In “More After The Breakup” I posted about trying to be friends with the ex and I counseled against it. People who read “After the Breakup” don’t always read more after the breakup and inevitably email me about remaining friends. So, at the risk of repeating myself, I’m going to give the entry it’s own post so that people can find it easier and I added a few sentences to the end.
Trying To Be Friends With The Ex
A big, looming question after the breakup seems to be: “Can we still be friends?”
Unfortunately the answer is probably no.
There are several reasons for this, but first and foremost is that even after the most amicable breakup, the people involved need some time so they can work through their feelings and sift through the ruins of the relationship. Even if it was not an emotional high-wire act, as many breakups are, there needs to be time apart to break the bond of “the couple.”
Each person needs to separate and go back to being an individual without being a part of the couple. In other words, to lose the “couple” identity. Each person needs to do their work and become an individual once again. Each needs to deal with the breakup in their own way and DEFINITELY separate and apart and away from the scrutiny of the person they just broke up with.
Most people cannot remain friends after a breakup but if it ever is to be, it will be later…much later. The atmosphere immediately following a breakup is too emotionally charged for it to happen right away, if at all.
Sometimes both people are “okay” with the breakup and try to be friends too early. I know one couple who had dinner every now and again after they broke up. They told everyone they were “friends” and liked to check in now and again. One night, about 2 months after the breakup, the dinner turned into a teary shouting match. Neither was prepared for it but both were moving onto other people and the revelation at dinner brought up all kinds of emotions that neither knew were there. If you’re going to be friends, EVER, the first six months is probably not the time no matter how amicable it seems on the surface.
The person who pushes to “be friends” is usually the one who has unfinished business but doesn’t want to own that or doesn’t want the responsibility of the relationship but is unwilling to completely relinquish the ex. That is a selfish motive and not fair to the other person. Do your work and let the other person do their work and heal. It is not fair to string someone along as a “friend” because you can’t deal with the pain of having them out of your life completely. As with any post-breakup dealings with the ex:Examine your motives.
A coworker recently said to me, “I want to be friends after the breakup and she doesn’t. She’s a terrific person and I don’t want her out of my life.”
If you’re the one who is asking to be friends, AGAIN: examine your motives. Are you trying to stave off the grief? Are you playing a game? Are you unwilling to really break all ties but don’t want the relationship either? Benefits without responsibility? That’s dysfunctional and wrong (as are any “friends with benefits” scenarios that sometimes follow a “breaking up as a couple.”)
Sometimes people can’t do “endings“. If you can’t do endings (if you’re still friends with absolutely everyone you’ve gone out with), you might need to think about that. Others just don’t end things and don’t know how. If your ex is one of those, don’t let him or her lead the way. Take charge of ending it and not remaining friends.
If you are the one who isn’t able to end things, don’t inject your inability to come to terms with the end of the relationship on the other person. It’s simply not fair. Yes, she’s hurt. And you’re making things worse. If she was so terrific, you’d still be with her. You cannot have it both ways. Leave it alone.
If you are the person who did not break up and is doing the contact, this is not a good plan. You need to move on. The other person needs to move on. If you are emailing or calling or texting and they are not answering, stop doing it. Sit on your hands if you need to. It’s humiliating. Leave it alone and get on with your life. It’s hard but it has to be done.
If you are managing to engage him/her, how does it feel afterwards? Do you feel good or did you just postpone the inevitable once again? Or did they let you know ITS REALLY OVER and you’re not hearing it or still looking for clues in what they are saying or doing that it is really not. Stop torturing yourself.
BURY IT.
If you’re the person who is being asked, say no. Short and sweet. Pure and simple. NO.
Don’t try to explain or rationalize…just say no or maybe no, not now. The problem with saying “not now” is that it will usually be followed by “When?” and you just don’t know. No is a one-word sentence. Say it and then go. No further explanation necessary.
If the other person is saying that they just can’t NOT have you in their life but didn’t treat you right when you were together, one word: TOUGH. They should have thought of this before. Relationships take two people. So do friendships. The relationship didn’t work. If your ex is not listening to your feelings now and still not doing right by you, the friendship is not going to work either. Find new friends who treat you right. INSIST on being treated well in ALL relationships. Your ex did not treat you well. Buh. Bye. Was this post helpful? Want to share it with others? Digg it! Click here and hit digg it after the jump: DIGG IT!
On Being Friends With The Ex
June 22, 2007 by Susan J. Elliott
It doesn’t say never. It says if it is to be it will be later.
Most people can’t be. Your situation is not the regular course of events. Most people can’t esp when one person is hurt and the other is pushing to be friends.
Good for you but your situation is not the norm.
I agree with Sam. I don’t know many of my exes that I could be friends with. Further in the future (and if we parted on mutual terms) I could be friends with an ex, but probably only if I was in a relationship with someone else and happy, and they were also with someone else and happy. This is why this is rare for me.
My ex walked out in July, after 19 years, but says he wants to spend 6 months a year in a self-contained part of our house. He says he does want to spend time with me but not be involved – and he realises he wants to live alone. I’m confused! I would still like to be with him. This has been the first rocky time we’ve ever had and he’s always been incredibly kind, considerate and loving. He turned 40 and his mother died and he said it has all overwhelmed him and made him reappraise everything. I can’t see quite how he expects this living ‘next-door’ to work, but my guess is he must already feel very neutral about our relationship, which was very good for 17 years. I need some objective, outside advice (not sarcastic, please; couldn’t take it just now.)
His upheavel is understandable in the face of the changes in his life but you need to think about you. You can’t be a martyr or be blown about by the winds of change sweeping through his life. He sounds like he wants to construct a life that works for HIM. What about you? Where are you in all this? How do you move on if he’s going to be there part time? His choice of arrangement not only sounds screwy but sounds extremely self-centered. It sounds like he wants what he wants when he wants it…and he wants his cake and eat it too. What about you????
I would evaluate your life and what you want for you. Not what is good for him but what is good for you. As to his “plan” you have 3 choices: accept it (go along with what he wants), change it (show him that it’s not a good plan) or leave (you go your way and he goes his). Those are your 3 choices. You have to figure out, FOR YOU, which one works for you. Good luck!
My ex of 1 year broke up with me about 3 months ago. During the year we were together, we were inseparable. We planned engagement, marriage, kids, etc. He even made financial decisions in preparation for all of those things to happen within a year or two. As soon as we started moving seriously towards the engagement direction, he became withdrawn, more obsessed with work, didn’t want to go out, and would pick stupid fights over nothing. Ultimately, this resulted in him deciding he was “afraid” of what marriage might be, so he dumped me. He claimed he wanted to stay friends, and against my better judgment I agreed. His idea of “friends” was nothing but hooking up at night whenever HE wanted it and when it was convenient for HIM. I finally told him no more, but he said he STILL wanted to try a friendship. I told him no and haven’t been in contact with him since. Although I feel a little better, I still miss him like crazy and wish there were some way things could have worked out for us. My question is this: I want to date new people, but am having a hard time because each time I go out, I think about the ex and have a hard time focusing on my date. How do you go about truly putting the ex out of your mind???
I finally ended a 7 year relationship that dragged on 2 more miserable years so we could “remain friends” It just kept us tied together in a semi-relationship that didn’t allow either of us to move on and get a life.
Ironically, his insistence on “getting as close as he could” to his ex wife (for the sake of his GROWN children) the first five years we were together really ultimately ended his relationship with me. His attention to his ex and his insistence on being an emotional support system to her directly robbed any future we could have built together.
It is pretty sad that after the constant intrusion of his ex wife on our relationship, I left, and then she found someone else, dumped my former boyfriend and remarried. Now, she has nothing to do with ex-husband even though he trashed his relationship to be her loving close friend. He should have invested that energy in me instead–he wouldn’t be alone right now if he had.
part of the reason i stopped all contact with my ex after he left is because whoever he chooses to be with next doesn’t need the hassle of him being close to his ex.
he made the decision. i don’t think he realised that we would now be completely out of each others lives. i know that is the way it has to be for now. sure it’s easy for him, he was with someone soon after our 10 year relationship ended. doubt i have the truth on when that started. how do i trust him now?
the point I am trying to get to is that I realise the impact of being in contact and supportive of me could have on someone else and I didn’t want that to happen. he broke our relationship when he left, there is no fixing that.
So, if ex’s insists on being with the other person as friends….does that mean that they still love each other or have an emotional connection? Or, is it a sign of how disfunctional that person is by not being able to let go? needy? insensitive? selfish? or is it truly love that keeps them there?
When I look around at all the couples i know who have broken up, I only know of 1 couple that stayed friends…they are actually married now. But that’s 1 couple in 100.
I can be friendly, but not friends. I think that is the way it is supposed to go.
Devastated because I didn’t want it to end. But it’s done.
My situation wasn’t a break-up but a relationship that failed to get off the ground after an intense start. He said “let’s concentrate on friendship first” which I wanted to believe left room for more. And the longer we were friends, the stronger my hope. But it just delayed the inevitable and every communication now just keeps a wound open that just doesn’t need to be. So I will sit on my hands from now on and try to work through the pain by writing messages like these.
If the other person is saying that they just can’t NOT have you in their life but didn’t treat you right when you were together, one word: TOUGH. They should have thought of this before. Relationships take two people. So do friendships. The relationship didn’t work. If your ex is not listening to your feelings now and still not doing right by you, the friendship is not going to work either. Find new friends who treat you right. INSIST on being treated well in ALL relationships. Your ex did not treat you well. Buh. Bye.
But isn’t the person saying NOW that they don’t want to treat the person the way they did in the past?
I don’t think it matters. I don’t want to be friends with someone who treated me badly in the past.
What if it was caused by low self esteem? I see I have that and have for a lot of our relationship. Not being strong enough to stand up for myself, to talk when there were issues, to avoid things. And now he is gone. I know I need to work on me, and I am, and am making big changes. It takes time. I still love him though. But he is with someone else.
Well, I did it again. After three months of no contact, I called her last night. She is still dating the guy whom she started dating 6 weeks after our five year relationship.
She sounded so happy and told me that the two of them get along great.
Then she said she still msses me.
HELP ME
Tim, does it hurt when you do that? Don’t do that.
It’s hard to cut off contact with the last person that you loved. My ex did a lot of damage to my self esteem when he, out of nowhere, left me for another girl. I sometimes feel that I am unlovable or something as a result. My boyfriend before him was unfaithful so I had some underlying trust issues going into this relationship. He seemed so trustworthy that I finally allowed myself to fall in love for the second time in my life. It’s hard to give up hope on the ex returning when it feels like that is the one thing that would take away the pain. I am over 30 now and am starting to worry that I will not have another chance at love. That makes it even more hard to cut all contact when you hope the one you still care for will somehow change their mind and come back. What if I changed my number and he couldn’t ever contact me if he did want to return. I know that this isn’t healthy thinking but it’s how I’ve been feeling lately none-the-less. Part of my feelings of “guilt” for not being his friend is probably fear that I would never know if he wanted to come back. I’m just really struggling with a lot of painful feelings.
That is EXACTLY me, but I’m a guy. I swear you absolutely NAILED IT.
I was with her for 2+ years. We were madly in love.I still love her but I delete all of her contacts, it’s the only way. But she ALWAYS calls after months, and acts nice and brings all my feelings back, only to crush me again.
WHY??Why not leave me alone?
She was SO SO loving, how did she turn to ice????
I am seeing a girl who is gorgeous and an absolute sweetheart, but I don’t love her.
I love this crazy girl.
Will things change?
I hate this Love thing!!!
Whoever said “It’s better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all”, in my opinion, couldn’t be more wrong.
This one girl, who is not even thinking about me right now, is dominating my thoughts.
And the one who is truely in love with me (if there is a such thing) I really like, but no comparison.
Am I Nucking Futs?????
I am a rational human being, I swear, but, rationally speaking, i don’t want to play this game called life anymore.
I want to come out of the game coach. The emotions are too strong. And I am supposed to be a 3 year Zen Buddhist, who can control this, but I can’t. I am overwhelmed. I am ashamed for bring overwhelmed.
And, worst, i could never leave my poor Mother in that wake. I am trapped in misery. Help Me! I am a crying man.
Hang in there Sean.
Hope things are getting easier for you.
Lisa, I think the question is threefold:
1. Why do you still care for someone who treated you this way? No one else can damage your self esteem unless you let them. When we are children, we are victims. When we are adults, we are volunteers. Put your hand down. Stop signing up for this mistreatment. You deserve better than these clowns. WORK ON THAT SELF ESTEEM!!!
2. Isn’t being alone better than being mistreated? If you don’t think so, abandonment issues are playing a part. Work on you and figure it out. Why do you think you won’t have “another chance at love”? What you’ve had is not love. Love does not cheat or lie or damage us. You have not had love yet. Stop waiting for these losers to show back up. Work on YOU and you will find good and healthy love.
3. You are giving other people too much power. Take back the power. Treat yourself right and others will too. You can do this!!!
Susan,
Thanks for your reply. I probably do have issues of some kind. I’ll tell you a bit about my background. I grew up with a depressed, mentally ill father who was a disabled veteran (due to his mental issues). It was a volatile, unstable living situation. He was an alcoholic, which would cause fights with my religious, though meek mother. My parents never seemed happy or in love, just “used to” each other and frequently annoyed by each other. My father wasn’t affectionate to us children (there were 4 of us) unless he was drunk. I couldn’t stand it when he was. I remember him telling me that he loved me one time in my life, though we were over sheltered, not allowed to get involved in sports or activities after school. I remember being 11 and hearing my dad tell my mom “if it wasn’t for these kids, I’d kill myself.” When I was a teen, I think his only concern was hoping my sister or I didn’t get pregnant and embarrass the family. He was always sick with diabetes and in and out of hospitals for as long as I can remember. I remember when I was around 16, my dad getting mad at my mother and moving out to a house across town. He was showing increased signs of mental illness, maybe bipolar, because he would go on big spending sprees and even started a small business. I remember being at the house he rented, where he also conducted this business, and he was angry with a woman he had hired to work as his receptionist. He had a gun and told us children that we better stay back because he was going to shoot the woman. I was terrified. Luckily the woman never showed up.
I remember being asleep at my mother’s house and I would hear his car drive up and he would use his key and come in our house. My sister and I were terrified that he was going to go nuts and shoot us all or something. One of these times when he came to our house at night, he gathered us all in the living room and announced that he wanted a divorce from our mother. He then left and moved in with his ex wife to another state. I was glad that he was gone. I was so angry at my mother when she took him back a few months later and he moved back in with us. I just hated him. I was around 17 at this time. I remember being taken to counseling for a brief bout of anorexia during this time. When his mental illness would flare up, my dad would spend his days in his underwear, not even getting dressed or washing his hair. I was embarrassed for anyone to come over to our house. I had begun dating a guy and wouldn’t let him come over because my dad was acting like a crazy man all the time.
I moved out at the age of 19 when I started college and also one of my brothers tried to make sexual advances on me. He had touched my sister and I inappropriately at times when we were children, but this time he had asked me to get undressed so he could look at my body. I was horrified and I left. I don’t speak to that brother to this day.
Anyway my father suffered two strokes and a heart attack and died when I was 20. Not a year later my mother was diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer and spent a year and a half of being horribly ill. She died when I was 22. I hadn’t even finished my college education yet so I had to work full time and go to college full time. I always felt worried about my security. I didn’t have much family left just my sister and one brother. My grandparents had all died by the time I was 15 as well. I was in the relationship with the first guy I fell in love with who was unfaithful to me frequently. He was an alcoholic who partied most of the time and was into drugs too. The relationship was off and on for about 8 years. He wound up having three children with other women during our “off” periods and got engaged to one of them while still calling me telling me he loved me. I had to tell him to leave me alone once and for all and he finally did. I suppose he married the other girl. I haven’t talked to him in about 3 years now.
The second guy I fell in love with seemed to be the total opposite of the first guy. He told me he had never cheated on a girl. He doted on me. I thought I had finally found the man of my dream. It was a long distance relationship so I guess I shouldn’t have expected it to work out but I did. I fell in love for the second time in my life and he wound up hurting me too, which I am having a very hard time getting over. It’s what brought me to these boards. Thanks for listening. I’m really giving thought to what you wrote.
Lisa Anne
And to briefly answer your questions Susan:
1. I guess I care about him still because I can’t get angry at him or feel like he mistreated me because I feel, and as terrible as it is to think, that he left me because I wasn’t good enough somehow or that I am inadequate in some way. I went into a depression and hated myself for not being good enough for him somehow. I felt that if I had done things right, he wouldn’t have done what he did. People wouldn’t know that I feel this way to look at me. I am educated. I have a good job. I am independent. I have my own place, my own car, etc. I am nice and have a good sense of humor. I am always told that I am attractive and intelligent. I try to take care of myself (that suffers when I feel depressed though). People can’t understand why I am not over him and dating anyone else yet. I wish I could just say “screw him” and hate him and go on, but I can’t for some reason. He had everything I wanted in a guy and I feel like I lost the best guy and no one can compare to him. Maybe I feel like he didn’t treat me badly…maybe I feel like deep down I wasn’t good enough for a guy like that and “she” was. When he left me for the other girl, he told me “No one can help how they feel about a person. She blew me away.” That really hurt. It’s like he was telling me she was so amazing, I should just understand why he couldn’t be blamed for wanting to be with her and I should just step aside and be his friend.
