The Abusive and Semi-Abusive Relationship
January 24, 2008 by susangpyp
I’ve written about abuser’s remorse on here, where someone who has been abusive suddenly turns into a puddle and begs and pleads with you as you’re walking out the door. Abuser’s remorse is when this critical, controlling, angry person gets the hint that he (it’s usually a he, I’m not picking on you guys) has gone too far and must pull out all the stops to reel you back in with “I love you.” “I’ll never do this again.” “Please don’t leave me.” “Let’s talk about this.”
But I’ve never done the full-blown abusive relationship post because it is my fervant hope that most of you are not leaving those kinds of relationships. But over the past few days I’ve received email and read comments that lead me to believe that it’s not a small percentage who are in abusive relationships or getting out of abusive relationships.
If you’re not in an abusive relationship but know someone who is, feel free to pass on this post and anyone can write me privately.
Abuse can be physical, mental, emotional, verbal and sexual. It can be but doesn’t have to be all 5. Just because someone isn’t hitting you doesn’t mean they are not abusive.
I hesitate to use the words “semi-abusive” because abuse is abuse is abuse is abuse but sometimes the writing is on the wall and someone can’t see it because they shy away from labeling their relationship as abusive. One of the psychological tricks that a battered person’s head plays is “It’s not that bad.” in the same way an alcoholic might instantly bristle at being called an alcoholic but might be able to wrap his or her head around “problem drinker.” So to avoid turning off the very people I try to help, I allow myself to call some relationships “semi-abusive” but it is like being semi-pregnant.
I was in abusive relationships from the time I was 13 until I was 30. That’s a long 17 years. I immediately gravitated, out of the box, to abusive boys then men (although I shudder to label and abusive male a “man” since he is nothing of the kind. Coward is more like it.) I have come to feel, over the years, that any man who hits a woman or threatens a woman or even pretends to threaten…is not a man. And the solution is to leave. START PUTTING A PLAN INTO PLACE.
From a reader who works in DV. Please heed this advice!: The most lethal time for an abused person is when she/he is trying to leave the abuser. Have a plan and get back up! The news is full (seemingly) nice people whose partner was trying to leave and ended up dead. When in a domestically abusive situation, I say use universal precautions and assume anyone has the propensity for violence. See it everyday.
This is the national hotline and can refer people to help in their area.
1-800-799-SAFE . They can help them with safety planning too.
(if you need assistance I have this person’s email and she has offered to help anyone who needs it. please stay safe!!)
Most of my relationships were physically abusive but all of them had a verbal component and all of them had criticism and control as a backstory.
The number one culprit was my lack of self-esteem. This is not a blame-the-victim mentality. Everyone is responsible for his or her own actions. Meaning, abusers are responsible for their abuse. However, without a willing victim, their abuse has nowhere to go. Later on I would learn “remove the victim” but for years I did not know to do this, that I could do this or how to do this.
I didn’t know that I didn’t know.
I did not know because I thought everything was my fault. I had been raised in an abusive environment and was told that I basically made my mother crazy. Even when I was in therapy in my 30s I attempted to confront her about it and her answer was “You were not the easiest kid to raise.”
Oh really? Let me introduce you to 3 not the easiest kids to raise: my three sons. Not easy kids to raise yet not abused by me and not juvenile deliquents. You can raise difficult kids with rules and limits and without abusing them. And they grow up to be wonderful, non-abusing men. IMAGINE THAT!
But I didn’t know that back then. I blamed my abuse on myself. I obviously made everyone do everything.
Without that mentality on the part of the victim, abuse has nowhere to go.
And abusers keep that mentality going by blaming you for everything. My ex husband blamed me for things he said I was thinking when I was thinking nothing of the sort. I was defending thoughts I didn’t have. How crazy is that?
Once I tried to show him I was a “good wife” and I waxed the floors. When he came home he said I purposely left streaks on them so he would never again ask me to do it. I begged him to SEE that I was trying and I had no intention of leaving streaks on the floor (I couldn’t even SEE the streaks until he pointed one or two feint ones out and I had waxed the floors in FIVE large rooms and he found one or two pale streaks). But I stood there, like a dope, begging him to give me SOME CREDIT for the floor and begging him to BELIEVE that I did it out of the goodness of my heart.
I never REACHED, “Wait a minute. You’re such an ahole to even bring up those streaks and for telling me what my intentions are.” I had been in “on the defensive” mode my whole life. I had no idea how to switch gears and question this behavior on HIS part. It never occurred to me that perhaps this was unacceptable.
The thing is that you become so CONSUMED with trying to convince the abuser that you are not whatever way, you overlook the fact that he or she is a psycho. That’s part of the dance.
It’s very very wearing. You become driven to prove to this person that you are a good and gentle and loving person who would never think or do anything of the sort. Your life becomes one on the defense so you never get to jump over to the offense and wonder what the hell he or she is doing. It’s all about you and how IF ONLY you were less or more or taller or shorter or older or younger or cleaner or neater or thrifty or friendly or not shy or want so much or expect so much or look in the direction of others or not do this or more do more or that or born on a Tuesday or cranky when it’s raining or moody or perturbed or WHATEVER excuse explains why you are abused or criticized or not cared about.
It makes as much sense as saying, “How can I care about someone who wears yellow on Tuesdays? I’m sorry but I can’t.”
But those are the messages and the CRAZINESS of the messages that we receive. I’m sorry oh-unworthy-one, but it’s your fault I act like a complete and utter crazy person. It’s not me, it was that wearing-yellow-on-Tuesday thing you do…I mean who can live with that? If you just straightened up and wore the appropriate colors, I would not be such an insane person.
And we buy it. We run around and eradicate all the yellow from our lives. And next Tuesday we wear pink but that’s wrong too and then black and purple and blue and orange and they’re all wrong too and then the day comes when the abuser says, “You’re so stupid you don’t even wear yellow on Tuesdays.” WHAT? Wait, I thought yellow on Tuesdays was bad. It’s not? Oh let me run right out and get some yellow. There must be something wrong with my hearing or something wrong with my head. So you put the yellow back. And of course it’s “I TOLD YOU that yellow on Tuesdays is NEVER appropriate!!! You just do this to make me miserable!!!”
And so it goes….
You cannot win. You will not win. The goal is for you never to win. And you can just FORGET that any of your reasonings or any of your “yes, but you said…….” or “I was only………” or “I thought…………” is going anywhere.
Not only ISN’T it going anywhere, but the GOAL is for it not to go anywhere. The only rule is that the rules constantly change. The only constant is that you can’t win. The only goal is to keep you off your pins and trying hard to please someone who cannot be pleased. The GOAL is to keep you twisted up in knots and everything is your fault. So there.
SCAPEGOATING
Every narcississtic control freak needs their scapegoat. I’ve written on here that the summer before we separated, I went out of the house to walk the dog. We owned a one family house and next door a 3 family where my husband’s grandmother lived on the first floor. My kids made a path between the houses and everyone came and went in between the two houses. My husband’s friend was up, staying with us. His grandmother, two cousins and brother were staying with her. Several people had keys to both houses.
I went out the side door with the dog and my brother-in-law and friend were in the house. The brother left out the side door and then the friend left and closed the door behind him, locking all of us out of the house. My ex came to find me where I was unaware and walking the dog. He asked me if I had keys and I said I didn’t. Why would I? His friend had locked us out and he stood there, in the street, screaming at ME for not having keys to the house. No one else had keys to the house but it was MY fault. I was the one who got screamed at.
This is a typical “Something upsetting/frustrating happened and we need someone to blame. You’re it.” and you’re always it. And you get into the same mindset. Something happened and someone has to be blamed. No one can deal with the fact that sometimes shit happens.
A lightbulb went on for me that day. I didn’t leave for six months but because that was such a clear display of being blamed for something I had nothing, whatsoever, to do with, I was able to look back on all these times when I was blamed for things I did not do. Things got very clear for me that day. It took a long time because I was the scapegoat in my adoptive family. A role I continued to play because I didn’t know what other role to play. But that day was the beginning of the end of me being the scapegoat.
In healthy relationships blame and castigation have no place. People automatically take responsibility for their own stuff and everyone recognizes that stuff happens. In abusive relationships, whenever something goes wrong, someone is to blame and there will be hell to pay. Whether you’re actually responsible or not.
SPLITTING
The abused sees the abuser as two different people: the one who swept her off her feet (the real him) and the one who is an abusive bastard (not the real him).
BOTH personalities are him. You cannot pick and choose. You simply cannot. It is difficult and sometimes IMPOSSIBLE to understand how this person who did such sweet and wonderful things and seemed to truly and sincerely love you has turned into this abusive jerk.
