honestly just doing a friend of his a favor by taking him home don’t even really know him or what’s going on. I couldn’t believe he had the nerve to come there knowing my dad was there who wants to hurt him.my dad came out and made me go inside and just stared at him a walked away. the only good that came out of that was I haven’t cried yet today or when I left because I see the person he rather be than be with me and I don’t want that. I did call his mom and told her what he had done because he lives with her and he hates to dissapoint her. she was horrified and said she would try to get him help for the drinking. but she is dying of cancer and has so much on her plate. makes me sad that her boys won’t step up and be men the wallow in their addictions. I am rid of it all driving through arkansas and no looking back.
Danielle
WOW…that is huge. What a loser. That is so sad how he is putting his Mother through more pain when she is dying!
What a selfish and sick puppy. Be strong, Be glad that you are moving on with your life, and Thank God that nothing worse happened, and that your Dad remained calm.
I am glad that you are in control of your emotions, if you cry it is OK you may want to, and the tears will wash out the feelings. I am OK when I cry…still it is part of this process.
I know that one day I will not longer cry about all of this.
Good Luck with your move
Hey Danielle… here are some lyrics to a song by Jo Dee Messina that fits.. made me think of what you wrote…
Good for you, girl….
“Boy you sure look good there standin’ in the doorway in the sunset light
Maybe I read you wrong thinkin’ you could be my Mr. Right
I was puttin’ my heart and soul on the line
Said you needed some time, just a little more time to make up your mind
Well it’s been long enough
Time is up
Bye bye love, I’ll catch you later
Got a lead foot down on my accelerator and the rearview mirror torn off
I ain’t never lookin’ back. And that’s a fact.
I’ve tried all I can imagine
I’ve begged and pleaded in true lover’s fashion
I’ve got pride, I’m takin’ it for a ride
Bye bye, bye bye my baby, bye bye
Don’t think all those tears are gonna hold me here like they’ve done before
You’ll find what’s left of us in a cloud of dust on highway 4
Baby what did you expect me to do
Just sit around and wait on you
Well I’m through watchin’ you just skate around the truth
And I know it sounds trite
I’ve seen the light
Bye bye love, I’ll catch you later
Got a lead foot down on my accelerator and the rearview mirror torn off
‘Cause I ain’t never lookin’ back, and that’s a fact.
I’ve tried all I can imagine
I’ve begged and pleaded in true lover’s fashion
I’ve got pride, I’m takin’ it for a ride
Bye bye, bye bye my baby, bye bye
I’d lost the game I guess
I did my best to win the part
Now I’m leavin’ here with what’s left of my heart.
Bye bye, I’ll catch you later
Got a lead foot down on my accelerator and the rearview mirror torn off
‘Cause I ain’t never lookin’ back.
You can count on that.
I’ve tried all I can imagine
I’ve begged and pleaded in true lover’s fashion
I’ve got pride, I’m takin’ it for a ride
Bye bye, bye bye my baby, bye bye
Bye bye
Ooh baby
Oh oh
Bye bye, bye bye my baby, bye bye
M-
thanks going to down load it from itunes.
me too.
It’s a great county song.. the kind that you play real loud and sing on the top of your lungs… the kind that makes you smile and think yea!! that’s me, I can do that….
Perspective
Hi everyone, I don’t know if you heard, but in Victoria, Australia, earlier this year, over 200 people lost their lives in a massive bushfire.
I just saw a report on tv of a man, who survived the fires with significant burns to himself, while trying to save his 3 young children and their mother, who all perished in the fires.
Puts my pain in perspective.
having a lot of trouble today. yesterday had anger for him showing up at the house drunk at 5am. today I woke up to finish the 12 hour drive to nj and I’m feeling sad,anxious, depressed, very agitated. going back to the blame, wanting answers that I know I will never get. I want to turn the car around and go back to him and I know that he is holding that door shut. I hate this roller coaster of emotions. I’m scared of the future and finding all the things about mike that I loved minus the issues I didn’t like. I wonder why I always found things wrong with him, his family, his friends, basically everytime he was happy or excited about something I knocked it down. u don’t do that if u love someone. I was a never hold a grudge never fight sun shining get along and talk with everyone kind of guy. I tried to change him and resented that I was not confident and secure enough to be that way and didn’t want him to be. he didn’t care what people thought of him and I wanted him to because I do care very much and I am the one that shouldn’t. I wanted things to bother and worry him because so many things always bother and worry me. at least I wanted him to show it. I don’t know. I am rambling but it is helping. I love all of u on here and I wait everyday for new posts.
sorry,
he was never a hold a grudge……..kind of guy. not I
Danielle,
Who wouldn’t feel sad, anxious, depressed, and agitated if they were going through what you are going through? You’re moving on (literally and figuratively). You’re doing great, all things considered. I hope it gets easier for you once you are settled in NJ. Have a safe trip.