2. I’m worried that I won’t find anyone else because of my age. I’m over 30 now and most everyone else I know who is my age is already married with children. I’m from southern USA where it seems a requirement to be married and all anyone ever cares about. I feel like I must be unlovable because both of the men I loved wouldn’t marry me. While in those relationships, I always tried to maintain my independence. I don’t smother guys. I treat them well. I’m loyal. There were not problems with intimacy. I have my own job and apartment. I didn’t expect them to take care of me. I just wanted to share my life with them…loyalty and commitment from both parties. I never tried to demand a marriage though I wanted to marry both of them during the relationships. I wanted the guy to propose to me when he felt it, you know? Apparently neither did and I feel like something must be wrong with me…something that drives men away that even I am not aware of. Along with my age (worried that there won’t be many available men over 30), I am afraid that I must have some inadequacies that will drive whoever else I fall in love with into another woman’s arms because that’s been the outcome for me both times I have fallen in love.
3. You are right. I guess I have been giving other people way too much power. Especially when I fall in love. My best friend told me “when you fall in love, you make these guys into gods in your own mind.” I wish I knew how to stop.
Sorry these posts were so long. I’m just venting how I’ve been feeling for the past year. Thanks again Susan. Your blog is great.
Lisa: “everything you want in a guy” MUST include cherishing you and valuing you. You sound like you are a GREAT CATCH and he could not see that.
It is NOT you. Please work on your self-esteem with affirmations and positive self-talk.
Second, don’t worry that no one else is there right now. You NEED to take care of you and develop a good and healthy foundation and then good and healthy partners will come along. I met my husband in my late 30s and, you know what? I was NOT ready for him before then. I had WORK to do. But being married to him has been a FANTASTIC experience because I was the RIGHT person when the right person came along.
In order to FIND the right person, you have to BE the right person. Change that negative thinking, girl! You can do this!!!
OK, AFTER BEING BROKEN UP FOR 5 MONTHS, my ex and i havent really talked much, with exception to me contacting him here and there. On instant messenger, etc, but generally speaking he has been the one to end the conversations, etc and each and every time i’ve felt horrible afterwards feeling like i blew it. Last night, im sitting around talking to a friend about fate, and how i believe in it but i didnt think that id ever hear from him again on his approach….NO JOKE 5 monutes later i receive a text message from him saying he had seen me out the night before…thats all it said. I decided not to reply but its killiing me cuz i do miss him, but is this the right decision? Im afraid that if i were to reply it just leaves it open for him to blow me off again.
susan please email me and leet me know your thoughts
Susan,
Thanks again for your great advice. You have worked hard to overcome your not so wonderful background and you have finally found happiness. I admire that and I hope to do the same.
From reading your posts, I realize that I have been letting my past affect me in ways that I hadn’t really thought about before (a lot of losses, particularly the deaths of my parents). Maybe that explains why I have fallen in love with men who didn’t love me and ultimately didn’t treat me well. Maybe I haven’t been healthy or the “right” person to attract the right man for me (which would be someone who would love me and commit.)
I couldn’t understand why things always went wrong. I thought that despite how hard I tried to make it work with both of them, the fact that it didn’t meant that I was doing something wrong or that that there was something wrong with me. I thought that I was inferior to girls whose boyfriends actually did love them and wanted to marry them. But the scary part is that while I was with these guys, I really did think they loved me. It hurts that they didn’t. Maybe they were just taking advantage of the fact that I loved them. I don’t know. But a part of me still thinks that if these guys love someone else, it means that I did things wrong and was unlovable. Arghhh!
But if f I think about it, I didn’t grow up seeing a very loving relationship between my parents or get a lot of affection from them, so maybe I didn’t know the difference. That worries me about dating in the future. I’m afraid I will think he loves me when he doesn’t and be blind sighted by him suddenly leaving me for another girl or being cheated on again. Maybe I do have abandonment issues which made getting over these guys so grueling for me. I probably would do well to start seeing a therapist to help me sort through all of this. I truly hope that if I continue to work on myself and become a healthy person, I will attract the right guy (like you said).
I just wanted to take a second to thank you again for your advice and encouragement. I really needed it.
Lisa Anne
hi,
i’ve been reading this website and posts to help me with my recent breakup. it’s funny so much of what i read reminds me of “my story” but everyone’s story and circumstance is unique. but the short version is i went out with a guy for a year and a half and just as we started to get more serious–ie live together and get a ring, he packed up his stuff and sent me an email while i was work. looking back there were red flags, but i chose to ignore them because i thought he would eventually stop being emotionally attached or “good friends” with his ex-wife, stop worrying about his mother, but he never did or maybe never could. naturally, he wanted to be friends with me and i tried for the first three months, but then i cut it off saying it was too hard and confusing.
now, whenever i think of calling my ex i remember what my friend advised me to do. stop. ask yourself “what do you want to get out of this phone call?” and if i can’t answer that in a positive way, then i have to emotionally put the receiver down. it’s certainly not easy, but over all is helpful if only because it reminds you–that the phone call is really about you–which we sometimes forget after a break-up. I hope that helps some folks. btw–i’m curious to ana’s question…did you ever get an answer? clearly, i dealt with some similar issues. thanks for this chat room–it does help.
s0000 this is my love dilema… im in my ealry 20’s and have recently ended a relationship with a guy who i was with for 4 yrs off and on. we now have been broken up for 2 months. usually we brake up for 2 weeks and were back on but not this time. and well in the the last two months he has pretty much made it impossible for me to forget him. he broke up with me claiming he needed time to be alone and thought it was our time to end things, because things never ever really worked out between us. i of course was completley devasted. well to make a long story kinda short, he first started contacting me 3 weeks after the break up by texting me with stupid excuses to see me. i finally gave in and decided to see him, which lead to a night that shouldnt of happend. he then told me to just relax and he’d call me and we would sort everything out. however about 4 days later i see him hanging out with another girl who was freinds with one of our mutual friends. i felt even more terrible. soon after he started to call me for about a week straight, but i would not answer, so finally when i felt ready to comfront him about it, he pretty much said that he just started to date this girl and it was nothing serious. and he was sorry i had to see that, but it just happened. so he pretty much bull**** me into feeling sorry for him because he started telling me how he wasnt very happy and was going down hill . so once again i end up seeing him out of stupidity i guess you can say. i just missed him and felt that if i saw him he would realize. but after the night was over i just felt worse and relaized that me and him cant really be friends. it’s just way too hard, im not over it, and i realzied that he doesnt deserve to have his cake and eat it too. since then he has tried to call me many times. leaving messages like i dont know why your ignoring me and i just wanna talk. and text messages as well saying im going to your house, be there! and the last time he contacted me was too let me know that he was upset because i didnt call him for his b-day and acutally called me and pretended he didnt know who he was calling and then texted me saying in other words that I was mean for not at least saying happy b-day too him. i felt bad and simply just responded by saying ” way to keep it civil” and he simply said i was a fu**** up person. so Now i dont if i should call him or not. i miss him and i still like him, but i dont understand whats going on, and why he keeps calling me if hes dating other girls…someone help what should i do?
This is all so helpful. I’m 50, have been divorsed for 12 years. About 5 years after my divorse, I got involved in my first real relationship. We were together 2 1/2 years. There was never a verbal expression of love or acknowledgement that the relationship was exclusive, but it was just “understood”. (footnote: He was married twice previously – the first wife is the mother of his children and he left her after having a long affair with the second wife. They were married for only a year) Things got a little rocky the last few months and communication broke down. He then broke up with me and was immediately involved with his current girlfriend. They have been together this entire time. He bought a business and she now manages it. At first they didn’t spend much time together and I just assumed it was held together by the business. From the day he broke up with me we have remained in contact and friends. Yes, this was very hurtful as I assumed it was a short term thing and we would be back together. Our contact is at least weekly and at times daily. We became intimate again 1 1/2 years after the breakup. He has always implied and said that their relationship was “not a long term thing”, but it has continued for 5 years. I know there were some short term breakups and others tell me it is quite stormy as she is very moody. A year ago I told him I had to stop the contact so I could heal and move on. He respected my request for about a month and then began contacting me again. When I don’t answer the phone he shows up at my house. We resumed seeing each other for the next 4 months. I knew he was seing his girlfriend more frequently, but he was spending a lot of time with me. I finally totally lost it in June 07 and totally blew up on him and demanded that he leave me alone. He respected that for about 2 months and then slowly started edging back in. I have been strong and we have only been intimate once during this time. My question is why does he still persist? Does he still have feelings for me? Is it a control issue? I admit I still love him and am weak in response to the relationship. I am a very strong person in all other areas of my life I own a very successful business, I’m very independent…what gives?
I was away on business for 2 weeks in early december. HE called me 7 times during that period. I didn’t take the calls. When I got home he contacted me and we had a great conversation then I didn’t hear from him. Is it a control thing? Any help is appreciated. I feel like I’m wasting my life, but can’t seem to move on from him.
Liz, if he senses your ambiguity, he’s not going to leave you alone. Stop talking to him. He doesn’t respect you. He lies to you. He knows you will cave eventually. You have got to stop talking to him.
You can’t “seem” to move on from him because you are choosing not to. You are not a victim, you are a volunteer. Put a period and end it. Tell him that you will no longer answer the calls and if he continues to contact you you will file a complaint for harassment.
You need to set the boundary and STICK WITH IT, not have “great conversations.” He is not respecting your boundary because it’s drawn in sand. You have to draw it in concrete once and for all. that is how you move on.
YOU CAN DO THIS!!!
But why does he continue to contact me even though he is with someone else?
It doesn’t matter why. It matters that it stop and you need to stop it. Stay out of his head and concentrate on what this contact is doing to you.
I kind of disagree with you here, Susan. I think that some couples can be friends after a breakup. A couple of my friends have been able to end relationships and become friends. It is because they realized that they were not meant to be together romantically, but they still could be friends with each other.
I agree that not every couple can be “friends” after a relationship breaks up because sometimes the issues that led to the breakup–infidelity, lying, abuse, betrayal, et.c–preclude it. To me love is about wanting the best for the ex or the other person. It’s about wanting that person to be happy.
I answered this on another post. On the Post Breakup No-No List I wrote:
’I’ve said some people can do it, but not all and not most.
I have maintained business relationships with ex’s where we owned property together. That is not the same as being friends. I have split custody of a dog until it didn’t work. I have separated most of the financial. Separating couples should separate financially. I have agreed to hold onto real estate with ex’s because the time was not right to sell but it was a BUSINESS ARRANGEMENT, not a friendship. Ex’s who have kids need to treat it as a business arrangement, meaning keep the emotional out of it.
I’m never sure that I buy people’s kind-hearted arguments. It keeps her dependent. Let her figure it out on her own. It’s sometimes cruel to be kind.
Some people CAN have relationships with their ex’s. Others can’t. I’ve seen so much damage from people trying to so my bottom line is “99 percent of the time people can’t and another .5 percent of the time they shouldn’t. .5 percent do perfectly fine.” It’s a small amount but some people do fit into that.
This is not for people who can go on and do it, this is for people who are struggling with it. Most people cannot be friends.
I agree some people can do it. I’ve done it with someone I was romantically involved with for years…we had a very amicable breakup. He wanted something I didn’t (a child) and we went our separate ways. We were HUGE parts of each other’s lives and we check in periodically. But for most people, it’s not that easy.
And when someone has hurt you, you don’t necessarily get to “wanting the best for them” right away EVEN if you love them. You have to go through hurt and anger and be absorbed in your own “stuff” first before you can even think of wishing they can be happy. Sometimes you’re too angry to wish someone else to be happy.
If someone has hurt someone badly, they don’t necessarily want to see that person who hurt them be happy. Many people (if not most) are bitter after being mistreated and can’t bring them to wish for someone else’s happiness and THAT’S OKAY. It HAS to be okay.
When my ex cheated on me and broke up my marriage when I had no job and 3 little kids, I could have sworn I loved him, but did I want him to just go on and be happy? NO. I wasn’t happy. I was miserable, the kids were miserable. Did it all work out eventually? Yes, I went on to a fantastic life and the breakup was the best thing that ever happened to me.
Can I wish today that he is happy? No, not really. This is someone who hurt my children. Deeply. And I really can’t sit around and wish wonderful things for him. I no longer wish he get hit by a bus, but I won’t be wishing good things his way any time soon.
I don’t think that right after a breakup a person is failing in their “love capacity” if they are not wishing wonderful things for their ex and if they are not capable of being friends or if being friends is hurting them MORE, then they shouldn’t be.
If I was giving a talk on alcoholism and a social drinker came up to me and said, “I can stop at 2.” my sentiments would be, “That is FABULOUS.” but not everyone can and this talk is for those who can’t.
Similarly, these posts about being friends with the ex is for those who get hurt by it but feel guilty that they can’t do it. This is to say YOU DON’T HAVE TO. It may be possible for some (and again I think it’s a minority) but that doesn’t mean you have to do it.
These posts are for people who are being hurt by the ex’s exhortations to be friends. Take what you like and leave the rest.
This is interesting, its not just me. My ex walked out with no warning last year. He has come back twice and left again. He hasn’t moved his stuff out of the house despite being asked repeatedly and hasn’t changed his postal address. I know he has cheated on me, yet he still trys to flirt with me. If we didn’t have a child I would have nothing to do with him, everytime I manage to get my head sorted and start making some headway with my life he makes it difficult for me. He has now started openingly seeing someone else (I’m pretty certain he has being seeing her for longer than his says) and is barely seeing his child, constantly late or hungover for visitations and he has now spread loads of lies about me to try and make himself appear better to everyone else. I’ve even had harrassment, from stupid stuff to death threats from his friends at my house to the extent that I now have a police incident log! It is just insane, I don’t understand why he just won’t let me move on with life or be happy, I didn’t cheat, I didn’t lie, but I have been made out to be a very bad person and that is it all my fault and that I deserve everything I get. Oh yeah he seems to think we can be friends.
Bella, maybe the following will give you an idea of what is going on on the other side of the relationship.
My best friend has a baby with a man whom she has been seeing for four years. Two years into their relationship she started seeing another man just for sex. She was explaining this as a defensive strategy, in case her steady boyfriend cheats on her or leaves her one day. She claimed she did not trust men, so she did not want to focus on one person solely, in order to avoid disappointment.
The sexual relationship with her new acquaintance did not last long because he was also ina relationship, so she tried to revive her fading feelings for the steady boyfriend and they even made attempts to have a child, which did not work out at fist. Several months later her secret love came around again and the story repeated itself again. The only difference this time was that she had already conceived. She found out when her secret love was highly intense. The love was not willing or ready to take care of a child, so they decided to break it off and that each should stay with their steady partner. She kept the child, yet a few months into the pregnancy she was completely devastated by the break up, so she told the father of the child everything. The father, of course, was spiritually and almost physically destroyed, yet he decided to stick around because of the child, hoping that things would get better after the birth. She became more affectionate with him again and it seemed that everything was getting better. However, when the child was born she contacted the secret lover again. He was hesitant at first, however she was bringing the child to their dates and was giving ambiguous answers to why she was doing that. The lover started to question the fatherhood of the child. She avoided talks about blood test to clarify who is the father and was answering that it might be actually better for the child to stay with his “officially recognized” father because he is more sort of ready to take care. At the same time, she practically lives with the official father of the child and sleeps together with him in the same bed. Occasionally they have sexual intercourse and she explains this as a mere sexual experience and need. She claims she has clearly explained to the official father that her feelings for him are dear and now they are just friends and partners for the sake of the child. The official father is providing complete financial and moral support for her and for the child and is acting as a real husband, much more than as a friend.
I do not know what to make out of it. Her arguments can be quite persuasive, although the feeling haunts me that this is all just terribly wrong and complex. Sometimes she cries in despair, sometimes she comes out strong and pragmatic. I do not know what advice to give. As a close friend I will be deeply involved in the life of this child and I am worried.
This may be a bit of a harsh response!
She is being really selfish, wants it all, wants the excitement of the lover and the home comforts of the quasi family. It is not fair on the husband and it is not fair on the child. She needs to grow up, she is acting like a teenager and utlimately the truth always comes out and if she not very careful she will end up losing custody and her husband will develop feelings of hate alongside the ones of love. I know it sounds harsh, but her behaviour is appalling. If she is your friend you need to tell her sort herself out otherwise she will loose absolutely everything and there will be no going back. The most important person is all of this is the child and at the moment she is not putting that child first.
This is a fantastic site, I have learnt so much from what I have read but still I have questions as to what to do. I guess every person’s story is different and one answer doesn’t fit all.
This is my dilemma, though my mind tells me that it isn’t a dilemma at all, just something that should be let go and live for what I have and what I care about and forget the rest but… what if? Creeps into my mind. An opinion would be greatly appreciated.