Stop trying to understand it. Just accept it. He IS an abusive jerk and that sweet person, whether it was real or to rope you in is gone forever. When he gets abuser’s remorse, the old him is not coming back…it’s just a ploy to keep you in his control.
I beat my head against that wall forever…thinking of my ex…when we were going out and the sweet and wonderful things he did. Were they real? Who knows? Who cares? They matter not when he is swinging wildly between abusing, cheating, and abuser’s remorse to rope me back in.
After a while I had to see that the romanticized fantasy I had of him was just that: a fantasy. Even if it had been real at one time, it was no longer and it was NEVER coming back.
Stop splitting. Stop being in denial when he is “normal”. The abuse will be back.
NAME CALLING
My ex called me every name in the book including ones (yes plural) that I would never repeat. He called me names in front of my children and not only didn’t I like it because it was degrading but he was their role model. I didn’t want to have sons who would grow up and use these disgusting phrases.
But after we broke up I banned the word bitch from my house. It was not to be used ever by anyone at any time. I have a list of “don’t ever say these words if you want to live” and of course the n word and the c word and a few other choice ones (mostly racist, homophobic and sexist garbage words) are on there. When I put the word bitch on there it was a personal standard-raising thing.
I don’t like it. It’s too easy to use, too accepted and overused in today’s society but DO NOT say it around me. My sons and my husband have honored this and of course it would be in reference to someone else because if anyone called me a bitch, well I would have to kick them into the street unceremoniously. If they even start with the b word in reference to someone else they usually stop, glance over at me and say “sorry” quickly but that has happened only a handful of times. I’ve never heard my husband use it since I told him, on our second date, that it was not okay.
These standards are what they are after years of withering verbal abuse. I simply have no tolerance for it. I don’t explain it and I don’t let people tell me why it’s unreasonable. Standards. Again. Gotta have em.
Words do hurt and they do degrade and they do humiliate and to think that someone who is supposed to love you could ever call you a name let alone a horrible name, is unthinkable.
Love is an action but it is also what you don’t do. My husband has never called me a name in 11 years. He’s not called me stupid or an idiot or incompetent or anything that is a negative label. It doesn’t fly with me. The first word would be the last one.
For years I listened to name calling and malicious teasing. When I was obviously hurt it was “oh you know I don’t mean it” or “I was just angry” or “I was just joking…” or “I was just…” Well I was just leaving. Good bye.
Verbal abuse or verbal put downs have NO PLACE in a loving relationship. None.
JEALOUSY, CONTROL, THREATS
There is a lot of jealousy, a lot of false accusations and a lot of control by way of those accusations. Again, proving that you’re not doing what you’re not doing. Threats of reprisals. Threats against coworkers or friends because they “know” he’s looking at you.
Trying to control someone’s anger who is completely out of control is impossible.
The Dance That Partners Do In Abusive Relationships
Drama is the name of the game in abusive relationships. Keeping everything swirling on the outside so that two inadequate people with major issues and problems in their backgrounds DO NOT have to look inside.
The abused is just as addicted as the abuser (sometimes more). Get help.
CODEPENDENCY
Abusive relationships are codependent relationships. By virtue of the lack of boundaries and the inability of people to understand that YOUR RIGHT TO SWING YOUR ARM ENDS AT THE TIP OF MY NOSE.
Boundaries are MISSING in abusive relationships whether its verbal, emotional or physical abuse. MISSING.
No one knows “You begin and end somewhere and I begin and end somewhere else.” No one knows this.
If you are in an abusive relationship, you are a raging codependent. Get help.
CHAOS ADDICTION DRAMA ADDICTION LOVE ADDICTION
Even if there is no substance abuse or alcohol abuse there is addiction present. The dance of anger comes from chaos addiction, drama addiction and love addiction. Being addicted to the low of the abuse and the high of makeup sex. Keeping everything swirling on the outside to avoid the emptiness on the inside.
And both people suffer from it.
Misplaced Sympathy
The abused has sympathy for the abuser. WHAT? Yes, the abused doesn’t want to hurt him, thinks of herself as a nice person a good person a loving person and he will see that one day.
Guess what? No he will not. He is a narcissistic JERK who is self-centered and his only interest in you is control and sex. That’s it. Move along. Nothing to see here.
He’s never going to get it. He’s never going to COME TO HIS SENSES. It doesn’t matter how much you FEEL SORRY FOR HIM. Stop it and put your emotional energy into you and your children. RUN AWAY FROM THIS LOSER.
The ENEMY of Abusive Relationships:
Leaving: I always suggest leaving. yes I know it’s hard, but it’s the thing to do. I’ve heard every excuse in the book and as someone who left with 3 kids and no job…I don’t exactly buy any of them. GET OUT.
Again: an urgent reminder from a DV specialist: Have a safety plan in place first. The most lethal time for an abused person is when she/he is trying to leave the abuser. Have a plan and get back up! The news is full (seemingly) nice people whose partner was trying to leave and ended up dead. When in a domestically abusive situation, I say use universal precautions and assume anyone has the propensity for violence. See it everyday.
This is the national hotline and can refer people to help in their area. 1-800-799-SAFE . They can help them with safety planning too.
PLEASE STAY SAFE!
I know I was so angry the night I left I could have killed my ex. But in other situations he could have killed me. He was screaming that I was not taking his children.
I also had an ex boyfriend who tried to kill me on 3 separate occasions after I left him. One night he laid in wait for me and as I headed up my street he ran in front of my car. The next thing I knew he was in my car telling me to drive. When we got on the highway he tried to take the wheel and crash us, saying, “If I can’t have you, no one can.”
These people are psychos. STAY SAFE.
Then these are the enemies of the abusive relationship:
Self-esteem: people who have it won’t tolerate abuse. Get some.
Boundaries: people who have them won’t be abused. Get some.
Therapy: people who are in it can get to the reasons why they’re in abusive relationships. Get some.
12 step programs: if you have issues like codependency, substance or alcohol abuse (yours or someone elses), love addiction, sex addiction etc etc etc get to the 12 step program that you need. Get names, get numbers, get a sponsor. Get help.
Women Who Love Too Much by Robin Norwood: READ IT.
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie: READ IT.
Men Who Hate Women and the Women Who Love Them: Susan Forward: READ IT.
ME:
I am living proof that there is life, a good life, a GREAT life, after abusive relationships.
I am happily married to a man who loves me…but only because I loved myself first.
Get out, work on yourself, love yourself and watch life happen.
YOU CAN DO THIS.
PLEASE KNOW YOU CAN DO THIS!!
Applause. Applause. Applause. I wish I had known this way back when. When we don’t know it, it’s simply because we don’t know better. Comes a time when we have to get it, or we face the prospect of losing everything. And if we lose “them,” in the end, we’ve won, or at least we can begin the process of learning a different way of living, thinking, defining what love really is. It’s such a nebulous and difficult journey, and we know “they” are as they are because they got the short (or sharp) end of the stick somewhere way back when, too. So it’s easy to fall into the saviour trap, or as one very dear friend once told me, “to love them into healing.” She finally left when his knee was on her neck, and she fled into the night with the clothes on her back - after she regained consciousness, that is.
And it’s not always physical. The verbal and emotional onslaught can be just as soul killing. Brainwashing is not out of the question. For who are we to believe, if not the ones that we love, or who say they love us? What a sad and sickening testament to Love, and misguided trust.
But the big AHA comes when “we” finally get it. To finally comprehend that we have had a part in the dance. I once wrote something about if they had to arrest him for my “murder,” (figuratively, since I just felt dead), that they would have to haul my lifeless body in as well as the accomplice to my own demise. One of the most sobering thoughts I had to digest in Susan’s words here was that if we are participants in an unhealthy relationship, we’d best be looking in the mirror to see yet another unhealthy being. The difference in them and us, when we decide to CHANGE, in whatever form that takes, is that we make that decision to take responsibility for our lives, for action or inaction, for our pasts, for our future, for our sanity, for our hearts and for our souls, or maybe for our survival. We take responsibility - they continue to BLAME, or just don’t do anything at all. I cannot even blame him so much anymore, because I didnt’ know better, until I did, and I allowed it, until I didn’t anymore. And not allowing it meant leaving. And it’s still hard and it still hurts, but now there are more better days than bad ones, and deep down, I know the truth of it. But no matter how much we can rationalize their damaged selves, there’s still no allowance for their mistreatment of us. No excuses. No more free rides.