I will go as far as to say this website has helped me from abusing myself (binge drinking, eating, escapism) so many times in the last few weeks I don’t know how to thank you.
and of course I do realize that these issues of extreme behavior (binge anything is addiction…) are being worked through with behavioral therapy…although i wonder if I also need grief counseling to console the loss of my relationship.
-A
B with a Z-
After mike posted his letter to his ex we both wrote that we saw a lot of us in his ex. I started reading susan’s book and her a many stories about them being verbally abused or ignored and criticized and how they couldn’t walk away. I am just having so much trouble relating because i am scared that i was their ex and if my ex came on here you would all be giving him advise to get rid of me. Now I know you said a lot of what he did fed your insecurities and so did mine. or maybe my last 4 year relationship that i was cheated on and took him back has a lot to do with me not cherishing the relationship i was in with Mike. I started out adoring him, respecting him, thinking he was so much more of a man than i had previously dated. This lasted 6 months and then he showed me a really bad side of him and that was the drinking. and then it was almost like i lost respect and everything from there got worse. I didn’t trust him to go out and drink, i saw how weak he was with his brothers, i took advantage that he was such a nice guy, then i thought he would make the ultimate move for me to nj and when he said no and we were done and he had the control and become pitiful begging him back and then moved for him but as soon as i was secure that we were together i started to want to control whatever i could his.., drinking, friends, family, appearence, life, and we would fight and he would never fight back, started calling him names, picking him apart, blowing up at small stuff, and then he started lying and dipping and smoking behind my back and would drink when i would come to nj. but i guess i am having such a hard time with how i was and want to blame him but he tried to love me and i just kept pushing and always had an excuse on why i was wasn’t. He always would tell me i feel like i am walking on eggshells with you. i guess i wanted to hear more about how you were to maybe relate a little. I know none of this should matter because i decided NC by moving back to NJ and i will never see him again but having a tough time with looking at myself right now.
Danielle what you have described over and over again is the sick dance of the alcoholic/codependent relationship. It’s BOTH of you and you have to stop seeing this in black and white the way you do.
(Old joke: what are the six shades of grey that a codependent sees? black-white-black-white-black-white)
You truly need to see that you two did the dysfunctional dance of the alcoholic-codependent. So long as you’re trying to pin the blame or the right and wrong on either one of you, you lose.
Right now you must look at yourself and your codependency and seeing that you were locked in a losing battle with someone who changed according to what his disease needed him to be that day.
The dance requires two but the only one you can do anything about is you.
You have got to get off the mental merry go round you are on with this stuff. You’re still trying to make sense out of nonsense and affix the blame somewhere.
You were in a sick relationship with a sick person and you both were responsible for its demise. With both diseases in full bloom, the relationship did not stand a chance.
Unless you want to repeat this history with someone else you have to look at you and change.
I too had control issues with my ex-husband. Are relationship was one long upheaval of red flags, therefore I slowly and increasingly started to not trust him throughout the relationship. From catching him chatting online with women telling them what he wanted to do with them, to multiple, sneaky strip club visits on inappropriate occasions (actually I think they are all inappropriate for married men), never acknowledging important dates for us like our anniversary or my birthday, lying, and irresponsibility with money. I wanted to control everything about him including who he hung out with, never letting him out of my sight, telling him what he should and shouldn’t buy, always checking his cell phone, looking at his internet history. The more I dug, the more I found. I felt like a freaking babysitter, not a wife and a friend. I felt absolutely crazy and completely unable to focus on myself. Slowly he began to resent me saying I was stopping him from being his true self and that he felt completely lost. Ironically, after the divorce he has little to show for. Completely blowing through around 80k of house profits, multiple credit card debt, strange sexual activities, and getting a 19 year old girl pregnant (he is 31).
Now he is out of my life (although I miss our 12 year relationship terribly) there is a complete peace. My current boyfriend who lives 1.5 hours away and has more girl friends than my ex ever had, is 10 times more the man and partner my husband ever was and I trust him completely. Why? Because he has never done anything to break this trust and because he puts more effort into our relationship and appreciates me. The ex never new what he had. He probably never will.