My ex and I were junior high school sweet hearts. We wrapped ourselves up in just us. From the time we were 14 we had decided when we would marry, where we would live and we even started to purchase things for ‘our house’. It was obsessional. We went through school and college doing subjects that would complement the other. His career choice was easy, he was going back into a 5th generation family business, on the other hand, I would have to find something to occupy my time, more than a career. We had it pat, and knew what life would map out for us. By the time we were 21 everyone was resigned to the fact that we would marry, but our plan was to wait until we were 25, because by then he would have finished his degree (and so would I) and he have bought out his brother’s from the family business. We didn’t want complications of us being married to interfere with this as there could have been some conflict. We didn’t live together, but we were practically in each others pockets.
At 23 I fell pregnant. It wasn’t part of the plan, and I have no idea why, but he said,
have an abortion and I freaked. It was our first argument and in a fit of anger I ended the relationship.
I had only confided about the pregnancy to one other person, a guy at work who’s sister was bringing up her little girl on her own, when he knew that I had dumped the ex for some reason he just said he would be happy to marry me. I married him a month later. We had never dated, never held hands and suddenly we were married. The ex’s family and mine were in shock. I had only known this guy 3 mths through work what had I done! The baby was born early, and disabled, she lived 4 days, but my husband stood by my side and cried as much as I did. We moved on and adopted 3 teens with disabilities and have spent our lives dedicated to working with the disabled. Life is good but not passionate.
Married 24 years now, we are comfortable, we still have children in care, though they are adult, however, the ex has never removed himself from our lives. At first I refused to speak to him, I even had a no contact order put on him for the first 3 years of our marriage when any contact was abusive, but the courts refused to continue it because his contact was only via the phone. My husband began the dialogue with him first. When he called my husband would chat to him and tell me that the guy was really depressed and that he had concerns for his mental health, that we had a long history and that staying friends was the right thing to do. He calls every week, sometimes every day, I have never call him. Occasionally our paths have crossed socially, and because our families were entwined we have shared the death of all our parents and other major family dilemmas.
He married at 30, to a girl he met through a dating agency. He told me at the time that it was convenient and he wanted children, they have two.
Last year I attended a school reunion, the ex was overseas on business and I never expected him to be at the function. My husband chose not to go as it was interstate. But the ex was at the function and I felt like I was 14 again. The reunion was a whole weekend affair and he was constantly in my company, we never did anything except talk and dance together but even friends from the function commented that we still had a connection, that it was palatable and electric, their words not mine, though that is definitely how I felt. I don’t know why, but I didn’t tell my husband he was at the reunion. The ex has continued his weekly phone calls, and has asked me to ‘run away’ with him. At the moment I am just making a joke of it with him, each time he asks, ignoring an answer one way or the other.
We are almost 50. We have families and commitments. I don’t know what his wife is like, other than what he tells me, which is that she is a nice person, with strong values and a dedicated family person. I do know that my husband is the salt of the earth. You couldn’t find a more wonderful man. He is loving, devoted, caring, sharing, kind considerate and a perfect husband, gentleman and father, who’s first thought is always for me. His love oozes. I on the other hand, would never say I have ever loved him passionately, it is a marriage of convince with several mutual interest, though I do have a companionable love for him and don’t want to hurt him. BUT… what would life be like with the ex… keeps coming to mind. So many people would be hurt if I took up his offer. BUT… would I feel complete? The questions and the responsibility keep coming to the fore and I am tying myself in knots.
Tina: thanks for sharing. I do have to wonder why you would jeopardize what you have with your husband for some elusive passion that may or may not exist with this other person.
While it’s nice to have passion, the salt of the earth stuff is what gets us through life. I can never tell someone do this or don’t do that but it sounds like your ex is kinda screwed up and if you run away with him, how do you know he won’t run back and then your life is in shambles.
Maybe you’re fantasizing about something you never had and would like to have. You started off with your husband as a stranger and there was no passion but what you have with him is incredible. I would think twice about throwing it away. It’s very precious.
A night of passion can be had with just about anyone…but a lifelong commitment is something that is rare. And what is your responsibility to your husband? None? If you hurt him, then what? How do you live with that? How do you go on knowing you did this to a person who was there for you in every way? Is that going to sit right with you? I would suggest that you be careful. Know what you have, know what you want and see what the distance (and consequences and responsibilites are) is between them.
Many of us have “what if’s” and could even make some of those happen in our present lives…but at what price?
Thank your for your reply Susan, you are right, 100%. In my mind I know this. You have not said one thing I have not thought of.
More than likely it is a midlife crisis or something! LOL I am tired of the responsibility and being good! If I compare the two men, my husband wins hands down, considering that I know the antics of the ex and the way he lives his life is for him. Then of course I think, is that because he doesn’t have me. He never expected me to leave. He has said over the years that if I had just given him a chance he would have got used to the situation.
I know that one can’t go back. The reality is that I have a good equal relationship with my husband, I can be who i want to be. I know that the ex has lived his life very selfishly, changing those habits would be neigh impossible for him I think. I think I just needed to see the situation from someone else’s point of view, or at least have some one tell me what I already think. Thank you.
Tina,
You said:
“The reality is that I have a good equal relationship with my husband, I can be who i want to be.”
You can be who you want to be. That is so important for the short time that we are on this earth.
Unfortunately, I don’t think it is possible to have a close relationship with your ex – at the same time, it is possible to have a casual relationship with them, calling for birthdays and inquiring about their family. My full thoughts are on: http://sophiasparx.blogspot.com
~Sophia Sparx
I think this advice is patently ridiculous. My absolute best friend in the world is someone that I dated 7 years ago. We go to each other when we need to feel that someone truly values us. We both actually got dumped a week and a half ago, about 3 days apart– i was the first person that he called, and he was one of the first people I called. In fact, almost all of my best friends are former exes. They are people that know me well, and whom I can trust. And, by the way, so many of them have been the main ones helping me feel better about myself after this break-up.
Now, i don’t stay in abusive relationships. That might make a difference… But not all relationships end so poorly.
To this day, I actually feel hurt when people i used to date don’t want to be my friends. There is a reason i went out with them– I thought they were wonderful people. Why not be friends with them?
I am not best friends with everyone I dates– some people were not appropriate for me in obvious ways. But to discourage people from being friends at all is just downright silly.
Elizabeth,
It’s great if you can be friends with all of your exes. I think in cases where a breakup is mutual and both parties agree that it is for the best (and the breakup is desired by both), it is possible. Most breakups are not like this though. If yours have been this way, great. You say most of your exes are people you can trust? That’s great for you, but in my case it is different. Abusive situations aside, how about in cases where an ex has cheated on you or dumped you for another person? How can you trust someone like that? I think that counts as a huge breach of trust. This is what happened with both of my most significant exes.
I was cheated on by the first and I was suddenly and completely without warning, dumped for another girl by the second. I now trust neither of these guys. Especially the second because he seemed like such a “good guy”. I question whether anything out of his mouth was ever honest (claims of caring for me, etc) if he could betray me so easily. He didn’t even discuss any problems with me and try to work them out before making a decision to end things. Staying friends with him was too hard for me under the circumstances because I felt betrayed. And still being in love with him (since I had no time to change my feelings), it was painful to hear about him with the girl he dumped me for. I found that friendship didn’t work for me because I still had feelings for him. I felt myself feeling attached to him still and holding out hope that we would reconcile. Besides, how can you start a “friendship” from a place of hurt feelings and betrayal? It’s very difficult. If you can do it, you are a stronger person than I am.
Lisa Anne
Lisa Anne: I don’t think it has to do with strength. You are a strong person. I’ve seen the work you’ve done in the past few months and you are doing GREAT. Don’t compare your insides to others’ outsides. I’m not sure Elizabeth is the model to be striving for. You are correct in that you CAN’T start a friendship from a place of hurt and betrayal. Very very important thing to consider Lisa Anne….very good stuff!!!!!
Elizabeth: your experience is not common and perhaps the general rule does not apply to you. As a therapist I have seen so many people get hurt trying to be friends with their exes. If being friends works for you, that is fine and well and good. Knock yourself out. For the majority of people it doesn’t work and this has been addressed over and over again on here that there IS a small minority of people who can be friends with their ex’s. Bravo. Good for you. This advice is for people where it is HURTFUL and the ex is trying to guilt them or goad them into staying friends. Not everyone is still wonderful at the end of the relationship as they were in the beginning. It’s just not that way for everyone. A lot of people here have been hurt by people who turned out to be not so wonderful.
You said that you feel hurt when someone you’ve dated doesn’t want to be your friend. This signifies that it’s all about you. The other person does NOT have to be your friend which is what I’ve been trying to impress upon people who are on the other side of someone like you. The fact that you don’t get it tells A LOT about you…and why you would find this advice to be “ridiculous.” It’s not about YOU. It’s about the other person and their right to say, “No, I don’t want to be friends with you.” You don’t get that. I’m not surprised.
Also, if my best friends were all ex’s, I’d be looking very carefully at something because THAT is so far out of the norm, it’s almost unbelievable. Is there ANY depth at all to any of these relationships? And to compare the experience of everyone else to yours which is completely outside the norm….well that’s what is silly.
To Susangpyp:
Are you this condescending to your patients as a “therapist?” I can’t imagine how you treat a patient if you can’t handle disagreement.
Perhaps I just have better luck picking partners than other readers do, or than . Or better coping skills. As i said, I DO NOT stay in negative or abusive relationships– I cut them off.
Obviously other people ahve a right to not be my friend afterwards. But i can only think of 1 person that is not my friend where I wanted them to be. I don’t force anyone to be my friend. Your characterization of me as being that way is both reductive and defensive.
I think that people need to assess the situation rationally both in and outside of a relationship. If the relationship is bad, get out! If readers get out of bad relationships earlier, or before things get so hurtful that they can’t go any further, then maybe they would have more success at being friends.
But also i think that I just have a high level of trust and respect for almost everyone I date– and try to maintain that. If the other person acts with respect and dignity, and i do the same, then I don’t see why I can’t be friends afterwards. I hold a very high standard for the people I date.
Almost all of my relationships evolve out of friendships. I don’t see why an unsuccessful attempt at a relationship would equal no friendship afterwards.
And my multiple, multiple friends that I once went out with would likely agree– haha, after all, probably about 6 of them sent me caring letters or initiated chats with me or called ME this last week when I got dumped. Oh, yeah, I am really pushing them into it…
You are just being dismissive.
This discussion doesn’t seem to offer any conflict resolution strategies or ways of owning and dealing with your emotions other than cutting people off. That jsut seems like dealing with the symptom and not the source of the problem.
Haha, thankfully I AM outside the norm. I love my friends, they love me, and we have deep, respectful and meaningful friendships. It would suck if we had to dump each other as friends just because we once dated.
And no- it doesn’t happen right away– with one of my past exes who has been super helpful this last week, my go to guy, i had to restrain myself from talking to him for 6 months. But AFTER THAT I knew that he was a wonderful person, a social justice lawyer with a great spirit, that I really wanted to have in my life. And he obviously feels the same way. He let me heal, but he was always ready to be my friend.
Elizabeth,
I’m not refusing to be my ex’s friend just because we once dated and therefore “can’t” be friends because of some unwritten rule. I’m not his friend because we were in an exclusive relationship and he cruelly and callously, without warning, dumped me for another girl then wanted to turn me into an immediate friend. He broke my heart badly. I thought he was a wonderful person when we were together. He was NOT abusive. It was NOT a bad relationship. Had I known things would turn out badly, would I have ended it before? Sure. But how does one know? I took a lot of time getting to know him before we dated and he seemed different than most men. If someone had told me how things would end and that he would betray me, I never would have believed them.
I don’t really see how he deserves my friendship after the decisions he made. Am I just supposed to hang out and catch a movie with him and the girl he left me for? Let him cry on my shoulder about her when he caused me so much pain? I am the one person who was hurt because of their relationship so I refuse to let him flaunt it in my face. If you can do it, yes you do have better coping skills than I do. Do I HAVE to overlook what he did and HAVE to invest in him as a friend just because we dated? Is that another unwritten rule? He and I have no bitter feud going on. I simply told him that being friends wasn’t the best idea under the circumstances and I wished him well. I handled it as maturely and with as much dignity as possible. We went on about our separate lives. Just because exes aren’t friends doesn’t mean they are enemies who constantly fight and hate one another.
Friendships should be a joy in your life, not something that causes you pain and constantly reminds you of a betrayal. Who I choose as a friend has to be trustworthy. That is the number one requirement in my friends. Had he broken up with me over a different reason than another girl, I may have been able to be his friend eventually. If you are such a better judge of character than everyone else, why do you have so many exes anyway? I feel that you are the one being dismissive and condescending to others who handle a breakup differently than you do.
Lisa Anne
Elizabeth: I really don’t owe anything to you as you’re not my “patient” and you came on here, a blog that is free that I spend a lot of time and energy on to help others, and called my advice ridiculous and silly. I don’t owe it to you to make any sense to you or to change my posts to suit you. If you don’t like my tone or my posts, there is a whole world of blogs out there for you to go and talk about whatever. If it’s not there, go make one. Go take several hours of YOUR day and spend it helping others who are having a hard time. Then we’ll talk. I don’t have to offer “conflict resolution” and I don’t care if you don’t like that. There’s a whole world out there including ones that tell you “how to get your ex back.” I’m not about that…never have been, never will be. There are probably some that tell you how to be friends with your ex. Go find them and discuss “conflict resolution.” You’re not going to find that discussion here. If you don’t like that, then go somewhere that has it.
I AM being dismissive of you because that is what your post warranted in my opinion. This blog isn’t a democracy. I don’t have to consider your thoughts when they go againstwhat I believe in and advice that I believe will help others. I don’t know who you are but I know who I am and what my experience is and it differs COMPLETELY from yours.
Neither you nor anyone else needs to approve of what I say or recommend. Take what you like and leave the rest.
Again, YOUR EXPERIENCE IS OUTSIDE THE NORM. Most people’s relationships DO NOT evolve out of friendships and re-evolve back. They just don’t…and I’m not going to kowtow to anyone yet alone someone whose experiences differs from just about everyone else.
I’ve seen too many people hurt by ex’s who are upset when they want to be friends and can’t be. I’ve never said it’s not possible….I am friend with one of my ex’s but in the MAJORITY of cases, it’s not possible and the ex guilts the other person into trying to be friends. If you don’t like my advice, DON’T TAKE IT.
But you’re the one who was dismissive and condescending and came on here to pick a fight with me. Therefore I owe you nothing and that’s precisely what you got. If you want to start a blog telling others how to be friends with their exes: KNOCK YOURSELF OUT.
But don’t come on here and tell me what I should offer or why my advice is “ridiculous or silly” and expect that I’m not going to be condescending or dismissive. I don’t have to explain myself to you and I certainly don’t need to be nice to you.
I don’t NEED your approval and what you think of me is none of my business. If this advice doesn’t work for you, then don’t take it…if you think there is a way to stay friends with the ex and it warrants discussion and analysis then start your own blog and have that discussion.
But I’m not going to reconsider something I’ve spent 20 years figuring out and come to the opposite conclusion of you just because you say so. Sorry not happening. Not today. If you don’t like that, too bad so sad.
Wow guys. A lot of food for thought. I agree with the betrayal = no friends thing. Betrayal just seems to highlight that there are some serious things under the surface that the betrayee just needs to get away from.
Now that I think of it, comparing the exbfs that I stayed friends with (moderately close- I think there’s no staying as close as you were when you dated unless you haven’t let go), none of these relationships ended with any horrible stuff- it just didn’t work for either them or me. And I’ve found that NC for about three months in these situations is helpful anyway. But the exbfs that I don’t think I could be friends with were ones that played out some of my issues from my childhood…and of course, the last exbf with betrayal *and* issues from my childhood- why would I want a friend like that?
Susan and Serenity,
I agree with your posts. I think that exes can be friends in some instances…a mutual breakup being a primary requirement, or even in a case where enough time has passed where all of the romantic feelings are gone and any hurts or slights have been forgiven or resolved. When you still have romantic or hurt feelings, it is very difficult to just sweep everything under the rug (no matter how convenient that would be for the rejector) and just be pals. I was made to feel guilty enough by my ex (who also claimed to be best pals with all of his exes) for not being his friend that I take particular offense to a poster coming on here saying that it is the norm for all exes to be best friends and that there is something wrong with those of us who can’t do it. That we are weak and can’t cope or have just plain terrible judgment of character. I am a very nice person and even after what he did I tried to be “mature” and be like him and be his friend and it just didn’t work for me for numerous reasons.
Lisa Anne
Elizabeth,
Were you needing support from a break up? Is that why you came to this blog? If you were willing to share about that maybe we have something to offer you? Or you us.
I have very strong and definite opinions about certain issues, too. Sometimes in order to be heard, I take an adversarial approach, to give strength to what I want to say. In the process of getting others to “hear me”, I may pin them down, figuratively. So, I can be heard. But that approach can have the opposite effect: it pushes them away, or makes them mad, so they really DON’T want to hear me AT ALL.
Anyhow, if you’re out there still, I’d like to know what brought you here.