Thank you for this one, Susan. It’s important. Sometimes this is a hard one to get your mind (and your heart) around - one of those forest for the trees things. Love blinds us to some things, especially to the things we don’t want to see. But the time comes for us to take the blinders off, and deal with Truth, and stand up, straight, and walk out the door. Into our new lives…..even if it feels like we’ll be crawling for a while. No matter, it’s movement and direction that count. Keep on keeping on, everyone. We’re going to a better place.
Thanks Susan, that really helped and I am beginning ‘to get’ what i have allowed to happen to me, through not knowing. one question though, why if my ex is the abuser did HE decide to end it ?(even though i had been contemplating it my self but torn as descibed above) is it remorse he feels, and just doesn’t want to admit it and thinks by ending it he can start afresh? forget he did those things to me,? did he realise to himself his role in all this and think oh my god i hate myself, or does he truly believe i am the problem and ended it because he couldn’t be with me anymore. just wondering.
as i was reading the above post i was nodding my head to everything especially the Yellow part. although i do remember myself saying the words ‘i was only joking’ which i said because a) i WAS only joking, i have a dry sense of humour and he took offence to it. or B) i could tell he didn’t like my opinion or feeling, but i know now i am entitled to MY feelings and opinions, we don’t share the same head, so what if 2 people disagree of have differing views, as long those differences aren’t fundamental then it’s no big deal, obviously if he is a racist and you are not then that is fundamental, or like to break an egg on the side of the pan once, and he likes to do it twice, neither is wrong, but he will say his way is the right way and your way is wrong, thats just silly, and petty. (which did happen alot with me and him), plus i know the reason why ‘we were getting on’ as well as the above, but because when he did the controlling thing, put me down thing, the yellow thing etc… all as desribed above, i would say no, you said this, this and this, (i do know my own mind) or if said my thoughts were wrong the ones you defend but were thinking, or the thoughts you were thinking but he didn’t like, i would say look, i do have my own opinion here, aren’t i allowed? to which he would argue back. etc…. i am beginning to see………slowly
Thank you! xxx
supposed to say ‘we weren’t getting on’ above
‘the ones you defend but wern’t thinking’ sposed to say
Stephanie: the kicker is when the abuser ends it. It is originally to punish. It’s testimony as to how much stuff is “built up” in their own heads. That they are the misbehaving party and yet they end it. I went through this with my ex. I left but then I wanted to get back together and he was critical and told me everything that was wrong with me as if I would be blessed to take him back. Right.
Hang in there Stephanie. Keep working on you. You might want to read those books. Be good to Stephanie.
Awesome! Awesome! Awesome! I loved this post. I agree with what you say here. You wrote self-esteem…get some. I know that I have been in emotionally and verbally abusive relationships because my self-esteem is low. How does one go from growing up feeling bad about yourself and even worse as an adult because dating critical, unfaithful, unloyal men to having high self esteem? I would love it if you would post some specific steps that we could print out to increase our self esteem. I loved when you wrote that your now wonderful husband loved you because you first loved yourself. I just don’t know or really understand how to love myself when most of the time, I don’t feel like I even really like myself or that I matter. After being dumped by every man I loved and blaming the failures on myself and feeling like a failure in my personal life, I don’t feel like I’m even close to liking myself anymore and I know I need to get there before I will have true love in my life. Thanks Susan.
Lisa Anne
I just want to add that Susan is totally correct that the most dangerous time is when the abused is trying to leave. I had an acquaintance (she was my friends best-friend) who FINALLY left her physically and verbally abusive husband. Went into hiding on a friday. Thought it was safe to go back to the house and grab some stuff the next day when her husband was supposed to be golfing with a friend. My friend went with her. They were in the house, the husband had been watching for her, came in, had a gun; Long story short, he shot the wife in the head then turned the gun on himself. Both died. Left two children behind. My friend witnessed the entire thing, is lucky that she wasn’t killed as well. (Obviously she has been traumatized for life.) I still don’t understand why they didn’t have the police escort them back to the house to get her stuff, but having never been in that situation can’t even begin to understand how the victim thinks or has been brainwashed to think. PS there is absolutely no one kind of person who abuses, these people were well-educated, employed, upper middle class people!! It can happen to ANYONE.
I’m grateful that I’ve never had to experience the kind of abuse that would make me fear for my life - though I do always think “there, but for the grace of God, go I” because I have all the characteristics or behaviors associated with a victim of abuse. I’ve always told myself that I would never allow a man to put his hands on me, and I’m sure I never would NOW, but I think before it could have happened easily, despite my “never me” philosophy. And I’m sure it’s a different situation altogether when you’re in the midst of the craziness. Not to mention that I’ve allowed myself to be abused emotionally and verbally, so how much of a jump would it really have been for physical abuse to enter the scene? So…my point is that I’m glad I’m learning these things and working on myself so I don’t EVER have to experience that. My ex, in at least two arguments that I can remember, called me an *sshole during the argument, as if it were my name, as in “*sshole, I told you…” I realize now that my “extreme” reaction to this and the reason I got so angry at him for it, was because deep down something was trying to tell me “THAT IS NOT OKAY”. Of course, when I expressed this to him, his thing was “well, sorry, but you were acting like one” and accused me of just trying to change the subject away from what the original argument was about. Why?!? Because I was standing up for something I felt strongly about?? That’s where my “no win” situation came into play all the time. I either suffered in silence by not expressing my feelings or opinions in order to try to keep the peace, or I tried to say how I felt, and was (a) accused repeatedly of “just being too sensitive,” (b) made to feel that my feelings were totally invalid or inappropriate, ie “it’s not a big deal,” and/or (c) told I just had “PMS and needed to relax.” If that was the case, I would have needed to see a doctor to stop the blood loss from all those periods, because apparently I was having several every month!!! It was infuriating - I know I am responsible for my actions, but in that crazy-making situation, I’m not surprised that yes, sometimes I did fly off the handle and “go nuts” over something that NORMALLY wouldn’t be that big a deal, but what is normal about that situation?? I mean, when you’re the ONLY one reacting to anything, and the other person is constantly on “autopilot,” and not reacting at all, it’s very hard to get a handle on what an appropriate response is to anything. And then I started to feel like maybe I WAS the crazy one. But the more I tried to stifle my feelings to avoid being “too sensitive,” the more I found myself exploding at the least provocation. And then got blamed for that too. (Wow, I am starting to see that my relationship was at least emotionally abusive.) I remember a specific instance that sticks out in my mind like it was yesterday - we had two cats, and a very old, crappy house that our landlord refused to fix up. One night, one of the cats was sitting in the window in the back room, and leaned against the screen, which was wood-framed and rotting out of the window. She fell out into the backyard when the screen frame gave way. They were not outside cats - they were front-declawed and defenseless outside. There were no lights in the backyard, so I had to rush out and try to find her in the dark. In her confusion at being outside, she went into a neighbors yard through a hole in the fence. My ex drove the car around to the next street over to see if she’d come out that way. To make a long story short, I ended up being able to coax her back into the yard with some tuna fish, and my ex and I were finally able to grab her and get her back into the house (she does NOT liked to be picked up). Well, once we were inside, and the adrenaline started to wear off, I lost it - I had almost lost one of my “babies”! I was sobbing. What was his response?? He got MAD at me for being upset and just could not understand WHY in the world I was crying when she was fine and safe back in the house. Just didn’t get it. So then I cried about the cat AND about the fact that my insensitive “bananahead” (to quote Susan) boyfriend couldn’t even have the least sympathy for how I was feeling. But I was the *sshole. Right. So I guess I was also the *sshole when we went out to the bar one night, and I was tired and wanted to go home. He was having a good time with his friend, so I said, you stay, I’ll go home and get some sleep. He said fine, he would get a ride from someone or walk (the bar wasn’t that far from our house). I went home and slept until I woke up around midnight and he wasn’t home yet. So I called and asked him when he thought he might be getting back. Told me he was going to finish the beer he was drinking and head home then. I feel back asleep - woke up to him stumbling through the door, completely wasted, at 3:30 am. He then proceeded to the bathroom to puke all over and then come to bed next to me covered in his own mess. I was livid. I yelled, I screamed, but he was so gone he couldn’t even speak English. I cleaned up the bathroom, put him in clean underwear like he was a damn baby, and being so furious with him, just could not sit there in the same space with him. So I left him a note on the bathroom mirror and went to my mom’s for the night. The next day around noon, I get a text from him. To apologize?? NOOOO - he was MAD AT ME for leaving him like that, saying that he’s “glad he actually woke up since no one was there to make sure he was breathing”. WHAT?!?! Right, because I was the one who shoved a funnel in his mouth and poured in the beer…but yet, it would have been MY FAULT if he’d gotten alcohol poisoning and died. I now see that he ridiculous, not a man, but a large, spoiled child who has no idea how to take responsibility for his own feelings or actions. I’m actually starting to feel glad that I got away from that mess. And I have a date tonight. So there! ;-P
Wow, sorry for the loooong post - guess I was on a roll!! :)
Lucy: don’t apologize for letting it all out. :) Glad you shared!