Peace,
Seeif
I’m new to this whole recovery thing…..I’ve only recently and finally accepted that I’m a total codependent and a major enabler. Reading what Elizabeth said really sent me for a loop. Ok, yes, there are some people from my past that I still have ties to but mostly because of children or other things. Only one of my exes do I want to still be friends with but right now we have both accepted that we need to have NC and that is what we are doing. We are both codependent and come from almost exact family situations….our lives have played out in almost exactly the same pattern…..we have both realized that the most loving thing that we can do for each other right now is to detach and stop controlling our friendship……that our friendship will be here when we’ve each worked through our issues seperately…….because without detaching we will just continue to be each other’s “go to guy/girl” quoting Elizabeth…..that means that the cord would always be attached…… It’s always much easier to reach out to someone that is known to you to find external comfort for your internal struggle……I don’t want to sound hateful but I really think that Elizabeth is still somewhere in that circle of looking outside to find happiness and that is what she is doing with all of her exes…..It’s just my opinion but from the short time that I’ve been working on my issues I’ve learned that I always tried to stay friends with those that did not and still do not deserve my friendship……none of us need to feel that we are not healthy because we do not accept Elizabeth’s opinion….especially when I know for me she did not make me feel good about some choices…..which is a red flag. Every day I struggle with the loss of the person that I still want to be friends with and every day I remind myself that letting go and not controlling our relationship is the most loving thing that we are and have ever done for each other. I don’t think that we should always be friends with our exes…….I’ve had a lot of exes and there is only one that I can say that I still “like” which is more important than loving in my opinion and still want to be friends with in the future…….after I have healed and he has healed…..if he does not heal and does not do what he needs to do for himself then no, we probably won’t make it as friends but for now it’s not in my hands……the only thing that I can control is my behavior and my work on my own recovery. I’m not sure why Elizabeth is on this blog when she obviously has it all figured out. I appreciate this blog and I am learning from every one of these posts…….Thanks Susan!!!!!!!!
Kris,
I agree. I too have struggled for a long time with missing my ex and wishing things had turned out differently. He is the one ex that I may have liked to be friends with. It hurts me that we no longer speak. Declining his offer of friendship wasn’t an easy decision for me and is something that really bothered me. It upset me to have to cut off contact even though he is the one who caused the falling out in the first place (broke up with me to be with another girl). I wish that he and I could have remained in touch because I do care for him and like a lot of things about his personality. I simply miss talking to him. I wish that I could somehow have turned off my feelings of both hurt and of love and just continued to talk to him as a friend but that was not possible under the circumstances, thought I did give it a try. Elizabeth’s posts, whether intentional or not, did make me feel like I am a terrible person for being unable to be his friend. But I suppose it is just a sore subject for me. By the way, none of my close friends are in touch with any of their exes either, though I know there are exceptions to every rule.
Lisa Anne
Lisa Anne,
You are in no way a terrible person because you could not remain friends with your ex. I would still feel the way you feel (Missing him and his companionship) but would not be able to remain his friend either if my ex betrayed me by going to another woman. I actually broke up with my ex last year but we remained in a bad place until just recently when I figured out what we were doing. He needs me but he needs me too much and it’s because he is afraid to face his past……just like me needing him….but it’s not a healthy “need” for either of us. we would end up tearing each other apart if we did not separate for now. His problems became my problems and it was making me mentally and physically sick…..for right now I need to just take care of me…..I’m trying to learn to put me first……which is a hard order for a life-long enabler!
Kris
I just had a thought……..there is nothing that says we “have to” be friends with anyone…..friendship should not be an obligation….not something that is contrived but freely given… something that brings good into your life and that goes for all friendships….not just romantic relationships…….I will have to make this one of my thoughts in my journal……so that I don’t ever let myself feel bad because someone said that I should be friends with someone even though I know that those people I’ve left behind were left behind because they did not make me feel good and therefore should have been left behind. I love the way that this blog really makes me stop and think!!!!!
Elizabeth,
I see that in your original post you said you were “dumped” by someone about 2 weeks ago. Two weeks after my break up I was in a lot of pain, a lot. And, really angry. He absented himself from me immediately. I had no opportunity to express my anger, or pain, to him.
I still had the anger and the pain, though. Expressing anger then –about anything — was much safer than feeling the pain. I remember feeling more indignant about more things than I would have other times. In retrospect, I think tapping into anger, feeling indignant, outraged about other stuff make me feel more empowered.
Feeling anger allowed me to feel less helpless from his rejection and indifference.
Somehow, I think I felt that to feel the pain of the rejection (of being dumped) would paralyze me, be unbearable.
Anger, often expressed as being indignant, kept me safe. Safe from the pain I felt would be unending if I allowed myself to feel it.
I needed to feel safe because I was feeling so lost. Anger helped me feel less lost, and…it gave me a sense of control over my budding depression. It energized me to go through my day, was a little electric shock that when it happened, temporarily booted me out of my sinkhole of sadness.
If you’re still reading, maybe some of this resonates for you.
Seeif
I recently broke contact with my ex. We were together just over 2 1/2 years and lived together for 6 months. I noticed after christmas last yr he was distant with me and after persisting him tell me what was on his mind he told me he didn’t feel we had a future anymore. I pleaded with him to think about his decision which he drew out over a period of 2 months before deciding he didn’t want to be with me. We kept in contact for a while afterwards sometimes talking every day. He is now with someone else and i told him i needed distance and time to heal plus i have to step back because another person is invovled now. He was the one wanting the contact but we both wanted to remain friends. We may one day be friends if its meant to be but for now i need to heal and find myself again.
hello all, after doing some searching through the web about breakups and stuff related to them i cam across this site.
i met my ex through a friend in the US, after spending alot of time talking both through MSN and cam/mic we became very close, we decided that we would like to be together, so being from the UK i went over to visit and stay with her and my freind for a while, this went on for a few years and we were very much in love, had plans to move and be together, get married and the whole lot, life was good.
but on one visit she became pregnant, this wasnt bad as we had talked about it and decided that we would like a kid to add to her daughter, that it was a step we were willing and able to take at our stage.
but it wasnt to be, the pregnancy was very difficult, and she eneded up having to have an abortion to save her life, i was with her for it, but totaly cut off, wasnt allowed to be with her for any docs appointments or hospital visits, the night they did it i had to sit and comfert her while she was in incredible pain before the ambulance came, one of the hardest things iv ever done, after it all we were still together, but it had all changed, where we are at right now is that we are not together, but we would both love to become friends, i had a short relationship at the start of the year and she is contemplating one now, but i find that i have a huge problems being a freind to her, it is just so difficult and feelings i thought i had dealt with are all coming back to haunt me every time we talk, which is only ever on MSN now, i know that there is never likley to be anything more between us, but i cant seem to stop the pain of it all, every so often i just think what could have been, i really thought we had found our life partners, now im not sure if i need to take a total break from her to help me heal myself, or if i should stay in contact to help her any way i can.
sorry for the ramble, needed to say this stuff somewhere,
norman
Hi Norman
My advice is different to everyone’s above – please feel free to take it or leave it! I just think you are the best person to decide what you want; and also to think about why you want them. A lot of the answers above seem predicated on the idea that personal happiness is the most important thing of all; I don’t necessarily agree that that’s the case.
If you’re finding it difficult to decide what you want, and if your ex is honest and you have a good relationship with her (ie, you don’t stress each other out when you do talk, and can talk honestly and openly to each other) then I’d suggest being honest with her and getting some advice/deciding together what you both want and if you can be friends. To my mind, that’s best, as you can’t tell what she’s thinking unless she tells you (if she’s honest, that is); everything else is just a bit of a game of “what if?”, it seems, though a very painful one.
Also, even if you decide you can’t be friends for now, maybe one day you could be. Just don’t rely on that if that’s what happens. My best friend is someone I went out with for 5 quite tempestuous years; we met a few times immediately after we split up, then didn’t speak for about a year, as it was too painful for both of us (I split up with her, she wanted me back, I couldn’t understand why she’d want that, and was really upset as I was clearly causing her to be unhappy, so she decided she didn’t want contact at all and of course I had to respect that, no matter how much I missed her). Eventually, she sent me a really funny text message and we got in touch again – it was still tough at first, as there were still some sexual feelings, but these just seemed to change and we were left with love. It’s great, though we were both very lucky. My point is that we had to be honest with each other and the primary motivation from both of us was love (though I think we’d stopped being in love with each other a long time before we split up). In the end, we became good friends. It might not happen; there’s no law that it must; but saying “no” now might just be a good way of owning up to feeling low and pained, moving on from that, and then seeing how you feel about the other person. You might still love them (as a person); if they feel the same way, and are happy to be in touch, then there’s nothing wrong in meeting up and finding that again. Just be careful about why you’re doing what you’re doing – and a break maybe wouldn’t hurt, either. But you know your situation better than any of us! Good luck, whatever you decide, and best wishes.
PS –
In my experience, friendship isn’t something you can just “turn on”; it’s gradual and takes time; you can’t just decide to be someone’s friend and then that’s it, you are. Especially when you’ve gone out with that person. What I’ve found is that it takes time apart and then, if you both actually still want to be in touch when the pain has died down, you take it from there and see what happens. This is just from my experience, of course!
PPS
Sorry, this is the last part now! Just going to say that sometimes you go out with someone and it just doesn’t work, and after all the high emotion’s gone, you don’t really bother with that person anymore. Sometimes you really love someone but a sexual relationship just didn’t work out; then, given time, it’s possible to be friends I think. But it really depends on your situation and how you treated each other when you did go out, and even if that’s all good, you can’t rush into it, it takes time, because you have to make sure you can live your own life again first/ as well, and make sure you are not too broken-hearted or down. I’d caution against rushing into a friendship, because if you’re still feeling emotionally distraught by the break-up then that could be your primary reason for getting in touch; which would be OK if you got back together, but if you don’t want that, then best to deal with the pain first. Sorry if this sounds confused!! I’m done now!
I would say it is the exception rather than the rule, that after a longterm and significant relationship, it is possible to be “friends” (which to me is different from being “friendly”, but I mean real friends here, like any other friend you would meet and share important things with). It occurred once or twice in my life that after a while, I could be “friends” with an ex, but that was with those who had been more an “affair” and less a committed relationship. Those were the most uncomplicated to deal with, later on. Wanting to be “friends” is a normal urge I guess, but it’s misleading b/c in reality, many of us don’t want to be “just that” and then it’s better to have nothing at all, at least for a long time to come. And then see what happens. As Simon says, you cannot “plan” on being friends (just as you cannot plan on most things in life). But I think that many times, when you are actually ready to be friends (after a long time, and after really being not broken-hearted anymore), it may often happen that you don’t WANT to be friends anymore, because you have moved on, changed and left that person behind, somewhere in the past….when you meet up then, you may realize you don’t connect anymore, no matter how good you may have been as friends at some stage in your relationship….when I broke up with my ex (relationship of almost 5,5 years) 2 months ago, we were both still in love but there was no way left to save the rollercoaster of our relationship. I do not want to be “friends” at the moment, finding the distance much healthier and will see what happens in a long time from now. Not sure I will want to be friends then either, although we had an amicable breakup (despite all the drama during the relationship, the end was “fair”). But that does not make me confuse it with being “friends”. I do have contact with men I have loved in the past, but would not call them “friends” either. There is just so much more that you share in a real friendship, and as Susan said in one of her posts, it’s better to be friends with someone you haven’t slept with (or, I would say, you havent had a significant and longterm relationship with………..)
My boyfriend of six and half years just broke up with me about 2 months ago – well, to be fair, I broke up with him first because of lots of issues going on in our relationship, but then took it back within hours after thinking things through and realizing our issues were ones I thought we could work on as we had so many other things over our relationship. Then, after basically not coming home for two weeks straight, he broke up with me. That was two months ago – in the intervening time he’s said he wants to think about things – which I was sadly pleading him to do and we kind of strung it out for another couple of weeks before he said that he hadn’t changed his mind, still wanted to end things, etc. He has since moved out (we’ve lived together for 6 years) and I have found another apartment that I will be moving into soon.
He wants to be friends and says he does not want to ever have to wonder whats going on in my life. We talk almost daily, usually I am the one initiating the contact but not always, and see each other very frequently. He says he still loves me, no one will ever replace me, etc. I, of course, have been taking all of these things as signs that we will get back together, that this is just a phase, or stage, or whatever. Before we broke up, he was saving for a ring and we had planned to get engaged this winter. We were saving for a house and planned on having children, etc. etc. He says that i am his best friend and I say that to him too – I feel that. But i’ve begun to feel very pathetic and hurt by our interactions – i call him and he doesn’t pick up or return my call until the next day – or doesn’t even acknowledge that i did call the next time we talk. I text him and he doesn’t respond. When we are together, everything feels really good and right, but then he leaves i feel the loss all over again.
I truly feel that this man is my soulmate and that our breaking up is really wrong – i feel like he feels that way too, but then i think i’m just delusional. He did move out of our home, and even while saying that he loves me and will always be there for me and can’t imagine his life without me, is also saying that our relationship is on another level now and that we are not together anymore, that we are “friends”. I have told him that I can’t and don’t want to be “just friends” with him right now. That I am in love with him and want to spend my life with him. He has said i will never be “just his friend”.
I recognize that this time will be really good for me to work on myself, find happiness within myself, and learn to love and trust me just for me again. I feel like it is in my own best interest to stop all contact with him, at least for right now, but I can’t bear to do it – i’m afraid that if i do we will never get back together. But maybe that is what is meant to be. I don’t know, i feel very confused. Any advice??????
Sarah ~ mine did the same thing after 3.5 years together. While I was sobbing when he broke up with me (we lived together at the time) he hugged me and so non-challantly said “don’t worry I’ll always be in your life.” I dont understand what makes feeling change like this, or make a person decide that they are just that confused to tell you one thing and do another or just remain consistently inconsistent. I am so sorry you are hurting. There is no tell what the future may bring. Perhaps if you did stop contact with him he will realize what he is losing, or you will drift further away. Either way tho, you deserve much much more and he shouldn’t have the luxury of keeping wonderful you in his life when it is convenient for him. Again, I am so sorry and I truly understand.
Sarah,
Take a step back and really trust in the process. You don’t have to think about anything else, just ‘TRUST’ the process of breaking away from him for awhile. You are not being mean, you are getting yourself together. If you’re all together with yourself and then you still think you would like to reconnect, then you can do that. But there is only one way to know, and that is to practice no contact. You cannot have both, it’s too heart breaking and too confusing. Take this time in a gentle way to just let the winds dance between you.
If both of you decide that after a significant period of time has passed, six months at least, that you would like to talk, then revisit that then. But for now, allow yoursellf to go through a process. You are not alone and it hurts but just take a deep breath and allow yourself to have some space to think, be and feel.
Sarah,
I am so sorry to hear about the pain you are in. I know how much it hurts to spend years with someone and then have it just be over. You not only have to mourn the loss of them but the dream of the life you thought you’d have together. It’s really difficult. My heart goes out to you.
But here’s my question to you: Why did you break up with him and then take it back? What kinds of “issues” are in your relationship? I ask because I think on some level you knew something wasn’t right too. He may be the one who left but it sounds like things were headed in that direction regardless. I say this because I was in a similar boat where we broke up when we were still in love with eachother and just knew it wasn’t right. That sounds like the case with you as well, and it’s my belief that these are some of the hardest kinds of breakups to deal with.
My without-a-doubt suggestion to you is to go No Contact for a long while. You have to be good to yourself and the only way to do that is to cut all ties and focus on rebuilding your life without him. I don’t think you should think about whether you will end up back together down the road because that will just keep you trapped in his web, which is a lot of times what the person who “wants to be friends” wants. It’s rarely for the other person’s benefit.
Be good to you.
Sarah,
I agree with MovingOn that there surely must have been deeper issues that caused the breakup, which you yourself had initiated first, as you say. It is very tempting to “forget” about those issues (particularly in the middle of some raw emotion and intense grief) but you must remind yourself that you are at this point for a reason.
I also broke up (or initiated the sort-of-mutual breakup) with my ex (almost 3,5 months ago) and we were both in tears and clearly still loving each other. Despite our relationship being incredibly difficult and painful, and full of drama, the breakup was actually rather amicable, and I too think that in a way, this makes it harder at first. You know, if you think that you are still loving each other etc, it kind of makes it “unbelievable” for your heart, although your mind knows the reasons for this. Your challenge now is to focus on yourself, go NC if possible (for some significant amount of time, at least 2-3 months) and to see what positive can emerge for you, in the process. But for this, you really need a clean cut, you need to go Cold Turkey and focus on yourself. I understand your fear (that you may loose him through cutting the contact) but you should please trust in what you yourself said that “what is meant to be”, will happen anyway, so I am sure that if your issues with each other can be worked out (which I doubt at this stage, without knowing details) and if it is truly “meant to be”, then it will be. Do not go for whatever is not for you, and this pause in contact can make you see things clearer. Be prepared to suffer and go through some really nasty times, probably with quite some tears involved, but remember that this is all part of the process of letting go. Write in a journal, keep posting here (you will find a lot of valuable thoughts) and give yourself a chance to see things more clearly, through a self-imposed distance. Be good with yourself, most of all.
To quote from the lyrics of a song “If things go right, we were meant to be”.
Thank you all for your great responses and words of wisdom. To give a bit of background, for the past two years he’s been working nights and i’ve been working days which we made work by keeping in contact a lot, making sure the times we were together were really special, leaving notes for each other , etc. I then got really sick (life threatening chronic illness) about four months ago and we both kind of spiraled into this really deep depression and were just not able to communicate with each other because we were each trying to protect the other person. This unfortunately lead to a vicious cycle where I was feeling very, very, very needy but also not wanting to really deal with anything and he was feeling like he wanted to “fix” things – such a man trait (sorry men on here, but i’ve found this to be true) but i just couldn’t do anything for myself. I also started really missing his presence at night. The more i nagged him to stay home with me or hang out with me, the more he wanted to go out and just forget about everything. So, anyway those are the “issues” that I was speaking about in my earlier post. I guess i agree with you guys – I do need some space to get some better perspective. But I guess I also feel like our issues are things that could absolutely be worked on through some couples therapy or just learning how to better communicate around this one issue – my illness. I know in the bottom of my soul that he is still in love with me, and I guess that is making this all so much harder. I’m going to keep posting on here. You guys have been a great help already.
Sarah,
sorry to hear about your illness. I wish you all the best. This surely makes things harder in a way, as you may feel more – as you say – “needy” at times. You seem to be cherishing the idea of getting back together with him, or finding a way to do so, and you say that he still loves you. Still loving someone, however, is not enough I’m afraid. If it was enough, then I would probably also still be with my ex. On the other hand, you wrote (in your first post) that your ex was telling you that you were “friends” now and on “another level”, and yet he says you will never be “just a friend”. That is mixed messages to me, and I can understand it very well if it confuses you, but it may also keep you stuck. You know best what is good for you, but you also said that you felt it was better to cut off contact for a while and concentrate on yourself. So maybe this “inner voice” is already giving you the best advice? And one more thing: The fact that you think the “issues” can be solved through counselling or whatever, is probably not enough, as it takes two…
PS: you also say that you nagged and that sort of drove him away. That, to me, is not a good sign. My brother, who is 10years older than me, is married since over 20 years, to his wife who is chronically ill since 9 years (cancer). He dedicates himself totally to her and is practically giving his life to her. He is very touching in this, and I believe this is how it should be.
Hello everyone!
The title of the thread applies to me though my problem is a bit different and I am having a hard time finding people who can relate. Perhaps because people are most often suffering in poor relationships. I on the other hand am together with my soul mate – we mutually believe this.
Some background: I come from a rather conservative family and have not had relationships until I was 25, at which point I gave up with trying to find someone perfect and became a womanizer. I had about ten purely sexual relationships more or less concurrently over four years. I did deliberately wanted to transform myself to become more attractive for women so I could eventually find someone who I could love, even though what I was doing was in conflict with my beliefs.
14 months ago I found her, and we now love each other over everything. Her past also includes two long term romantic relationships, though she says she loves me more deeply than she did at those times.
All this may or may not be relevant.
My problem is that I cannot bear the thought of her having loved others and having had sexual relationships with them. These images haunt me, the way I imagine them together, I cannot let go of them. What makes things worse is that she insists on staying in superficial friendly contact with her exes, ‘because they are nice people’. She had amicable breakups due to ‘unreconcileable differences’. I am convinced that she would never cheat on me, but it still hurts. Whenever I have to see these people I feel nauseated. I try to supress it but I can’t. I know I am an extremely sensitive and romatic person which is otherwise a great thing, but I still don’t want to feel this way. I have been tormented by these feelings on and off ever since our mutual love has become very intense, and sometimes I feel I cannot enjoy my wonderful relationship at all anymore.
Cheers for your 2 cents.
Hi John,
well, I would say: Live and let live….you’ve had a few affairs (10 isn’t that much, after all, in 4 years, so I don’t quite get the “womanizer” bit ;-) but you have no control over her past (or anyone’s, for that matter), so you are wasting your energy with that.
What could be an issue today though is YOU having to “see” those people (why is that?), because if that annoys you (which it clearly seems to do), you should be telling her that…I mean, freedom goes together with some sort of responsibility (of not hurting your partner, for example), so if there is anything she does that hurts you, tell her that you don’t agree and you want it differently.
John,
The ironic thing here is that you might look back to your conservative upbringing. No matter that you are very appreciative of this person, you really want an old-fashioned girl (very rare these days- going to have to go look into some religious sects) who hasn’t really been with anybody. So this is something that *you* have to work on. And you have to share these feelings with her because otherwise you are lying to her by keeping it to yourself.
I also agree with Greenroses. How often are these people “around”? There is something strange about a houseful of exes all the time. I don’t care how amicable the breakup was. Does she not have female friends also?
Hey,
thanks for the replies.
Right, womanizer is relative … I have not been with 100 women .. so sue me. Certainly 10 is a lot more than I would have really wanted, believe me.
We do talk about this, and she has acknowledged my concerns and reduced the number of times they meet. Thing is, we’re in a small community where its difficult to avoid seeing people if you don’t want to give up going out completely. And I don’t want to even ask her to do that.
They certainly don’t come home to us. I agree I don’t have to see these people if I don’t want to, and that’s what I usually do: stay at home. It does mean that we spend certain evenings apart when we could be together.
Serenity, I think you are right in your first comment, but there are so many things to love about this girl (like everything else) that I want to come to terms with her more liberal and easy going view of life rather than get together with some sort of nutcase from a sect.
So I realize this is something for me to work on. The question is: how to do that exactly. My feelings are involuntary as it often happens. ;-)
And yes, she also has female friends, and mostly hangs out with them. But even a little bit of these exes is very painful.
I am probably being a crybaby based on what my other guy friends tell me but I can’t help it. Too romantic I guess for this modern world.
John,
I have been friends with exes sometimes, and my boyfriends of the time didn’t have any worries- it was a given that I was with them, period, past was past. But, I hardly ever saw those exes- they were sometimes phone contacts, good wishes, etc. Anyway, it might come down to thinking of two things: Do you actually trust this girl? Or is there maybe a gut feeling that all is not right? and What is with the jealousy thing with you- is there some family of origin stuff going on, such as you having younger siblings who took your mother’s attention away from you at some point? Maybe you might want to consider those two places.
John,
what strikes me as strange: you and her spending time apart because she is – now and then – seeing her exes.
I agree with Serenity, remaining “friends” with an ex (happened to me a few times as well) seldom involves seeing them or going out with them, but rather some really loose contact by – perhaps email and text messages a few times a year. If at all. That’s my experience at least.
PS John: And my gut feeling when reading your posts was that you feel disturbed deeply by something but try to cover that up by underlining just how “wonderful” she and the relationship is. Just my 2cents…
Hello!
that observation about sibling rivalry is golden — I had no idea that could have anything to do with this. I have a younger brother of whom I was constantly extremely jealous of when I was little. So what does this mean and how do I solve it?
I did a lot of thinking today about this and came to this conclusion (again):
My catholic upbringing that told me that sex was bad for anything but procreation is in conflict with my animal self, which is biologically healthy and this conflict often makes me think that I am bad, and gives me low self esteem and a pessimistic world view.
It also makes me think that she and I are bad people for having our respective pasts which involved sexuality in conflict with my religious / romanticized beliefs.
(Question: Is romance inherently religiously rooted at some level? The first picture that comes to my mind when I think romantic is the classic chivalrous knight / lady relationship of platonic love.)
Right now I am thinking that I have to reject my religion at least in part cleanly to some degree rather than wiping it under the carpet like I have done for years now, and it will make me feel relieved.
Regarding the exes: All of her ex boyfriends and ‘legit’ lady friends see eachother regularly in a bar. She only really insists on continuing to see her girlfriends, but by visiting the venue she cannot avoid staying in touch with the exes as well, who visit the venue regularly as well. Again: small community, everyone hangs out in the same spot.
hi all i have been posting around a lot lately what do you do when the ex says IT WAS NOT U AT ALL it was all me you are a saint you are perfect ( i dont feel i am at all)
what if they say everything you wanted to hear in the nc period – everythings been answered for me now :(
so its like ok you know you have problems, its not me,
its all you and i dont know if thats worse knowing that because im deeply saddened.
he would love me and cherish me i imagine but just cant do it now… and then how would you ever know when its right to re enter contact
hi jen (aussiejen? :)
you know that that cannot ever be true (one person being “perfect”, no faults etc) so it cannot be the truth what he says here, and, given that he seems so desperate (suicidal?), it’s not healthy for you to relate to him. You feeling alone (wasn’t that what you wrote on another thread?) is another reason for staying NC, as reaching out to the ex when you are feeling a void yourself is rather destructive.
If you read this blog you will read water seeks its own level. you may be perfect for him, but not perfect. A saint is usually a euphemism for “enabler.”
In what ways are you enabling him? you seem to WANT to hear it’s not you, it’s all him but that is NOT the way it is. Two sick people do not make a well person. Two halves do not make a whole. If you are with a sick person, you too are sick.
A perfect fit is not necessarily a good thing when the person saying you are a perfect fit is a perfect mess.
It’s touching that people get all misty-eyed about their exes and assume they can still be friends, really it is (!), but as has already been asserted, that amorphous, blurred, liminal phase between intimate lover and “friend” often masks a hidden agenda – unless of course you have practical issues such as house and kids to address and even then “friends” ain’t what you are. You know you’re not. Stop kidding yourself.
My following rationale stems from a relationship where I didn’t have any of these practical issues and so is really only applicable to such circumstances.
“Friendship” assumes you are at peace with each other…you’re not. You were hurt and although it may have subsided, it still exists and persists because we live in a world where human nature, bitterness, jealousy and simmering resentment all figure. Yes they do, don’t deny it. “Friendship” assumes you can confide in each other, without censoring yourself…you can’t. “Friendship” assumes you’ve an obligation to one another…you don’t.
That person cut you out of their life and offered you their hand in friendship as a damage limitation exercise for themselves. It was a selfish act. It ensures that they don’t feel quite so bad about crushing your heart and soul and keeps you holding on when you need to walk away and heal. You’re an idiot if you accept it. Yes, an idiot.
You don’t want me in your life intimately yet you acknowledge that actually I’m a terribly interesting guy/gal, with bounteous good qualities, charming, smart, witty, compassionate, worthy of your friendship but nothing more??? Oh, well thank you, I’ll take second best, I deserve second best after all, don’t I???
Er, No.
I’m firm on this; NEVER SEE HIM OR HER AGAIN.
You don’t really want to know how they’re doing. Trust me, it’s really more than you can handle. You’ll call, lump in your throat, wondering what sort of a response you’ll get, trying desperately to supress all your emotions, maintaining a facade of pathetic pleasantries, asking utterly banal questions to which they proffer answers you don’t want to hear – usually along the lines of “life’s great, I’ve been promoted, the guys/girls at work treat me really nicely, I’ve met a great guy/girl, we’re engaged, we’ve got a dog blah blah blah.” She was allergic to them when we were dating??? That’s weird??
When you hang up the whole thing will have been an anti-climax for you. You’ll feel disappointed…why? Because you foolishly wanted to hear how they still love you, didn’t you. Tut, idiot.
But you’ll convince yourself it was a “nice” conversation, “nice” to know how they’re getting along so well without you and that next time you call them (because they won’t call you) it’ll be longer, deeper conversation. Nope, it won’t.
MAKING, BREAKING and SUSTAINING relationships is something we’re not taught. We stumble through life without the skills to do it properly, without the handbook, and we make mistakes, mistakes that cause us hurt or hurt others. It’s on the job training for everybody and just because you’re now single and all your contemporaries seem to have cracked the equation and have settled down with “the one” doesn’t mean they are better at it than you.
Look at the post on “endings”. You honour it and end it in your way. It might be difficult for you, it might be terribly sad to finally relinquish that person completely and take that step to jettisoning them out of your life entirely but view that person as an unhealthy and damaging attachment and you’re on your way to taking that step.
They’re in your head all day, a virus, a disease that afflicts every part of your body and productivity.
BREAK that “friend” relationship with your ex. You don’t need it. You don’t need to tell them you’re cutting them loose, rejecting them the way they rejected you. This is about empowering you, covertly. And besides, odds are they don’t even care about you that much anymore, hence why it’ll always be you holding up your side of the “friendship.” I say this because me ex broke up with me in May, 2 weeks before my University law finals with my only grandmother dying in hospital. My ex knew of my circumstances and was aware of how difficult a period it was for me. She wanted to remain “friends.” Did she ask how my exams went? No. When my grandmother eventually died, only a week after the exams had ended did she send her sympathy? No.
Isn’t that what friends do?
Stick your friendship, I don’t need you.
Tom,
I agree that most likely when you have been in an intimate and committed relationship, it is not possible to become “friends” after the breakup, the way it’s usually defined (what true friendship means, as you also point out).
I have never seen any of my ex’s as a true “friend” after the breakup, a friend in the sense of the word.
However, it may be possible to remain “in a friendly way”, which means sending a note on birthdays or holidays, once a year phoning to check what the other has been doing etc, but this is nothing that can be planned. It either happens, or it does not, but if it happens, both must have really gotten over the relationship for good, so it’s really “no strings attached”. And that takes time.
Time tells, as always. Certainly being “in friendly contact” is nothing that’s quite possible if you are still grieving the past. It happens – if at all – after that.
Tom,
Your post has really affected me. It really spoke to me. You are so right – when they say they want to be friends it’s all about damage limitation for them, it’s selfish and they couldn’t care less really, they’re just trying to make themselves feel better but most of all trying to make themselves look better to all they are concerned about. I’m over 4.5 months since my break-up and NC, and have been devastated, then a month ago my ex (who I work with, it’s a nightmare) after NC for 3.5 months talked to me and made sounds about getting back together, missing me etc, but also wanted to be friends. I told him I’d never be his friend. Anyway, he never came back to me or contacted me since – so much for missing me and possibly getting back together. A mutual friend thinks he was only trying to clear the air for work purposes and all the rest was BS …. and now it seems he was right. I really like your straight forward, no-nonsense thinking – it’s like Susan!! – do you have any advice for how to cope with being so broken-hearted when you have to work with your ex by any chance?
Beatrice,
you sounded so much better these past days. How are you today? I know it is difficult but be thankful that his behavior shows you it really was BS so he did you a favor by opening your eyes for good, hasn’t he!?
Do you have to see him frequently, or usually bump into him every once in a while? Become a WALL towards him, really.
Tom,
That was an excellent post – written with perfect clarity to drive the point home. Thanks! My “ex” – the guy just wanted to be friends – so don’t know if I can call him that…was friends with all his past 3 ex girlfriends. Two of them were married. He had broken up with the first one, the second one broke up with him (he stayed NC with her for few months and then they were good friends). And the third one – whom he had a rocky 1.5 year on/off relationship with – was also a “friend” a few months after the breakup. I think she didn’t want the relationship in this case and just wanted to be friends. I could never understand how you could be friends after someone hurt you so much. Maybe after you are completely over it and have moved on to the next person it doesn’t matter? I can never do it – I can’t even be his friend – because he hurt me…so its about detachment – of not wanting to know what’s going on in his life and of not wanting to share mine with him anymore. I never understood the being friends with ex thing…specially being “good friends” with ex…
Tom,
Such great comments :) All of us who have had an ex
say “Let’s be friends” can relate to what you say and how
you say it. NICE!
Hey Tom,
You are right. My ex contacted me a few days ago. I felt like i was being made used of. Whenever she suddenly thought of me, she will contact me then throw me aside for the next few weeks or months. She is selfish in some ways, past caring how i will feel or how am i. The cycle will keep repeating itself if i don’t stop it.
I understand how you feel when the ex claimed to be friends but was not there even as a friend when you need them. When i was going through a very low point of my life, my family encountered some problems, work in a mess, my best friend died, she was not there for me even though she said she will be. She did not send any regards or asking me how am i either. That was then i woke up to the idea that there was nothing such as remaining friends after a breakup.
After my best friend’s death a few months ago, i needed her by my side so much that i contacted her. But she rejected me, said hurtful things to me, refused to be by my side. I later heard that she was out shopping with some friends. At the point when i needed her the most, almost at the verge of breaking down, she did this to me. It hurt me to such an extent that i completely broke down for that period of time. That is not what i would call a friend. I called one of my friends afterwards, she offered to rush all the way down to be with me even though she was busy with something important and far away. However, i declined, i do not want to bother her since she was busy. But i cried so hard after that. Why is it that a friend is more willing to sacrifice than my ex? After all the thick and thin we have gone through together?
She then contacted me a few weeks after, saying that she doesn’t mean it and it was my fault for contacting her when she was in a bad mood. I was speechless after that. How could she be so cruel and still blame me after that? How would i know when is she in a good mood or bad mood? Does being in a bad mood give her the right to say hurtful things to me? She have the right to be angry, but she don’t have the right to be cruel.
And Tom, you are right… We don’t need such a friend. We have better friends than this.