He was king baby sitting on the throne! Good riddance to bad rubbish!
I have been struggling for months over this separation thing. My husband left five months ago. I see the abuse, I get it but I can’t seem to stop myself from trying to prove to him that I did love him. He plays the victim to the fullest extent. I live in a cloud of guilt. I just don’t know how to put a stop to this. It’s hurting my friends who have stood by me and helped me through this. If I don’t take his calls and text messages, he uses the kids, guilts them and gets them to control me through guilt. My kids are angry with me and half want him back and half want this stupidity to end. They believe and he convinced them that I have no right to move on with my life, he is being punished enough after all because he didn’t mean to have the affair, break my nose, ribs, ankle choked me and put holes through every wall in the house. He is just a nice guy after all and IF I just did as I am told he would quit hurting me. Some days I really feel that I could have managed his abuse, If I would have, all the people around me wouldn’t be hurting so much. I want to stand in the middle of a field and scream!!!! Like the writer I have spent a lifetime being abused and I feel so powerless to stop it.
Yvonne: you are not powerless to stop it. You need to put boundaries in place. He cannot control you through the kids unless you let him. You MUST put boundaries into place with your children and let them know it is not okay for them to tell you what to do. You are NOT powerless and you have nothing to prove to him. You need to tell your children that it is not okay for dad to comment on you moving on with your life and you need to not listen to this. You don’t need to explain anything to your children EXCEPT that you love them and that you are there for them and that you need to do what you need to do for you.
If he abused you in such a way you do not need to make it OKAY for him or your children or anyone else. You have an obligation to your children to show them, by actions, that you do not need to put up with abuse or mistreatment. That is how you break the cycle of abuse. You need to model for them that what their father did was NOT OKAY and you need to make that message very very clear.
You are not a victim. Stay strong and forget what he says. you do not want to hear it from him or from the children. You need to move on and stop worrying about what everyone thinks of that.
Take care of you.
I’m so grateful whenever anyone publicizes the dynamics of abuse, especially in the emotionally abusive relationship. So many women (so many people) think if you don’t have bruises and scars on the outside, it must not be abuse. But the bruises and scars on the inside are the hardest to heal because they’re invisible when we don’t validate them.
I was drawn into an abusive relationship when I was very young and, frankly, didn’t know any better. It was, in fact, my first serious relationship. (There’s a great foundation, huh??) I didn’t even understand what was going on until one of my college psychology classes introduced me to personality disorders and it hit home that I was dating a pathological narcissist.
Two sites that I’ve found very helpful and that I would encourage others who have “danced the dance” with an abuser to visit are narcissism authority Sam Vaknin’s site and the MSN support group for survivors of abusive relationships with narcissists.
Susan, thank you so much for this encouraging, informative site and for sharing your life story with everyone. What a wonderful influence you are!
Wow..this describes my current situation to a tee..Really mind blowing and crazy that it feels like she just read my mind and said and wrote things only my best friend would know.I am in a roller coaster drama infested relationship with someone who does verbally abuse me and once has hit me.Yes i feel ashamed and like a pathetic loser for even saying these things aloud but also writing them.Its like i know i NEED to get away really i do but my heart yes its crazy i do feel sorry for him and dont wanna hurt him?? I am SICK right? this post is exactly us we go back and forth and his abusers remorse is what gets me right back in when at the time i feel strong..like YES i am leaving no matter what..then here we go again this psychotic dance.He obviously lies,i believe him and were back again and the same point again..its like i can see this relationship is going NOWHERE but i still cant go because YES i have unresolved grief and you described it perfectly i necessarily do not love this person this much its the not having to deal with yet another loss..I am gaining some insight and understanding of what i need to do and i just need to find the “old” me who would never take this crap from anyone..but she has been lost–the strong person i used to be..I WILL find the strenghth it just will take time on my part and getting a gameplan in motion. I have awesome parents that will take me back in but the sick part is my mom says if i go back home she says i know i WILL have to cut him off completely and deal with it ALL and face myself,my issues and the pain of yet another LOSS..So i am afraid of ME i guess..Thanks for listening this just really hit home and i really need to re-evaluate and get to moving on!!
I would like to see more information about neglect and isolation as abuse. My exboyfriend was not outright physically abusive and he didn’t hurl insults, but he would hold me at arms length and neglect me, and if I said something about it he would always threaten to leave, or leave outright. I ended up feeling like I was walking on eggshells, could never ask him for anything, and wasn’t worth his time. It killed my self esteem.
He also used an STD to keep me “his” and make me feel like I couldn’t move on. He lied and manipulated me into thinking he wanted a family and kids and then told me later he could never give that to me and treated me as if I was ridiculous for thinking he could. This kind of manipulative abuse — which would probably fall in the narcissistic abuse category — is not discussed at all in these abusive relationship sites. It might be one of the most damaging and insidious forms of abuse, because you end up just feeling as if you are going crazy. It’s hard to pinpoint it. When I would confront him and say he clearly didn’t want a relationship and that we shoudl end it, he would say how much he loved our relationship and wanted to stay, but in the same breath tell me that he didn’t love me, “yet”. This went on for 2 years.
Anyone have any reading suggestions for this? If not, maybe I’ll do my own site! Or support group…
Sk–You are NOT alone, You can email me–ccrazeegyrl@yahoo.com–I am in this so called realtionship now..we live together and this has went on for a year now and i am trying to evaluate my situation even though i know what needs to be done.I feel the exact way the walkiing on eggshells cause no matter what i say its wrong or if hes having a bad day its all my fault somehow and the insults..alll do KILL your self esteem,i feel horrible at times.My mom boosts me back up reminding me of the real me i USED to know.It feels awful to think you cant ask for anything and yes not worth his time–thats me how i feel.YES mine is a master manipulator–i saw how he did it to others in his life all to get what he wanted and NOW me too..manipulation i too think is the most damaging–Thank you for saying that.I at times feel as if MAYBE just maybe i am the crazy one but i know in my right mind im not nor ever was.HE is sick and doesnt even remotely see it or anything wrong with his behavior.The only time he ever recognizes his behavior or OWNS up to it is twice when i REALLY was leaving him and he knew i WAS(keyword) was serious.Then the manipultaion of he’ll do better,try and controil his mouth and anger,counseling yadda..ya..My merry go round is STILL going round cause i am letting it..i am trying my hardest to leave and getting a gameplan togerher now..
SK - I went through that too and am very interested in learning more about that type of abuse. I thought that I was crazy because he technically never hit me, but, as you said, he punished me and made me feel like I had to work for his love and forgiveness when in reality I did nothing wrong. He took away any affection from me (to the point where I would pretend to be asleep when he came home so that he would have to touch my back!). He would make me feel so wrong for crying or being upset. When I did cry he would turn his back on me, and even went so far when we would fight and I would raise my voice (crying mind you) he would back up like he felt threatened or flinch like I was going to hit him! He made me feel like I was abusive and then some days would admit that he hated himself for using me like his doormat and punching bag. I am sorry, it can’t be both. And I still struggle with my self esteem because of it, and sometimes feel like I am a monster - when all I really did was love him! He was prince charming in the beginning and a monster at the end, and I felt like I made him that way, and I deserved it because you are supposed to bring out the good in someone not the bad…
Christie and SK:
Abusers are masters at creating chaotic, crazy-making relationships where the abused feels like the abuser or the abused feels responsible for turning an otherwise good person into an abuser. THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE. We do not have the ability to turn someone into a monster or an abuser. Nothing we do MAKES someone abuse us. If the abuser ever decides to get help for him/herself, it will take A LONG TIME AND A LOT OF PROFESSIONAL HELP for them to change themselves. It is not often that they get to that point of admitting they have a problem and seek help on their own.
If you are staying with an abusive person because you want to “love them” into change…you are enabling them. They need someone like that, who thinks that way, to be the other half of a dysfunctional relationship. When I was in a mentally/emotionally abusive relationship, I had to first get out and THEN examine my own problems. I couldn’t figure out my stuff while doing the dance with him. I couldn’t figure it out while dating anyone else, either. Focus on getting help for yourselves. I hope you will first take yourselves out of harm’s way.