Hi, all — just wanted to put in my 2 cents here to say that, in my experience, exs who are ‘friends’ with all their exs usually had shallow, superficial relationships with those people — at least on their part. The exs might have thought, wanted otherwise. I’m highly suspicious now of people who don’t END relationships and end them cleanly and well. It isn’t a badge of honor or sensitivity or whatever to be dragging this trail of insincerity behind you …
Hi Greenroses, thanks for asking :-) yeah, had been feeling bit better, bit stronger, but have been back in the dumps the last 2 days. No idea why, just exhausted, achy and very emotional and tearful. And thinking how much I miss him in ways I thought I was well over. I get annoyed with myself, thinking, after all I’ve read, understood, thought and done, and I still feel this? CRAZY. Yes, just very tired and miserable. I was in tears for hours yesterday and was quite distraught, bordering on hysterical, at times. Am quieter today thankfully, though am still jumpy and in his head. On good days, I am able to shout STOP at myself and it kinda works …. on bad days, he takes over my head completely and I can’t stop thinking about him no matter what I do.
I’m away for work at the mo, but normally my contact with him in the job varies. Some weeks it could be all day every day in sessions (with others), other weeks I may not see him at all. Seeing him in work all the time is a killer. I know it would make sense to leave my job, but as I explained elsewhere I just cannot – or will not. It would be career suicide. I love my work. I am finally in my dream job after years and years (and continuing) very, very hard work and there is only a tiny number of such positions in my country. I an going NOWHERE – I was here first. My hope is that he will move on – something which I think is a bit likely actually, but probably not for a few years. NEVER mix business and pleasure – there’s truth in all those cliches…
I understand how I feel is probably just yet more recycling etc … but God above I feel I should have won the Tour de France ten times over with all this bloody peddalling ….
Hope you are doing well Greenroses; you always sound so strong :-)
Hello all,
I completely agree with Tom, in fact could not have said it better.
I say that I am “Friends” with my daughters father but in reality we have a respectful business relationship for the welfare of our children.
With that being said I am on friendly terms with one of my ex BF’s. But only because we didn’t hurt each other. The relationship had simply run it’s coarse and both of us knew that the other wasn’t the “one”. But even that is not a close friendship. It’s a catch up once or twice a year type of thing.
I agree that alot of times the one who has done the hurting wants to be “friends” for just plain selfish reasons but feel that those of us that were hurt take it because it feeds right into our abandonment issues. Kinda of a “See? I do matter after all” kind of thing.
But in the end it never really makes you feel better and keeps you from doing what you really need to do- move on
Hi Beatrice,
seeing him or working with him is surely making things tougher for you. And if you love this job so very much and feel you are at the right place, you are right, why would you consider moving away? You have to be aware of the price of this though (that you may time and again be a little slowed down in your progress, but as long as you are going into the right direction….:-)
Being tearful and feeling totally fragile one day, and then a little or much better the next, is completely normal in this process, I think. I had a bad weekend and am so much more peaceful and happy since two days, so we really have to ride the wave! It’s still the best thing to do!
Yes, it’s just up and down and part of the process, you are right, and I do realise that, but I am constantly shocked at how intense the feelings are when they return. As you say though, as long as one is going in the right direction. Yes, I do know the price of not quitting my job is that my recovery will be slowed down – what can I do though? I think too it has been and will continue to be very, very much slowed down —- but I will NOT leave my dream job and turn my whole existence upside down for him. This is MY town, MY dream job and he can go to hell (ah, such brave words, and yet it is me who suffers and pines and he is going around like it’s just another day. B***tard) …. I am beginning to get the very odd, slight flash of anger, which I am happy about. Its absence was a tad worrying …. Anyway, thanks for your comments and observations Greenroses – and well done (from the other thread) on destroying the letter … big step. I did the relationship inventory ages ago, but I think it was actually too early, although it was useful, I think I will do it again. I keep putting off the Life inventory, don’t know why, guess that means I should definitely do it. It’s on my ‘to do’ list …. Happy Wednesday …
Hey Beatrice,
think of it this way: What if you are already doing your BEST, given the circumstances? Do not be too hard on yourself when it comes to what else you can do. Sometimes we have given circumstances (like, in your case, that you are still working together, I also still have this business together with my ex and although I do not have to see him and I can exit the whole thing in September, it still feels like a weight sometimes, but this is primarily HIS business and not my dream job, so I am glad to be able to leave. What I am trying to say is, even if my circumstances are a bit “easier” in that respect, I still feel it is difficult at times, but that’s how it is. I think you better accept the circumstances as they are. You are making a conscious decision of keeping that particular job, so just be aware of the “price” (this is not to say “oh the price is so big”, absolutely not, because it probably is the best for you, this choice, and EVERYTHING has a price.
Just realize it, but don’t paint black either (by thinking the process will be VERY slowed down), just deal with it. You know? As they say, shit happens, deal with it.
Tell yourself you are already doing your best! Maybe that will help?
PS: I know what you mean re. being overwhelmed by the grief sometimes. It can feel VERY intense. That shows that you are a sensitive person! Give yourself credit for that.
Beatrice – like you i have had the odd flash of anger since we both posted about worrying it was not there. I think that paying attention to anger has helped me to let it have a voice so to speak.
I too am putting off doing the Life inventory but im determined to print it out and carry it with me for a few days. I find that sometimes i get these really insightful random thoughts when im out and about so im hoping it will start to build that way.
Re being friends with your ex, i really don’t think i want that. Sure we got on great and had a lovely time, but the way he ended things and how he has been since – that has shown me such an ugly side to him. I don’t want that in my life, it will mean that im saying its ok what he did – and its not. It never will be. If i met a new friend today and they treated me like that i wouldn’t put up with it. I think once i have detached completely i will realise even more that he is an unhealthy person to have around. He has such a web of lies built around him, there might be a danger i would get sucked in if we were ever friends. I don’t want that, i want him out of my head.
Im really trying to work on my self-esteem and i won’t stop till i have tackled that monster. So when i have, im hoping i will think that i am better and deserve more. Really realise it and feel it honestly. Thats what i want.
I think i long for what he represents rather than him – it just all gets confused sometimes.
Hint of Red x
hey everyone. here is my delema. I dated this girl for 6 months. i felt that things were getting really serious and it wasn’t what i was looking for right now. she was the first person i fell in love and we have also gone through a lot. I broke off the relationship because i wasn’t ready to be very serious right now and wanted to date other people. I told her id rather be friends with her then not at all because she was a big part of my life. I told her later on we might get back together.
Now it has been about a year since we have broken it off and it is still kinda hard to be around her. I tried not not talking to her and i need time to get over her. a couple weeks went by then she texted me asking me if i would talk to her again. Since we have been hanging out we would sometimes reminise about times we were together. Its hard because i don’t know what she wants. She gives me mix signals. Right now, a relationship won’t work out between us, but i still have really strong feelings for this girl. Whenever i see her, it just brings me back to the time we were together. I’m not sure i should try to be friends with her or just try not seeing her again?
Chris,
My only advice is set the ground rules, keep it simple, don’t talk about you and her as a couple, share personal things but not too personal, it will develop as time goes on.
Would love to hear how things are going and some of the feedback you have received. I am in a very similar situtation. Good luck to you and remember… Never burn a bridge, you neve know when you may want to cross it again.
Danielle
I opened that can of worms. Being friends with the ex. Biggest mistake I made. After a really nasty episode two days ago (because he cannot stop blaming me about what I did wrong during our relationship) I’m kind of hoping he will let it die out now. I won’t be getting in touch anymore, breaking the NC to see if the ‘friendship’ thing could work was more than stupid.
During the past two weeks were we tried to be friends I got called just about every name in the book, had to listen to how depressed he was because he ‘lost’ me (newsflash dude : you left ME), about how he’s contemplating suicide (err, what’s the added value of this information ? Grow the hell up ?), and how I’m such a insensitive bitch. I’m insensitive, because, after an hour talking to him where he kept telling me first that he loved me, and then that he was moving on, and then that he loved me again, I decided to go do something else. Yeah. Right. I see your point.
I’m beyond upset at him right now, and the added value of us trying to be friends is ZERO ! I just PRAY to god he won’t contact me again, I don’t think I can send him walking just yet if he calls, but I CAN not call him.
Baby steps I guess …
I’m sorry if this post is negative. I just am so angry and upset lately, I need to get these negative emotions off my chest, and am hoping by typing them out here, I’ll be able to release some of that anger.
Thanks for reading, take care y’all.
Hannah,
Well, at least you know not to do that again. BUT, woman, you need to take back your power. You hope he won’t contact you again? Do you really? Why are you *just* hoping? From what it sounds like, he wants to drag you with him on his rollercoaster moods and make you suffer. It’s time to change your numbers, emails, and put yourself out of his reach on cyberspace. Seriously. If you don’t, realize that you are choosing here…
There was never any “added” value to being friends, as it sounds you’ve really had rubbed in your face. Even if you had a sane breakup, you would need space— three to six months of NC at least is what I’ve heard recommended. One poster a ways back said that being friends with an ex is like if your dog died and your mom told you, “But you can keep him anyway”. Bury the relationship where it belongs- it’s dead.
Time to take steps to work through your anger- journaling is recommended as well as a lot of fierce exercise. Allow the anger, and it won’t rule you as much. Get support from your friends. And consider doing the Relationship and Life Inventories on this blog. You will move beyond this guy and into yourself and better stuff!
It takes an enormous amount of courage to close the door on him, because well, I love him. We had a beautiful relationship at one point, and although we fought a lot, he’s a very intelligent and beautiful man. We just couldn’t get it right.
When he left me 2.5 months ago, well, I can’t say I didn’t see it coming, but it hurt SO much. He made the call to leave, and I figured that after an initial period of unease, we’d at least be able to share a formal hello every now and again. I didn’t aspire for more. But the formal hello turned into him wanting me to be just as attached to him as I was then, with the only difference that he gets to tell me from one minute how much he loves me and that he still wants to marry me some day, to ‘you’re not my girlfriend and I’m moving on’, to him flipping when I want to hang up the phone to tend to ordinary life.
The more I think about it, the more I think he seriously just wants me to be attached to him, without him having to be attached to me. He gets to date other people, but I still need to call him, and listen to him, and be there for him, and love him. And I don’t want that anymore. He made his decision. I could try to be his friend, but apparently that’s not enough for him, even though we even went through him ‘begging’ on the phone never to leave his life again. And I didn’t – HE made that choice.
I’m just really really confused. I still feel that after having been with him for so long, I owe it to him to take his feelings into consideration, when in fact, I guess I don’t. Realising it is one thing, actually following through is another. I can’t be callous and tell him that it’s his drama. That it’s his issue, that he needs to stop crying so much and hang up the phone.
I’m not even sure anymore if I didn’t do this myself. Maybe it IS my fault, and I’m just not seeing straight because I’m still not over this. Maybe I do provoke him.
How do other people deal with something like this ? How do you simply say ‘enough’ – after such a long period of time. HOW do you make the switch in your head to leave it alone and start focussing on yourself ?
Hannah T,
I think I had answered to you before (giving examples of how I also gave up on a very intense relationship with a lot of fights and a lot of drama), but my current take on what you wrote is, firstly:
I recommend reading “But I love him”, posted here:
http://gettingpastyourpast.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/because-i-love-him-her/
Secondly, you make that “switch” not only in your head, but with all of your being, and that means when you have truly HAD ENOUGH.
I agree with serenity, it is your choice. Your “Maybe I do provoke him” sounds a little as if you were looking for someone to tell you “no, of course, Hannah, it is NOT your fault”, well I am not that someone, I’m sorry.
It’s just my intuition that you should perhaps first try out a few of the things suggested here (and Serenity pointed them out to you), and then see if it really does not work.
You’ve had enough when you’ve enough. Currently it sounds as though you were still willing to take some more crap. And noone is going to (be able to or willing to) talk you out of that. You have to do it yourself.
Hope these words come not across as harsh, but if they do, then know that they may be harsh but intended to be fair.
All the best!
Hannah: He wants all the benefits with none of the responsibility. You don’t provoke him.
You have to end it. Being wishy washy gets you nowhere and keeps you stuck. End it.
honestly though, can u be really friends with an ex? it hurts when you are not really over it. you guys say to give it time but thats sometimes harder than it sounds. hanging out, you still remember the times you have spent with them. maybe she has moved on, i don’t know. she still wants to talk to me. sometimes i feel like its better not to talk or hang out with her so i don’t have to think about the past because i only know her as a lover and not as a friend. i’m still trying to figure out what to do. =[
i loved my ex and i didn’t think it was the right time for me to be with her.
i wanted to live my life to the fullest. live without regret. look back on life without remorse. i’m new to the dating scene and still trying to figure out what i want. but then sometimes i wonder if she was the one for me. she says just to act chill and not be awkward but i feel like i’m only putting on a show then what i’m actually feeling. someday i do want to be with her again but right now i don’t think its gonna work out.
any more advice?
Chris,
Here we advise NOT being friends with the ex, so your instincts are good about that. NC for awhile helps you heal from the breakup. For more advice, KEEP READING this blog and just comment when things come up for you.
Sorry but this sounds to me Chris like you want to have your cake and eat it too. You don’t want her now, but you think you may do in the future, so in the mean time you want to be friends? I think you should read Susan’s post about being friends a bit more closely and examine your motives. If you have broken up with your girlfriend, let her go properly
I actually read Chris’ comment as saying the opposite: that his ex is the one who wants to be friends and he is uncomfortable with that right now. Sorry if I misread!
I read it the way Kathy read it…that she wants to be friends even though he’s the one who has broken it off.
BUT I see where Beatrice is getting the cake and eat it too since he broke it off and wants to date others and maybe be with her in the future.
Maybe she should be reading here!
Ooops, sorry, I’ve re-read, now I can see both aspects!
Me, too :)
Hey All,
I haven’t written anything in here in awhile. It’s been three months since my ex and I broke up, but we’ve continued to have contact, cook intimate dinners together, say we love each other, etc. He is constantly telling me how much he loves me, that I’m his heart, “this will never end” – I guess meaning our connection to each other. We were together for almost seven years and were living together for five out of those almost seven years. Despite the fact that we’ve been in contact and I’ve been secretly (or not so secretly) feeling like we are going to get back together, this is just a break of sorts or whatever, I recently found out that he had cheated on me numerous times while we were together, and has lied to me about sleeping with other women since we broke up. I think the worst part was that I knew something was going on – for years really – but I always believed his lies over my own thoughts and instincts. He made me feel, or maybe I accepted, that I was crazy and neurotic or jealous – mostly because I didn’t want the relationship to end. Now I don’t know what to do. I want to send him a dear john email letting him know all of the ways he has hurt me, that I know he’s a lying, cheating scumbag, and that I am through. But I’m not sure if just not contacting him ever again would be better. I feel the need to set the record straight so to speak and let him know that I am no longer a fool and will not play his games anymore. Any advice would be much appreciated. I thought I was making so much progress – I got a new apartment, have a great new job, got a new puppy, etc. but now I feel like i’m back in this emotional black hole where I all I think about is him.
Hi Sarah,
I know it hurts but the only way to move forward is to let go. NC is the answer. You should make it clear to him you don’t want to have any contact with him…bu that’s it – don’t engage in a back and forth on how/why he hurt you. I know when you truly love someone, you want them to feel the hurt and the pain they have caused you. But how does it matter…look at his actions not his words…if it mattered to him he wouldn’t have engaged in those actions and he wouldn’t have cheated on you. As Susan says, don’t make someone a priority in your life if you are an option in theirs.
Take back the power. Go NC. Journal and write letters to him with all the emotions you are feeling – but don’t mail them to him. Focus on yourself. Its about you healing your heart, its about you giving yourself all the love you deserve, its about you being your best friend, and its about you moving on and living your life to the fullest.
Take Care!
Sarah,
Although my relationship was not as long as yours, I can identify with a lot of your same feelings and conflicts. I would suggest one important thing: Stop seeing him and hanging out with him. I KNOW how hard this is, especially after a multi-year relationship and reading how integrated your lives are. But if you don’t do that, you won’t be able to reap the full healing benefits of everything else you do – whether its taking good care of yourself or getting a new job or new apartment.
I also struggled with not contacting my ex. I really cared for him and didn’t want the relationship to be over and had a tough time deciding between putting up with his lying and cheating (but being able to have him in my life) versus cutting him out completely. There was definitely a point where I wasn’t even sure which was better because I cared for him so much and I wanted him in my life, even though he had lied, cheated, and hurt me. We hung out a couple times after breaking up but it was really starting to wear on me because I was hoping we were going to get back together but he was dating a new girl instantly and even then, he would lie to me about it. It got to a point where I was just so sad and consumed by it that I really couldn’t be around him without wanting to break down or scream at him. Being around him was taking its toll on me.
I was in a very very dark place for the first few months so I can only imagine how much harder it is when you two are spending so much time together post break-up.
The best thing you can do is to put some space between you and him. If the thought of not contacting him ever again seems daunting and harsh right now, try this: I essentially “tricked” myself and told myself that I was really just taking a breather from all of the madness in order to heal and the only way I could do that was to be away from him. I rationalized that it was not permanent and that one day we might talk again but not until I was fully healed and better and standing on my own two feet.
It was extremely hard at first but I find that over time (several months), the urge for me to contact him and spend time with him has really lessened. It has not disappered completely but at least now I can see that I don’t necessarily need him in my life and that I have my own life, friends, and networks to rely on.
susan elliott is a GOD !
gracias Susan !
Wow. This site is a lot to take in!
In the last 10 years, I have been in two failed relationships. One was a rebound of the other, but it was also a reunion from my past which has dragged on from 2001 to present day. I realized this relationship was over nearly a year ago, but did not have the heart to say anything. Finally, when I did get the gumption to confront the issue, we were already committed to our lease for another year. I did suggest counseling, mirroring, even just listening to each other during this time, thinking after seven years we may just be going through a rough patch and I was hell bent on trying to make it work, but found my attempts to reconcile to be futile because he just didn’t seem to give a crap.
The worst of it now is that we are still living together, even after I offered to take over the bills and suggested he leave with no strings attached, as he made it clear he didn’t want to stay. He’s resorted to living in another room and I’m not sure if it’s out of laziness, selfishness or spite, as it’s two months from his move-out date and he’s claimed he’s not even begun to look elsewhere. Sometimes he tries to do nice things, as if we are still together, but often we hardly interact and he escapes to another room or finds some reason to blow up and leave in a huff. I don’t really talk much anymore because I hate the confrontation. I would rather be alone elsewhere, then feel completely vacant with him. I suffer from depression and anxiety but refuse medicinal aid because I’m truly convinced that it’s this relationship that is affecting my moods, though I am much happier now that he and I are living separately (sort of). We have a couple more months before our lease is up, but it the pace seems to have slowed and I am getting anxious. I am so angry inside because I feel he’s being selfish and spiteful. He doesn’t respect my space or privacy which was a major issue in the relationship. He’s not verbally *as* aggressive anymore, but still has his outbursts. I don’t fear him as much as I used to but I don’t know how to address the fact that I want to sever ALL ties upon his departure but he wants to remain friends.
What is this last comment? Are you advertising your own website?
Yup Greenroses it is – just clicked on their name and it took me too another site.
Yes, just saw that too, and they use each single thread to get their advertising across – how annoying can people be? :-)
It’s a pingback. I sometimes leave them if they are legitimately linking here which this one appears to be. It’s a list of breakup resources and this blog figures fairly prominently but it were just an advertisement I would zap it as I usually do. All pingbacks (even mine to other posts) show up. I usually delete one once a day or so unless it seems to be a real resource. This one seems legitimate and does list this blog several times.
Yeah its a bit spam-like really. Im not really into those quick fix magic solution/short cut stuff myself.
It seems to be a list of resources and the site isn’t selling anything and unlike a list of link-y sites that just troll for links, this person seems to have looked at and evaluated most of the resources.
Claire,
You’re situation seems exactly like mine. I think I mentioned in a previous post that my ex is now dating a 19 year old (he’s 27) and it seems was dating her even before we broke up. He completely denies that they are “dating” and continues to tell me things like “you’re my girlfriend” or “the only person I’m dating is you”. I really just want all the lying to stop and I do want him in my life as a friend – but I think(?) i’ve finally come to a point where I do not want HIM in any kind of romantic way – but I could be deluding myself. I know that the best move is no contact, but that seems like it would almost be more painful for me than the situation i’m in now. However, I do know that i’m not moving on at all right now and just staying in this limbo state because i’m terrified of the future and what it will mean to not have him in my life. Claire, you’re advice was good about trying to just take it one day at a time, thinking that it is only a temporary no contact. Ugh, more than anything I just feel so pathetic and I wonder what he’s telling this child about me and whether he tells her when we see each other, etc. Any more advice, thoughts, commiserations would be greatly appreciated.
Why would you want anyone in your life – romantic interest OR friend who lies to you? Everyone deserves honesty.
Why would you even WANT someone like this in your life? I’d be terrified of a future WITH HIM, whether friend or lover, where he told me down was up and down was up and I didn’t know what to believe.
Susan,
You’re right – i’m not sure. I guess i’m still in a denial about who he really is. I’m not sure if you’ve read my earlier posts, but i’m in the midst of some really scary health stuff and for almost 7 years he’s been the person that I’ve gone to for a sense of security. This whole thing is just really hard – I want so badly to believe his lies and that’s probably why he keeps telling them. I know i’m a huge part of why this situation continues. And it is terrifying. I keep thinking that if I just tell him enough times that I want him to be honest with me and that the only way we can build any type of new relationship (friendship or otherwise) is through honesty, that he will actually BE HONEST. Help!! I’m in a horrible cycle and a horrible situations.
People are only honest because they decide that honesty is important. once someone is dishonest, that is how they are.
Step out of the situation. Find others to support you in this time. THIS GUY IS NOT IT.
You have enough worries without lies on top of everything else. Trying to figure out truth from half-truth from lie is an exhausting past time. You need to detach from him, find new people to surround yourself with and put a premium on honesty
Without honesty, there is nothing.
I seriously was not trying to link or advertise my site. I hope it wasn’t my post you were referring to. There is a blank for a website available on the “Leave a Reply” section, so should I have assumed that we were NOT supposed to fill that blank? I came to this site as a resource and I hope you all haven’t shunned me for my obvious oversight.
:(
30 days until he leaves. I’ve been counting down for six months. He’s trying to make me feel guilty for his lack of effort in planning his departure. If he does not move out by 9/29, my landlord advised he would be evicted. He’s trying to put all his stress on me with hope that I may change my mind. I guess that’s my perception, but I’m not sure how else to take his whining at this point.
fruitloop_daydream,
no, don’t worry, it was not your entry we have been referring to. It was another one that has been deleted from the blog. Please don’t worry, nothing to do with your post!
Thanks Greenroses!
I have been reading the site for about a month, having ended a 7 year relationship in March, but unfortunately living with my ex until the duration of our lease expires. He’s suddenly stressing about having to move out and is seemingly guilting me into staying longer, despite our mutual agreement that things were not improving. I want to sever ties at the end of the month, but he insists we should be friends. I’m at a loss considering how much history we have, since we’ve known each other since 1995 and didn’t start dating *seriously* until 2001. Last year was the last straw for me, when he started to verbally attack me, stating he had no respect for me and that he didn’t trust me. I found it odd that once I sacrificed my hobby of promoting entertainment and gave up going to shows that most of the accusatory statements subsided. Now that I’m starting to move on, I want to get more active in my Arts & Entertainment again. I think he just had an issue with me going to live shows and assumed I was fraternizing with the bands, when essentially I was interviewing them for my blog. He’s never been supportive of my career and that has always been a conflict with me as I am the one that has the ambition and drive to do something with my life and he’s content with the day to day grind and never seeks any opportunity to improve on his life or career. It’s frustrating because I do care for him, but I have gotten to the point where I’m not liking him so much these days…
I just wanted to share a link with all of you. It’s a radio show on NPR called This American Life and they did an episode on break-ups. It made me laugh, cry, and most of all seems totally true:
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1256
Sarah,
I was listening to this link and turned it off after about 15 minutes.
Why?
Because I find it depressing (I was at the part about break up songs). I assume you must be in the thick of things right now, and I can relate to your emotions, but I do not think that listening to “such songs” will be helpful. I mean, “Against all Odds” by Phil Collins, common!
In order to feel better, how about listening to “Walking on Sunshine” instead like Susan writes on one of her posts (I remember there was something along those lines.)
Seriously. Thanks for the link but maybe I was not patient enough to wait for a part where suggestions re. what to do to feel better would come (was there such a part??). As far as I have listened to it (first 15 minutes) I found it just depressing.
I have another suggestion: I just recently bought a book called “I hate myself and want to die” (the 52 most depressing songs you’ve ever heard) and it’s taking the piss out of such “heartbreak songs”. It seems like a really positive and fun read (havent started yet). Don’t get me wrong, I love songs like “Against all odds” and the like, too. Just dont think it helps through the grief.
Greenroses,
Interesting feedback. I guess because I am in the thick of it, the show really helped me to feel like my emotions and feelings about the whole thing were somewhat normal and my urge to get back together with my ex was not entirely crazy. I guess it’s kind of a misery loves company feeling. Also, if you listened to the whole thing there’s some parts that are funny and make you see how ridiculous it all is at times – even the heartbreak. But I appreciate your thoughts and feelings on the subject :)
I am in so much pain. I recently ended a year-long relationship with someone I discovered is passive aggressive. He has since admitted to this condition. This guy seemed just as sweet as pie and because I met him in a church environment I suppose my defenses were down, and I trusted him deeply.
His parents were a major factor in our relationship. They disapproved of me because I am black (they are white). Though my boyfriend told me that he didn’t need his parents’ approval, he behaved as if he did. He talked about the issue constantly and seemed to resent me for placing strain on his relationship with his parents. The other day he finally admitted that he did need his parents’ approval but denied that he was resentful of me for creating strain.
In addition to the parental issue, I now realize that he slighted me throughout our relationship. He would always distance himself from me during events and not introduce me as his girlfriend to women and men, alike. I’ve asked him if he was ashamed because I am black, but he denies this. I don’t know why he behaved like this in public, specifically during church events. If it wasn’t because I was black, all I can think of is that he was trying to appear as if he were single. At times it seemed as if he had inappropriate interactions with other women, but I didn’t want to believe this. He has confessed to cheating in the past, but I didn’t want to think he could still be engaging in such behavior because when he cheated before he had fallen away from the church. Now, I believe he was flirting with women right in front of me.
In addition to cheating in one relationship, he had another relationship in which he would break up with his girlfriend and then find a rebound girl only to return to his girlfriend again. I feel that he now wants me to be in this situation. I recently aired a bunch of grievances to him and he said that he felt ambivalent about being in a relationship with me. Now, he’s saying that he wants me in his life, that we should talk once in a while and that he needs a month or two to get closer to God and find balance in his life. I didn’t fall for it. I told him that it was best if he were out of my life completely. Now, I feel that I’ve been devalued. As soon as I told him how badly he’s hurt me, he wanted out. He also said that he didn’t feel “in love” and hadn’t felt that way in a couple of months. I know that passive aggressive men need new women in their lives to sustain their fragile egos.
Still, I am the most heartbroken I’ve ever been in my life. I am overwhelmed by a sense of betrayal. I know that I made the mistake of trusting him more than I trusted myself. I just don’t know when the pain will end. I’ve read self-help books in the past. I’ve gone to counseling for the sexual abuse I experienced in childhood. I accept that my parents did not love me when I was growing up, but I keep attracting bad people in my life. I just feel like giving up. I am so tired of this. My faith in humanity is disappearing. It’s just hard to believe that I am so utterly heartbroken, and my ex simply does not care.
NK,
it’s all very fresh for you. Your pain is now very intense and will be so for a while, but you can get through this. Please read the posts on this site and – regarding the cheating of your ex – this most recent one that explains why you yourself have chosen to settle for less than you deserve and you are the only one who can change this:
http://gettingpastyourpast.wordpress.com/2008/09/08/moving-past-it-once-and-for-all/#comment-18639
Take care and be good to yourself. Journal, cry, write here on the blog, take one step at a time.
Be good to yourself!
This is the link to the post:
http://gettingpastyourpast.wordpress.com/2008/09/08/moving-past-it-once-and-for-all/
Thanks for your help, Greenroses.
its been over a year
i think i still love her =[
cm
I’m sorry you are having a hard time. Thinking you still love your ex over a year later can be a very painful and confusing place to be…
Not knowing you “story”, all I know how to say is to request that you please continue to do your grief work – get support, journal, affirm yourself, let where you are in your healing process be okay, and despite how you may feel, remember to take that next step forward.
Susan has a great post on here addressing one’s feelings of “not getting over it” – perhaps reading this post can help you figure out what your next step will be:
http://gettingpastyourpast.wordpress.com/2007/08/13/im-not-getting-over-it/
Please be good to you…
SmilingAngel
CM,
Just because you think you still love her doesn’t change anything. You still need to work on you and move forward in your life. Yes, I still love him but that doesn’t mean we should be together.
I know it is hard but the work we do will only help ourselves and future relationships.
Take care,
M
thanks a lot for the reassurance
its hard when there somehow on ur mind everyday
Ok help.
I am always the girl who when she breaks up, just cuts off all ties FOREVER. I never have been able to get people who don’t. For the past 8 yrs I have been with one guy and now he broke up with me. (this is the first week apart) We have 3 kids together. Now, I told him I need my space and no contact (except if he is like dying or has an accident or kids have an accident type of scenario) Ok, so he turns around and says ”I want to be friends” And he proceeds to send me emails saying how he ”Sees me everywhere and he misses me so much etc” Now I am finding all this extremely difficult. When he says stuff like that I just harbour some weird inexplicable hope we’ll be back together again. This hope doesn’t allow me to move on. I feel like I am back to zero everytime he says stuff like this.
This friend of mine who is still harboring hope for her ex husband who left her for another woman- one and a half yrs after their break up- says I am being immature. But I certainly don’t want to end up like that.
Do you think this distance thing applies to parents too? Or am I being immature like this friend of mine mentioned?
Oh I said ‘no contact’ for at least 2 months. Not forever.
My story is for an against being friends with an ex
When I was 16, I dated a guy for 7 yrs. I left this guy for somone else (no cheating involved) and I wanted to stay friend with my ex. I had no emotions left for him, so it was cool with me. He, however, was devastated and could not be my friend. I understood.
A year past and him and I had a few talks. He called me one day to tell me he met a great girl. He was in love.
But we were never really close buds, just sorta of friends. His new g/f did not want me in the picture. Which was fine
A year after this, he married this girl. I was not invited to the wedding and was hurt. More time pasts and he ended up divorcing this girl. They had a daughter.
My ex an I then became very close friends. My boyfriend and him also became close. THe fact that I left my ex of this other guy was all good.
Fast forward 20 yrs later, my ex from back when I was 16, is still today my best friend. We work out together 4 days a week. Hang out, cook, and just support one another.
We are like bro and sis
Now the guy I left him for, I was with for 11 yrs. He left me for anther girl but in a very HORRIBLE way and was a coward pf of shit. I COULD NOT and WOULD Not stay friends with him. In fact, he left me 8 yrs ago and actually called me 3 weeks ago and you know what, I still wanted to punch his lights out.
And now my most recent ex, well him and I started as friends, but our relationship was dramatic and emotional. He has a good heart, but is a hurtful person. His hurt towards me comes from his pain.
I too have a serious chronic illness and he really was not there for me.
I was with him 3 yrs. I left him a few times in the 3 yrs. Once when I left him, 4 weeks into it, he was already banging some other girl
He always gave me the line’ I really love you, always will and wish we can be friends” He has no friends but me
I refused.
Now we ended it AGAIN and on a bad note. Why, well I was just told last week I’m going deaf, I was SO DISTRAUGHT and all he could say was “Do you need me to come over” Not “I’m coming over”
He’s a game player. I told him I’m done!
He said, let’s take some time and soon we can be friends.
Yeah ok!
I have so much anger and resentment towards this ex, I will not ever be his friend. I wish I had stayed only his friend when we met cause he was/is a much nicer person as a friends.
Being friends with an ex is rare. I’m so happy my ex found it in his heart to stay my friend. but it took him years to work on that.
HE WON’T GO AWAY…
So, I met this guy when I was eighteen or so and we briefly dated. I went off to college and we didn’t speak for a couple years. In 2001, we stumbled upon each other and began dating seriously. We went through living together and separate several times, fought like cats and dogs for all that time and finally ended it last October. We lived together still until the end of October this year and seem to get along better when there’s no overwhelming label of “relationship” tied to us. I have expressed the need for space and no contact, but he keeps calling and showing up unannounced and it’s become really frustrating. How can I not be mean and tell him to leave me alone so I can move on because he’s not getting it.
she broke it off after a year because she wanted it to progress to marraige and i thought 1 year was too fast. she dumped me raw and hard… ran to my friends for sympathy and continually contacted me by phone and email. i just kept saying no to the contact and “offer” of “friendship”.
after 3 months… she ran a dating site ad and STILL wanted contact. when that happened… i told her to F off and she has now left me alone for a month.
i think finally, with her moving on in her own way to another man or men…. i’ve been able to start healing. it’s getting a bit better everyday as long as i try to keep her out of my head. it’s hard though because to get over it i have to think about it and her so it’s a catch22
joyfulgurrrl:
It is important to make sure that YOUR ACTIONS are matching up with YOUR WORDS. So if you are still responding to his calls, emails, and his showing up unannounced, then you are sending mixed signals to him.
But if you’ve been clear that you do NOT want contact and have IGNORED his attempts at contact, then I’d say the next step is to consider getting a restraining order.
And I know some people here (maybe you too) may think this is “too harsh” or “extreme”, but I had a friend who after 8 MONTHS of trying to keep an ex away, finally had to do this – even after having told him at his last surprise drunken visit at her doorstep that she was going to call the police. So sometimes as “harsh” or “extreme” as people may consider this, it may end up being their best option.
Good luck & many angel blessings,
SmilingAngel
Thanks, SmilingAngel. We still have contact, but minimal. He has stopped showing up unannounced and I’ve come to terms with everything that’s happened. I will say I’m doing great emotionally. :) I’m glad I stumbled upon this forum. Reading all these posts really helped me get through this.