Be safe.
Here’s a good post about guilt and staying in a bad relationship:
http://gettingpastyourpast.wordpress.com/2007/09/30/930-tftd-guilt-as-an-anchor-to-a-bad-situation/
I’m abusive, to those that I love. This is a real problem. It hurts them and then it hurts me to see them in pain. This has just been brought to my attention today. Its right, I am. I want to stop. How? What do I do? Who do I talk to? What should I do instead? I want a better way to work out conflicts. I need a better way to love.
Any advice is greatly appreciated.
-Crystal
How do you rebuild yourself afterwards? How do I deal with the fact that the man I love so deeply is manipulating and hurting me? How do I not feel stupid for staying? How do I not just want to die? How do I stop crying? How do I process that I made a mistake and put so much of my mind body and soul into someone that doesn’t truely love me like he said he did?
Sidney: You start with you. You look at your life and your attraction to people who hurt you. Where does that come from?
You didn’t know that you didn’t know so you don’t beat yourself up.
You do your grief, build your life and move on. You can do this.
Honestly, emotionally I have checked out. I told him it was over today and ended up calling him right back because I love him so much. Valentines day is tomorrow and I’ll feel like a loser being at home alone. Its weird like I see how I’m harming myself but I just can’t stop. I know he’ll keep abusing me but that feels better than dealing with another failed relationship @ 24 years old. Its like I crave love or something. This will probably end badly.
I didn’t talk to him for like a week. (I’ve went as far as a month before) Last night, he called from a pay phone so I wouldn’t recognize his number. He said, “are you trying to forget about me, you don’t want me, tell me you don’t want me” For some reason after he calls I get emotional and I can’t tell him its over.
Sidney: I suggest you get some therapy. You care about him more than yourself.
No one deserves to be abused but you’re opting for it.
I need help! I realized I was in a verbally abusive relationship a couple of months into my marriage. We started therapy just after our first anniversary and have been there a few times. I was ready to leave just before we started but figured I would give it a try. Am I just delaying the inevitable and putting too much faith in this or should I give it awhile longer. Things have gotten better but the woman I married should be able to control her mouth and what comes out of it if she really wanted this to work. I need some feed back please
Thank you all for sharing your stories. I keep reading them every day to realize that I am not alone and my recent break-up situation is not unusual. I am drawn to this “abusive - semiabusive” section because I am trying to figure out if I was in an abusive situation. Like some of you - I spent a good chunk of time feeling like I was walking on eggshells, being very careful not to upset him, and accepting his “I’m damaged goods” self-flagellation. We broke up on New Year’s Eve. He told me that we are not compatible because I am too optimistic. WHAT!!?? He exhibits traits of narcissism and is a prominent politician where I live. I cannot get away because he is always in the news and he is involved with my workplace. I feel like a crazy peraon because I can’t express myself fully and I don’t know what to do! I do not have any urge to contact him but do not feel strong enough to resist the phone that has recently started ringing again. Last time - he told me “You don’t deserve to be spoken to the I way I spoke to you.” Yet - he did not apologize. I can’t stop thinking about the what could have been - and although my head knows that this situation was a disaster (he never once told me he loves me in 4 years) - I am having a difficult time growing my spine and walking away. I feel more devastated now than I did when it first happened. It’s like some part of me - maybe my “too optimistic” part - is gone. I used to be albe to think that everything happens for a reason - but I am so so tired. I don’t know that I am capable of thinking like that any more. I appreciate all of your stories so much. Thank you for being here.
Anne,
I can relate to feeling “so tired”. When I first experienced the crazymaking behavior of emotional and verbal abuse I was confused all the time. I wanted to believe the person who was telling me all these things about my reality and our reality. But my gut kept telling me, “This is nuts!” Later when I learned something about the gaslighting aspect of abuse, I understood better why I felt confused all the time. Gaslighting is a behavior of the abuser that attempts to restructure the reality that’s designed to keep the victim off balance. It’s controlling behavior to confuse the victim enough so that she begins to doubt everything: her perceptions, her beliefs, and her identity.
It’s devasting. Overtime, the victim’s self-confidence, self-will, and self-knowledge is eroded. She’s convinced that what is down is up; what is up is down. The abuser and the abuse stands reality, as the victim has known it, upside down.
I compare the effect of abuse to brainwashing. Brainwashing that is not unlike brainwashing that prisoners-of-war experience. It involves a subtle system of intermittent rewards and punishments that gradually wears away the self and identity of the victim or prisoner. With the prisoner, the goal is is to condition the prisoner to maintain his own captivity. I believe it is the same in abusive relationships. Ultimately, the victim stops cueing in to her own instincts or intuition or perceptions to determine the sanity or insanity of the abusive situation. Instead, she turns to the abuser to arbitrate her reality and define who she is. Also, eventually the victim believes, not only what the abuser tells her is so, but she believes that her very survival depends on her abuser. Deep down, she believes she needs her abuser to survive — without him, she will die. She cannot live without him. At this point, the brainwashing is complete.
This is how I see emotional abuse. I consider much more devastating, much more insidious than physical abuse. It’s more debilitating because often people around you will “explain it away.” And it can be hard to find support as you wade through the layers of deception and delusions of the abuser, as well as your own, and perhaps, that of your family and friends.
When I suspected I was being emotionally abused it was at a time when NO ONE recognized verbal and emotional abuse as abuse. Certainly no one was acknowledging that you could be suffering from “battered wife syndrome” just from verbal or emotional abuse.
My advice to you, Anne, is TRUST yourself. Trust what YOU are feeling, what you think is going on. DO NOT believe ANYTHING this guy tells you.
Here are some books that helped me identify the abuse, the abuser, and my feelings:
The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans
Without A Conscience by Robert D. Hare
The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists by Eleanor Payson
In Sheep’s Clothing: Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People by George K.Simon
Trauma and Recovery by Judith Herman (explains how serious the trauma of abuse can be; why it can be life-threatening during the trauma and after it ends.)
Also, there’s some good websites that support people who think they have been with a pathological narcissist. One is on msn. called the web of narcissism.
Good luck. And keep posting.
Anne, I believe we both have spines…we just have to dig down back to where they got buried under all that &*^% from the relationships and straighten them and clean them off. Those guys offloaded their stuff unto us…we were optimistic, not negative like they are.
And I’m not a big fan of saying “Everything happens for a reason”. Instead, I prefer to say, “With work, bad experiences can turn out to be a good thing”.
Hi Seeif -
Thank you for your reply. I am going to look into the books you recommend. I am so relieved to hear you say that people around will “explain it away”. (!!!) So true.. I am hearing my mother say “Anne, he’s been single for so long - that you have to understand that it’s hard for him to learn to live with someone”. This is what she said when I told her about the time he flew into a rage a screamed at the top of his lungs ” I CAN’T TAKE THIS - I HAVE NO SPACE _-GET OUT OF WAY - JUST GET OUT!!!” And then he ran out of the house - got in his car -peeled rubber in the street and left me to freak out alone for two hours before he came back and said “Jesus Anne - you have to push push push - can’t you just let me settle down for a minute…why do you always have to know the reason for everything?”
And - as you said - its sprinkled with “I am so thankful to have you in my life.” comments every couple of months - just to keep me hopping.
So thank you Seeif. I am going to work now and have alot to think about. Mostly gathering some strength - and listening to my gut. I don’t know when I stopped feeling smart and beautiful….but it happened somewhere along my timeline with this bonehead. How long have you been out of your relationship? You are so insightful and kind and I hope you are happy.
Hi Serenity - I like that! It will be my mantra for the hours I am at work today. “With work - bad experiences can turn out to be a good thing.” It’s a different pespective and a new way to look at things. Thank you for your comments. I swear - you folks are lifesavers. I am so lucky I found this site!
The relationship that introduced me to Abuse 101 ended 17 years ago. That was my marriage. Because of that experience I discovered a new shelf of books at the bookstore. And it taught me a lot about listening to MY FEELINGS instead of the abuser’s words.
I wish I could say I learned everything I needed to know from the “recovery” I went through as the result of that marriage . Unfortunately, I had to learn ,again, about manipulation and emotional abuse in the relationship that brought me to GPYP. That relationship lasted 6 months, and ended 6 months ago. I’ve gone NC with him twice: the first time was 3 months long, right after the break up; the second time has been ineffect since December 19th last year. I got a Xmas card from him with the news that he was dating someone new. I contacted him the day after receiving the card, and told him I did not want to communicate with him, and to please not contact me in any way.( I wrote this note after consulting with Susan at GPYP.)
NC has been the single most healing part of getting over this past relationship. That and doing the grief work Susan @ GPYP suggests. Reading her posts and theses on grief and mourning have been invaluable in helping me zero in on WHY I was attracted and attractive to another potentially abusive partner.
Journaling, talking, and posting about loss and neglect early in my life helped me to understand –and hopefully not repeat — this pattern of abusive relationships. Not only in love relationships, but work relationships, too.
As for being happy, I’d say I have more happy days than unhappy days. I feel centered and I’m doing something that makes me feel alive. That something is art.
Whereas I came to this site because I had ended a relationship, I am discovering who I am and who I want to be, with or without a partner.
I’m glad Susan posted this topic under a separate post about abuse. I believe that recovering from abuse, being involved with an abuser is different from recovering from a break up with someone who is not an abuser.
Abuse has its own dynamic, cycles, and manipulations. And until you know what they are, it can be hard to see how traumatic it is. There is a special trauma bond between an abuser and his victim that is so insidious that until I understood what that bond was, I couldn’t get free.
I wish there were more therapists trained in treating abuse survivors — emotional as well as physical. Or at least more workshops on verbal and emotional abuse and the damage it causes. Many verbal abuse survivors don’t know that’s what they are going through. And stay believing there must be something they can say or do to stop the abuse. Of course, it’s like physical abuse, the only thing that changes is the frequency, intensity, or variety.
I believe most of us need some kind of therapy after going through abuse. Like alcoholism, it can take a long time to recovery from it. But it can be done.
Anne, it seems like you’re ahead of the game in that you recognize that your ex’s rage was harmful, so upsetting it took you 2 hours to recover from it. That rage IS abuse.
A lot of the recovery I got did come from reading books like The Verbally Abusive Relationship. It was very healing to be validated by Evans’ descriptions and examples of abuse, both overt and covert. Her number one kind of verbal/emotional was “witholding”. When I read that someone who is supposed to love you is being abusive because they don’t ever tell you they love you, that was sooooo validating. Or that witholding affection or talk to punish you was an intolerable form of abuse, I felt like someone lived in my reality… and that it was healthy and sane to expect my lover/husband to engage me conversation or show affection — on a regular basis.
From what you’ve described, your perceptions of your ex’s behavior are right on. Evans says to listen to YOUR feelings, pay attention to how YOU’RE feeling when the abuser tells you something. DO NOT not listen to his or her words. Listen to your feelings. They will guide you.
And… she does say that having no contact with the abuser is ultimately necessary to heal completely.
Thanks for posting…and keep posting.
Your post helps me to remember what I need to remember.
Take care.
Seeif
Hi Seeif -
I am reading the Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists. Thanks for the suggestion. It’s such a relief to see that the behavior has a name! I now will do what I need to do in order to become more aware, as well as figure out (with my therapist) where I am coming from and why. The only thing I don’t like about the book is that she talks about reconcilliation and therapy with the NPD. I cannot see how hope can enter into such a situation. Otherwise - feeling a bit blue and guilty (??!!) but trying to sit through the anxiety. Again - thanks for the reading!
Anne
Really? Therapy and reconcilliation with an NPD? Good luck with that one. Sounds like a dangerous concept.
Seeif, I hear you about the trauma bonds.. but I have a question.. for anyone really.. my ex, who dumped me for someone else.. talked intriguigingly about the ‘wheel of trauma’ between us and ‘wanted out of the sad cycle we had got ourselves into’.. yet I was abused and recognise it now as such.. His line I guess is that he was doing me a favour to get out of the relationship (only to be in another one 3 weeks later!) but as he did not care about my feelings in the relationship, why would he suddenly be all heroic and pull the ‘you are better off without scum like me in your life’..
for the record has never apologised.. but says he has ‘learnt many lessons’ from our time together.. He says its all different with his new love
I feel doubly abused.. by him in the realtionship his withholding cruel and nasty behaviour and then being dumped and told he knew he was abusing me (hence the wheel of trauma?)
Of course he blames me for everything.. I made him that way and she doesn’t?
Any light shed?
I’m having a hard day today.. sundays it creeps up on me.. He and I will never talk again and that feels so final and awful and yes.. NC.. but
Abby
Abby, I know what you mean about days of the week! On Saturday mornings I always had to get my fix.
Here’s my musings as to the answer about “why would he suddenly be all heroic…?” I would guess two things: that perhaps this is because there are very few people that have all-selfish or all-unselfish behaviors, and this was one true unselfish behavior he could exhibit— then there’s the second, in order to look good, he used the “I am saving you from me” facade.
Either way, few people are totally demons (didn’t a lot of these megalomaniacs love their mothers?) or angels (though thankfully there’s a weighted side that most people come out on). I would say that if he was aware enough of how he was traumatizing you, yet continuing in the relationship for a significant time, he was making very selfish choices. Then near the end, when he wanted to go, he could bring out his understanding of what a jerk he was to gild his departure and leave you thinking that a knight rode away.
The dance he’s doing with the next person may be different than yours. But it doesn’t matter doesn’t matter doesn’t matter. Only you do. I know how fascinating it is to keep going down that “what’s going on” track. Rest assured that it’s probably just as nastily unhealthy and unfortunately for them probably an experience that will “make their worlds smaller” as sussan says. And then forget it, who cares? back to you.
It sounds as if your world is getting bigger, and you’re going to be doing a different dance in the future. That’s my hope for myself too.
Good luck with the tango! Once you get over your melancholy, try the samba! It’s like being on an amusement park ride.
Thanks so much Serenity! I appreciate your response I really do.. He did nothing ‘post break up’ that was heroic or nice. He refused to talk to me speak to me and YET continued to see fit to ring my mother to ask if he could stay with her (in London as he does a course there) AND continue to come the yoga studio I own, despite my having asked him “please dont’ do this, I need to heal”
Yes, the final blow was KNOWING that he knew what a jerk he was… and somehow twisting it to make himself look the noble and good one..
My world is getting bigger.. but on Sunday’s cooking lunch alone for me.. and thinkig hey, I used to love cooking it for him! and wondering wondering
Doesn’t matter doesn’t matter…
I will try Samba!
Ole!
Abbyx
Abby,
Because. Because because because because. It’s what they DO. And no matter how much we plow it up and turn it over and look for answers that make sense, to our sensibilities, there just can’t be one, except that’s the way it is. Trying to figure it out beyond labeling it what it is and going on is the ticket to madness, and that’s the trip we don’t want, or need, to take.
They’re changlings. And charming ones, at that. They can turn it on and turn it off, and turn on you. And blaming is much easier than taking responsibility, FOR REAL, because it would necessitate them going deep, and actually doing some digging of their own, and DOING THE WORK, instead of just doing it again with the next victim. So yes, we’re left with the pain, the memories, the getting on with it all, except that we choose to find a different way to live our lives. Not easy, not easy at all, but better in the long run. I know I sound like I’m “blaming,” too, and I cop to it. I did my time as the Victim, but chose to stop short of Martyrdom. And yes, I still have my Garbage Days of Recycling, but I have the knowledge that it is what it is, and the belief that it will pass.
I would even get apologies for his being a jerk, (or maybe he thought that such a profound admission was equal to an apology), but after a while the repeated syndrome of jerkiness began to trump the swellness. No longer was the jerk part some aberration, but truly part of the package. And if they are “doing the noble thing” to remove themselves to save us, well, more the better for their own press, and you have to wonder, (don’t we always still wonder, till we don’t anymore) if they can possibly believe their own stuff. Don’t forget that while they are accomplished liars, they are so accomplished that they believe their own stuff. Otherwise, how could they keep going on? That’s why they keep moving on, because they need a new, ignorant audience. After a while, the old gang knows of what they are made. Or else they surround themselves with a “support group” that you certainly wouldn’t want to be a part of anyway. Bottomfeeders, you might say.
Yeah, I still sound a little bitter. It hurts. It’s still new enough, and I’m still healing, too. And there are days when I fall backwards in to the question pit and still mouth the words and wonder why why why, and after a while I gather myself up from the time wasting and get on with the rest of my life. And you will, too. There’s LIFE out there, and loving people, and friends who care, and the folks in this group that understand, when so many others can’t. That’s why we’re all here.
A lot of this journey is about Faith, especially in ourselves. As we know what we had to offer them, just remember that we can turn that around and offer it to ourselves, and to the people in our lives who really matter. What a concept. Another platitude: Hang in there. After a while there will come a peace, and a commitment, to ourselves, to keep moving on and giving to ourselves, and being worthy of our own love. Like the commercial said, We are worth it. Perhaps even “they” knew they weren’t, in their own hearts, despite their lies, and it’s easier for them to push away the “cause” of their discomfort, than deal with the consequences. Questions, questions, questions, and here’s the perfect example of how I’d be better served by going and cleaning my house or doing my art than to be chasing the white rabbit down the hole again.
I hope you have a special Sunday. Do something good for yourself. And mark another day off that you’ve survived. After a while you’ll have moved off dead center and find you’ve become a functioning, contributing, loving human being. Which, in the end, is a far better future than all of “them” will ever have. Poor them. And good for us.
Thank you Lexi… and everyone.. I feel it reallyl bad today.. for the first time in a long time..( that bloody Amy Winehouse! )
I made my special lunch just for me and am going to watch a movie and cuddle up with my cat
I am always sidewinded when I meet or talk to someone that has had contact wtih him.. Today I practiced yoga with a lovely girl who saw them also last year.. and told me all about that.. the whole thing just reared up in my face again.. How could he leave me.. who loved him so much for someone else.. and lie about it again and again to my friend it was perfectly obvious he had been seeing someone else for some time.. I can’t even frame that in my mind now.. that last year while he was recovering from serious illness and saying how much he loved me and how I had comitted to him during that time.. that he was essentially and silently making his escape route… with her..
I wish her no ill really.. I just hope she realises.. sooner rather than later
Anyway.. on with the rest of Sunday..
thanks again to you both…. support is so important.. and you are right.. ther eis no one else that can understand better than those who know of which we speak
Sadly, Abbyxx
Anne,
Yes, I was definitely thrown by the second half of The Wizard of Oz: the how to do therapy and reconcile with someone who has Narcissistic Personality Disorder(NPD). I disagree. Virtually everything I’ve read about NPD says the exact opposite. If you think about it, if lack of empathy is one of the core, unchangeable characteristics of NPD, which I understand it is — then, how could someone change through therapy. In my experience, when two people are doing therapy to work out differences or pain between them, the very minimum these people need is the ABILITY to feel or to understand the feelings, needs, perspective of other people. But especially those of the other partner.
When I was in relationship with my ex, who demonstrated a lack of empathy toward me, as well other friends or acquaintances, over and over again, it took a long time for it to sink in: that he just didn’t have it(empathy) and he probably never would. It wasn’t just that he couldn’t “feel what I was feeling” it was that he couldn’t see me as a human being who had feelings. Period. So when he said or did cruel things or was indifferent to my pain, it didn’t register. I was a brick wall that he bounced the ball of his actions against. And walls, of course, do not feel. I was seen as an inanimate object, a reflective surface,to be used to reflect him back to himself. I had to learn that he did not see me an impressionable, flesh and blood human being, who would would feel and sustain the painful imprints of his indifferent and cruel remarks and behavior.
It’s my understanding that expecting someone with traits like these to become empathetic and to feel remorse is like expecting a fish out of water to grow legs and walk on down the road. It’s not going to happen.
And I don’t know about others who were with this type of person, but it took me a long time to grasp this: that I was an inanimate object to this person. And in many ways I simply didn’t exist for him, as anything other than an extension of him. That’s what was SO shocking, SO incomprehensible, about all this!
Anne, in another post I warned about this section(about therapy and reconciliation) in The Wizard of Oz. I DO NOT disagree with this supposition. In fact, based on what she says in the first half of the book, it seemed like she did a complete 180 in the second half.
However, what I found useful was the author’s description of the different behaviors in the first half; different behaviors that suggest NPD.
I also recommended another book, “In Sheep’s Clothing: Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People,” by George K. Simon. The author is consistent throughout the book. Also, he describes what he calls “covert aggression” in the behaviors of people who may or may not have NPD. But he’s very clear that it’s very destructive behavior and that it DOES NOT change. He’s very concerned with how harmful these behaviors are to people who interact with them, whether in love relationships, work relationships, or otherwise. And… it validates for the reader that the person who perpetrates these behaviors CAN and DOES hoodwink not only the victims, but the support system around the victims, including therapists. Many therapists aren’t trained to see that there are people, like people with NPD, who use people and are ruthless. And will not change, cannot change in therapy. There are those people: people who are incapable of change.
In any case, the best thing about In Sheep’s Clothing is that it validates how devastating it is to be in a relationship –of any kind — with these deceptive and manipulative people. He addresses the victims of the perpetrators of these behaviors. He says the same thing that everyone else who deals with survivors of abuse says: he says to GET OUT and STAY OUT. But says that if you must be around these people, at work, or in coparenting, you WILL need strategies to take care of YOURSELF to protect yourself from the toxicity of these covert and crazymaking behaviors. He makes it clear that you are pretty much dancing with the devil.
Anne, if you get a chance, you might read In Sheep’s Clothing. It was more helpful for what to do around a manipulating and NPD person.
I read as much as I could about this. What may help one person may not necessarily be enough to help another.
As I read I would ask , “Does this ring true, FOR ME?”
Take care.
Seeif
Wow. I first just have to say how TRULY grateful I am to have found this site. For several years now, I have been feeling like I must be the only person going through a situation like this, and it’s seriously such a relief to know that other people are going through the same thing.
I had been dating this emotionally abusive guy for almost four years, and there had been multiple times when I tried to leave. As soon as he saw that I wasn’t going to deal with his crap anymore, he’d get a classic case of “abuser’s remorse” and I’d always let him creep back into my life somehow. Looking back on it, I can see how I was addicted to the relationship. I don’t know how or when it happened, but I would get used to the cycle of highs and lows and drama…and when I tried to get away from it all, there was a kind of withdrawal I went through…
The part I get most angry about it that I didn’t see him for who he was earlier on. I feel like I wasted so much time on him; when I saw he was an a**hole, why didn’t I just leave and never look back? He was really good at manipulating the situation, and I can COMPLETELY relate to what everyone else has been saying. The rules were constantly changing; I would try everything just to keep him happy, so he wouldn’t go off the deep end - but nothing was right. He would be adamant about how something should be done one day, then completely switch his position and get mad at me for doing it the way he originally said he wanted it done. He was completely psycho. He would put me down and say I wasn’t good at this or that (cooking food, cleaning up around the house, showing affection!@??) so as a result, I tried harder and harder to SHOW him that I WAS good at all of these things. It was nuts. I found myself, as many of you did, walking on eggshells and biting my tongue to avoid conflict. I lost myself somewhere along the way. I didn’t feel I could truly share my opinion anymore…or really be myself. It was really pathetic…b/c I had always had a strong sense of who I was - but he was somehow able to break that down..by slowly chipping away at it without me even realizing it. I think the hardest part was that he totally swept me off of my feet in the beginning, and it was such a rush…that I couldn’t understand how this sweet, perfect guy was treating me this way -calling me terrible names, criticizing EVERY little thing about me, treating me as inferior. I couldn’t, for the longest time, understand that that was who he really was. He wasn’t going to suddenly realize how hard I had been trying, or how much I cared, or what as a**hole he was being (although in times of remorse, he would admit to being one). I finally got it through myhead that he would never change; that was a side of him that was genuinely there and not about to leave. My sister told me something once ( I think she heard it on Oprah, lol) but it really made a difference. She said, “When someone shows you who they really are, believe it.”And that’s what I had to do. I finally have stopped wondering why why why? Or..what could I have done differently…how could I have helped him change…It doesn’t matter! I am SO MUCH better off without him. I only wish I’d seen this sooner. The key for me was physically removing myself from the situation and avoiding all contact with him. I picked up a few books to help me along the way as well. While I’m still in the recovering phase, I know this time it will stick b/c I’ll never let anyone treat me that way again. It’s not even an option. Each day, I feel stronger -I still get sad (mostly thinking about the wasted time) - but it always passes relatively quickly.
Anyways, I didn’t mean to write such a long post -I got a little carried away :) - but I just wanted to let everyone know that I know exactly what you’re going through, and that it’s entirely possible to move on and get your life back. Good luck to everyone..stay strong out there. :)
My UNEQUIVOCAL advice would be to leave an person with NPD and NEVER EVER look back. To do anything else is stupid and dangerous. Now I have to read this book and do a post on it because it sounds ridiculously WRONG to me.
Beth,
Excellent, excellent post. (You too, Seeif.) Congratulations on your enlightenment and moving on! While it’s the diploma we never wanted from the college we never wanted to attend, it’s still to be honored. You’ve told a magnificent story, one that so many can relate to, and isn’t it a shame? But we learn what we learn when we learn it, and then like Susan did and does, it becomes part of our experience to be able to pass it on. I am continually amazed by so many of the contributions in this community. Such articulate and wise words, and the wisdom of experience. And the fact that we can see so much of ourselves in the lives of others, no matter what stage of the journey we and they are in.
It’s a privilege to share cyberspace with all of you.
I meant to say I do not AGREE with the supposition that with therapy a person with NPD can change or work things out with his or her partner. I believe the opposite. I believe Payson is wrong in what she says in the second half of The Wizard of Oz.
Sorry for the typos.
Seeif
Abby,
One of the things the grief workshop handbook (I recommend it all!) says is that loss is at its basic definition the loss of a behavior…certainly a weekend qualifies as that. So it was *us* that made it special by our feelings and care for those people who we now know were undeserving of those special privileges. We need to reclaim that time and that behavior. I want to look forward to my Saturdays again, and I wish you supreme serenity and comfort on Sundays.
- Serenity
Serenity
thank you. Yes its the loss… the times that were good.. Thinking how unfair it all seems sometimes.. he skipped off happily into a new, better sunset and I have been mourning and grieving… but at least growing..
Its Monday now! onward with the week
I thank you
Abbyx
Good Morning Everyone -
Thank you for your comments Seeif - I am going to absolutely find a copy of In Sheep’s Clothing. I just feel such relief knowing that I am not crazy! And that my ex’s behavior is written about and talked about - especially here - I appreciate all of you so much - thank you for sharing your experiences.
I want to tell you what happened last night and see if anyone has any comments becasue I don’t know if I should do anything about it. A bit of background is that I moved to my current city to live with Mr. NPD. Most of my social life revolved around his social life. Now that we are not together - I have been going out with some new people and making an effort to find my own peeps. Well - last night I was on my way to dinner to meet a new friend and while I was driving there - the phone rang and it was my ex! Is he telepathic? Anyway - the message he left (and I did NOT respond to) was something along the lines of “Hi Hon. I just wanted to let you know that I have an appointment tomorrow morning to see the chief of psychiatry at the hospital…he was nice enough to rearrange his schedule to fit me in at 8:30 in the morning. So - I want you to know that I appreciate your help in getting me on this path - even though it is really difficult. I hope we can talk soon.”
I almost called him this morning - but I logged on here instead.
Is this manipulative?
Whan I listened to the message - all I could think of was WOW - he is so special that he gets to see the head of the department that rearranged his schedule just to accomodate the special special man.
Sorry for the bitter tone - but I am TIRED. And I had such a fun dinner last night that I don’t want to ruin it. Kind of like drinking orange juice after brushing your teeth!
Thanks for the vent - the urge to call has passed.
Anne
NPD=NC
Completely.
I love the orange juice after brushing your teeth analogy…EWWWW!!!!!
Abby,
My ex has done the same, and I’m with you on how unfair it is that we should be thrown into grief for something we took so much care about and considered so valuable and special…Of course, we can imagine how everything is butterflies and flowers for them, but the truth is that we were not the only unhealthy ones in those relationships, and there are not going to be healthy people who choose to be with them now. Who cares? Whatever. They are their own problems now and *they* own them.
I’m with my sister this week and we’re getting to the end of one cycle of working through the Grief Recovery Handbook. Thinking that you sound so much like me, you really might look into doing it for yourself. I’m feeling somewhat better already, although it’s hard. Susan says that often a lot of our grief is not from our latest breakup and loss, but from other losses (and they accumulate like a big snowball), and I have to say that now I really understand it to be true, having gone through part of a workshop cycle. My sister and I cried as we worked through part of it last night, and then I had vivid dreams last night (probably when you were blogging- yikes- early morning again, hmm?). But one understanding I had when I woke up in the middle of the night was that everything was inevitable and unchangeable- the choices I made, the choices he made, who he was, who I was—and going down in flames was the only option. There’s actually some peace in that understanding.
serenity
Anne- can you get a new sim card and change your phone numbers? Changing my phone number was one of the most stress-relieving things I did.
p.s. abby, I hope he’s still not coming to your studio–as proprietor, I believe you can say “sorry, you’re no longer welcome as a customer” can’t you…if he is still coming, I bet susan knows the answer as to whether one can turn a troublesome other away as a customer…
Anne: I’m keeping the eye on the ball — my recovery. What my ex does is “none of my business”. When someone is a covert aggressor, everything is about winning, trumping the other: it’s all manipulation. Their continual manipulation of me and others is predictable. It’s the one thing I’ve learned I can count on: they will continue to manipulate me to get what they want. Even if it’s to reel me back in for a second… to satisfy some whim they’re having. Like craving a candybar or a bag of potato chips, a whim that is just one whim among many. And I’ve learned it has nothing to do with me, or wanting me, or caring about me.
Harsh as this sounds, this what I’ve come to understand about Ns.
Glad you had FUN last night. Isn’t that wonderful? You had fun.
You go girl.
Seeif
I just wanted to say that you are all such an inspiration to me. Sometimes, reading the posts, I feel as if we all dated the same man. I thought he was unique and special and that somehow HE was genuine, and yet all of this sounds so familiar. This has helped me so very much today, and I am hopeful that this week will be a better one - as I will make it a better one. Thank you for sharing all your experiences! It truly helps so very much.
I hope that everyone has a wonderful day and week! I will because of you!
Anne,
Don’t drink the juice! :)
I think you are making the absolute right decision by not contacting him in any way. I encountered similar situations every time I tried to leave my ex; he would call to “check in,” or leave a note for me somewhere, or try to initiate contact in some way. It was his way of inching back into my life bit by bit. Once I responded to a text message, or voicemail, or any kind of contact, he saw this as an opportunity to push in even more. The truth is, there’s no reason to be talking to him for a long time…and it sounds like you’re out there meeting people and making a new start for yourself, which is awesome.
Changing your number is a great way to get your mind off whether it’s him when the phone rings. I used to wonder that every time the phone would ring…and then when I would listen to his voicemail, my heart was racing out of my chest. So much unnecessary drama.
So…stay strong- you’re doing the right thing! Remember that. :)
Thank you all for your support. I really really appreciate it - because here I am at sunset feeling a little guilty for going out - can you believe it!!?? I did not call today and Beth - you are SO right about the heart jumping feeling of stress. I think that if the situation I was in wasn’t somewhat abusive I wouldn’t feel like this - would I? And I say “somewhat” because it was so subtle that before I knew it - 3 years had passed and I was not the same person I was when we started. But Susan is correct i n saying abusive is abuse is abuse is abuse! He has so many of the NPD traits (sense of entitlement, rage bursts when questioned etc.) but put on such a show. It makes me so mad that I am sitting here feeling guilty for going out and questioning the reality of the situation. Seriously - why can’t I “get it”? I won’t drink the juice!
And Seeif - you rock! Thanks for the frank words. What an accomplishment to be able to see so clearly. That’s my goal. To “get it”.
Thank you all for your support. I really really appreciate it - because here I am at sunset feeling a little guilty for going out - can you believe it!!?? I did not call today and Beth - you are SO right about the heart jumping feeling of stress. I think that if the situation I was in wasn’t somewhat abusive I wouldn’t feel like this - would I? And I say “somewhat” because it was so subtle that before I knew it - 3 years had passed and I was not the same person I was when we started. But Susan is correct i n saying abusive is abuse is abuse is abuse! He has so many of the NPD traits (sense of entitlement, rage bursts when questioned etc.) but put on such a show. It makes me so mad that I am sitting here feeling guilty for going out and questioning the reality of the situation. Seriously - why can’t I “get it”? I won’t drink the juice!
And Seeif - you rock! Thanks for the frank words. What an accomplishment to be able to see so clearly. That’s my goal. To “get it”.
Anne,
You’re getting it…you are.
Hey everyone
I just discovered this site and find it so beneficial!!
I have also read The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists - at first I thought the author stated the same thing that all of you are thinking that she meant. I have re-read it a few times and what I think that she meant was this: that if someone has just narcissitic traits and not the full blown disorder of NPD, there may be a chance of reconciliation with therapy - depending on where the person is on the narcissistic continuum and motivation for change. I agree that she does not make this very clear if this is indeed what she meant.
Welcome Cheryl!!! I ordered the book today. I’m going to read i t carefully. Glad you are here!
Another good book is, Why is it Always About You - the Seven Deadly Sins of Narcissism. This book is, I believe, much more realistic about there not being hope for change.
Susangpyp
Thanks so much for the welcome!