Hi everyone,
I posted my story about a year and a half ago about breaking up with my ex. Went through the healing process and did the N.C thing for the entire time. Then the dread phone call came and I spoke with her. Her rich boyfriend dumped her and she was looking to start our relationship again. I told her ( which I shouldn’t have ) that I was willing to give it one more try. It was weird though since I never felt what I felt about her. She is the same of person that I remember vividly when we went our own ways. In anycase, I never really made an effort to “pursue” her …keeping it platonic since she said she needed time to heal. In the meanwhile, she told me not to date anyone while she is healing. Long and behold, what comes up on a dating website a few weeks later ? hahah…you can probably guess. So, when the folks on here says that getting back to the ex is probably not a good idea, they are right. I am not bitter about the whole episode since I now know clearly what I want and the boundaries that I have set. In my view, and the view of my friends and family, she does not deserve me. Took me a while to realize that fact but that’s ok. For those who are going through a rough time, it will be ok. Take your time to heal.
Do what Susan says on here… We all deserve a loving and healthy relationship. Never make that a deal breaker. – Jeff
Wow. Thanks for the update Jeff. That sounds like a rough ride but you survived. Good for you.
Jeffrey,
Your words are words of wisdom. For me, it helps reading that someone else had a relationship where the other person portrayed being a ‘good’ person but yet behind our backs they go and do things like post their profile on a dating website. I can fully relate, my ex was the biggest deciever of all, even after she was caught she still lied and denied. I see now (just like your family and friends told you) that she DID NOT deserve me. I am the original, she’s the generic. Some people don’t know when something special is before them, they stumble through life in darkness. It is you and I that are the light of the world.
Thanks for posting! You personally gave me inspiration and encouragement!
Tony,
Sorry to hear about your experiences. Unfortunately the people that we date don’t come with user manuals. We learn about them as time goes by. Sometimes that lesson can be painful as we can see from all the posts. That’s ok as illogical as that sounds. The thing of it is…if we treated them with love and respect and they don’t recognize what we bring to the table, they don’t deserve us. They really don’t. I don’t have time for drama in my life. I would rather spend time smiling or laughing with people that care for me as I do for them. Going foward, I am careful not to judge people based on my prior experience which is not fair to them. I am confident there are people out there that share the belive that a healthy relationship is one of love and compassion. Let’s open our eyes and don’t let that person slip away because we are stuck in our past.
Jeffrey you sound great and your ex sounds like a loser. The sooner you completely cut her adrift in your mind the better, you are 99% there! And the sooner you will just focus ONLY on yourself and building a great life …
Think of any time wasted focusing on her, a selfish cheater, as prolonging the process of you finding your dream relationship. She knows this in her heart of hearts (well, cough), which is why she is trying to further waste your time. Waste not … shift your focus COMPLETELY to your own healing and feeling great about yourself … and you will see that she was the only part that was holding you back from the person you really deserve to be with. I have seen it over and over with my friends … now I recognise the pattern … the faster you move the faster your real life will come to meet you …
Lola
Stumbled upon this post while poking around the blog this morning. I am so, so glad I rejected my ex’s pushy desire to be friends many months ago. I had no desire and I still have no desire. It was harder for me to break contact with his mom, who in many ways became like my second mother and the loving kind I never had, than him. There are times I still miss her occasionally and want to reach out, but of course don’t. With him, the desire to reach out is seriously less than zero.
I think being friends with an ex who mistreated you and who you loved is a bad idea, period. It’s different if you’re friends first or never were really in love or had a semi-amicable breakup, but these are exceptions to the rule. If someone you loved more than anyone treated you worse than just about anyone, ultimately, why would you possibly want a friend like that in your life?
We all deserve to be surrounded by people who love and adore and respect us. If someone exploits us in a relationship, they should lose the privilege (and yes, it is a privilege) to have us as a friend or in any capacity, too.
That’s just my 2 cents on the subject. Much better, healthier friends to be had in the world than screwy exes.
HI, I am new to this site and I find Susan’s articles and the support immensely uplifting. I am in a struggle to maintain my friendship with my ex. It looks like I shouldn’t. I am 6 months past a 3-year relationship. It was all good until I found out from a mutual friend he was going to quit his corporate job and is moving back home a few states away and has decided to go back to school and “have fun.” I think he is suffering a quarter-life crisis. He’s bought a new car. He hangs out with twenty- year olds. He gave me an “It’s not you, it’s me speech.” I actually believe that. We went our separate ways. The past 6 months, we’ve had a lot of indirect contact. It’s like he hasn’t kicked me off the pedestal. He tells me how perfect I am. He still calls me his best friend. He said he would go through hell and back to keep me as a friend. He told me he will never move on. He regrets every day leaving me. In order to not think about what he did, he buries himself in school and work. From what I see on this site, a lot of people think they want to hear those things from their ex. Then I glance at his facebook page every now and then and it almost seems to contradict everything he’s said to me. It’s left me confused. Does he really feel that way about me? I would assume after you break with someone you don’t owe that person anything. Since it’s been 6 months, we decided to see each other. I was shocked to see he still has pictures of us in his room. Mine have been down since the split. It feels like nothing has changed how we feel about each other. It made me think why are we here like this? Does this mean he really wants to be my friend, or is he waiting for something better to come along? Or is he just stuck in a life crisis? Thoughts?
Lisa
I have learned the hard way. What a person says and what they do might be two completely different things. And of the two, the “easiest” for them to do are the words.
The actions are the better barometer of their true state of mind.
Unfortunately, he has chosen that he does not want to be in a relationship with you. Why? It is not possible for anyone to know. Maybe he is scared of commitment, maybe he is waiting for Ms Right to come along, maybe he is childish, maybe he is not interested in responsibility and effort right now. It does not matter.
What matters is that you are still waiting for him to turn around and come back – and that by “being there” for him in the limited way that you are, will ensure that he will probably not do that as long as all he needs from you is that limited form of contact.
Please try and consider to at least remove that from him – he has hurt you and you deserve better.
I am so grateful for this blog! I have been single for about a month after being in a relationship for 5 years and have found so much help here and in other aspects of my life.
This blog brings me so much reassurance that I’m doing the right thing (sticking to NC) and moving on to heal myself. I no longer worry constantly about someone else and what they think or need. I am now able to focus on me.
My ex keeps trying to talk to and see me, even though he was the one that broke things off to be with someone else. This particular entry helps to keep me strong and helps me remember to keep things in perspective and to not give in to his attempts at contact.
Thank you, Susan!!
Jeff, I really liked your idea of people coming with a user manual! If only :-) I guess we just have to know our own user manual adequetely and get to trust it so that when we come across someone who seems ‘out of order’, we leave them to it, rather than try and fix them!
Spinning,
Thanks so much for hitting my head with a bat. I really needed to read that. It makes more sense to me. I am realizing he is putting me through more agony than I need to have in my life. I really need to move on. I think in his case he can’t own up to ending this. He now is the one begging for an ounce of friendship from me. I clearly see the answer out of this now.
I went NC after my ex told me he was moving in with his former mistress. He cried over the prospect of NC, realizing that he was the one who had hurt me so much that I actually needed NC to survive.
I think it has been about 1 month and a few days of NC– meaning no conversing, no texts, no emails. He has done stupid little things on myspace to let me know that I have not been forgotten. I don’t think he realizes how much that just pisses me off. He posted a blog full of vague images from our relationship. It was disguised as a poem, but he knew, of course, that I would “get it.” But really, what’s the damn point? I don’t see one.
He’s living with another girl and leaving comments on old pictures of us on msypace that say “I miss it.” HOW DARE YOU MISS IT! And I do hope he is telling his new girlfriend that he is missing me…somehow I doubt it.
I’ve been dating a girl. HA HA HA! (Yes, I’m pretty bisexual) And I think he has figured out that I just might be moving on. I’m also leaving to study in Spain for a semester in just a couple of weeks. I have this intense fear/prediction that he’s going to attempt contact before I leave…as some sort of closure for himself. Probably mostly so he can feel better about everything he did to me. All the 8 months of hell he put me through. I predict that he might buy me a stupid Christmas present, or something trivial like that…
Well, I have to be strong and not give him the chance. Why would I want to see someone who lied, cheated, and dishonored me? And why would he want to see me? He’s supposed to be content and fulfilled and getting everything he needs from his new relationship. The relationship that started before ours even ended…
What an ass. I have to be strong and not open the door and let him back in. Wish me luck.
Here’s a scenario I need some advice on. I had been dating this woman for about four months. I ended up breaking up with her because we really didn’t seem to agree on a lot, although there was definitely a bond there. The breakup was mutual because she said she would have ended it the next day because she felt it too. We did have a lot of fun together though. Well we decided that maybe we should backtrack and start over as friends and see what happens. The problem is two-fold: We live somewhat of a distance apart and wouldn’t see each other more than once a week. The second problem is that I really do have feelings for her and starting over as friends is awkward and sometimes hurts a little. We were supposed to hang out for a friends party. She lives quite a distance away so I told her that she could spend the night when the party was over. I changed my mind on this becuase I didn’t want anything to happen and Im really not ready to see her just yet. She told me that at my age I should be able to accept the friendship thing, that we were supposed to be friends with the intent of maybe building a relationship again. Am I losing my mind here? Should I continue to be friends with her in the attempt to possibly have a relationship in the future that she says may happen?
John,
She has no business telling you what you “should” be able to do. If you can’t, you can’t. It has nothing to do with age.
Stay away from her for now and leave whatever (friendship etc) to later.
Renozen,
Exactly. Why would you want to see someone like that? Stay strong!
John:
I couldn’t agree with Charlie more!
Please don’t let her shame you into believing that she should be able to have a place to stay, that you should be able to accept only a small piece of her which is not what you want OR deserve. You deserve to have someone in your life who KNOWS they want to be there on mutually beneficial terms.
Instead, I say take you valuable energy and use it to make room for people who DESERVE AND WANT all of WHO YOU ARE in their lives.
Many hugs,
SmilingAngel
Thanks for the post, it is exactly what I need now. There are too many questions in my head about our relationship right now.
My ex and I were deeply in love for 8 months until he flew to USA on holiday and met his ex there. I didn’t know what had happened between the two, I just guess that they might have slept together through some clues I found in his mailbox with her. It all happened 3 months ago when he came back from USA and told me that he had betrayed me but he didn’t want to lose me. I was totally hurt and I told him that I wanted to break up. When he received my email saying that, he ran to find me and told me that he still loved me a lot . ” But why can’t you leave her?” … for that he couldn’t answer. Then he begged me to remain friends and he wanted to protect and help me and blah blah. I was too exhausted with his game, I said yes but since then I knew I’m the only one who can help me out, because these two people cannot stop there passion even knowing that it would hurt me. Slowly I realized that he’s not worth a teardrop from me.
3 months passed by,I thought that it was all over, I could be strong again and I didn’t love him anymore . Though sometimes it still hurt, I decided that it would be best if I forgive him and let go of the past and move on with my life. But those time was hard. He has never left me alone. He phoned me all the time, cared for me a lot. Sometimes I was quite suspicious, I checked his mailbox and knew that he still had contact with the other girl and the two said I LOVE YOU almost everyday. I was hurt too much, and then I had no feelings anymore. I accepted that I lost him, that’s OK somehow I guess.
One week ago my family had a serious problem and I cried in front of him. He was so surprised, he asked me why but I told him I was fine and he didn’t need to care. We said goodbye , but the next day he was so strange.. He tried to called me all day and showed his cares. He even touched my face and my hair , then hugged me . I didn’t know what that meant. I decided that we should have a talk for his behaviours weren’t meant to be normal.
He told me that he can’t bear losing me , for I am so terrific and I am the only one he can share all things in his life with ( I thought to myself, what a selfish one he is! What about me and all the pain I have to stand?) He told me that he didn’t deserve me for I was so good and he was a bad one , and I should forget him and just stay friends ( I thought he didn’t want to take any responsibility if something bad would ever happen between us in the future) He begged me again to let him protect me. I said no, not now. Days later he still hugged me everytime we met. I must admit that I felt so good in his arms , even though I know that it’s a bad thought. ( I don’t want his new gf to be hurt like I was before). Yesterday when we were in his house, he held me very long and then kissed me on my head, silly me couldn’t control myself and kissed him on his cheek. Then I stopped, realizing what an evil thing I was doing and ran away. At night when we chatted, he told me that I couldn’t help hugging me when seeing me . I told him that if he wanted to be my friend, keep a distance.
I know that this one isn’t worth, really. I know that I shouldn’t waste my time on him anymore. But he doesn’t want to release me. And I somehow still feel good when he ran after me. I have been keeping my pride up high and never let him control my feelings since we were apart. But during the last days I just felt like I was a loser and everything suddenly went crazy.That’s too immature, I guess, but I know when we are in love we are like children.
Somehow I do wish that we can be friends again , just good friends for we both are studying abroad now and we both are lonely. His new gf is now far away and I find his new love story the most stupid one ever. I bet this girl cannot understand him as much as I do ( and he also told me that many times) . I had a feeling that he wanted to play with her , for they usually talked about sex and not much more ( when we were in love things were different, we talked about good things in life and headed to good goals together). But nothing really matters now I guess.
I’m thinking to myself if I should be friends with him or not. Having him by my side is also funny, to some extent he does make me happy as a good friend. He does help me a lot in my life and without the third one we are the best couple ever, we understood each other so well that we have never quarrelled before. I know that my love for him has faded away and what remains is just an illusion. But somehow I have a feeling that I’m playing a very dangerous game which will hurt the 3 of us for sure.
I’m just feeling so stupid and weak and disappointed about myself. I should have been stronger and left him right from the start. But I always think , I must forgive him and I should not hide from him , I must face everything and accept it. But forgive a jerk like him is nonsense, isn’t it? I think he is trying to seduce me although telling me that I should forget him.
God, we are just 20 and still too young …
I can personally attest that being friends with the ex DOES NOT work (at least for a very long time). My ex sent me an e-card today and at first I thought it was harmless until I saw all the people she forwarded it to. Along with me were 3 other ex boyfriends she’d decided she’d sent it to as well. This psycho just about pushed my go button by doing that. For her to have the audacity (or rather ignorance) to clump me into her ‘ex’ catagory and do something so classless as that just about caused me to pick the phone up (but I didn’t). So again I agree, go No Contact until you actually don’t WANT contact with the ex again. You wanna loyal friend? get a dog.
I discovered this website about a month ago. This is my first post. I can’t tell you how helpful and encouraging it has been to read the articles and posts of others. I found myself in a relationship that I had no business entering into in the first place. Now the romantic, fun, exciting part is over. He wants to be friends. I tried, but it’s not working out so well. So I read and become encouraged again. I may be crying and typing, but it does help to read these articles. “This too shall pass”, right?
Good advice here. Many articles of good solid advice. No contact. I do much better with No Contact (after the first few days it does get easier). Thanks again for the website.
On the whole issue of being friends with the ex here are my current thoughts….
I am an awesome chick
My ex is a shallow and miserable man who has a limited amount of integrity
I like having deep friendships with good people
My ex is not one of them
I have other friends in my life who serve a purpose
I do not need him as a friend as he would not add anything to me
Being friends with my ex would serve no purpose for me
At the start i was desperate to keep him in my life and be friends, i let go of that pretty quickly and am happily still there. Yes i think of him. Yes i miss him sometimes but no friendship is worth my own sense of self worth.
Simply put, i like me alot more than him.
I’ve tried to remain friends with my ex because we see each other every day at work and for long periods of time (I work full-time at a coffeehouse). I try to remain friendly and occasionally we hang out after work. It’s really difficult because I was into her so much more than she was into me. I would love to go no contact, but until I find a new job, I’m not sure that’s possible. Oh well, excuses excuses. I’m hurting really badly right now and I’m even thinking of trying to take a month off of work (I have a small amount of money saved). I don’t really know what to do, except I have to change my life.
Eve – knowing that you have to change your life is huge – don’t underestimate it! Thats powerful knowledge if you let it in and let it guide you :)
Hintofred,
“Simply put, i like me alot more than him.”
That’s awesome!! And a great reason to stay away. You’re post is both self-affirming AND correct, so I love to hear it.
I definitely struggled more with leaving my trainwreck of a relationship than I did staying friends with him afterwards. I asked myself the following questions:
Do I want to be friends with someone who inflicted more emotional pain on me than just about anyone? Do I want to be friends with someone who took advantage of me and preyed on my kind nature? Do I want to be friends with a depressed, messed up guy that won’t take care of his issues and blames me for them? Do I want to be friends with a guy who is literally going nowhere when I am heading for a great life?
The answer to all of these were an easy no, so that was that. Left him in the past where he belongs. I wish him all the best but he doesn’t deserve to have me in his life and I have no interest to have him in mine, so it all panned out just fine.
Keep up the good work ‘red!
ahh more girl problems. here is my second story. me and this girl dated on and off for about 2 years. we were friends with benefits. but our relationship gradually grew more. in her mind it was an open relationship, but i categorized her as a friend who i happened to do more with. later on she really wanted a relationship but i felt that it wasn’t the time. i broke off with my ex because i wasn’t ready to settle down, and if i got back in one i’d be goin back on what i wanted. she really made me special but i guess i was being selfish. recently we made a decision that we couldn’t keep doing this anymore. some of her friends and family didn’t approve and i felt that i was ultimately hurting her and that we would stop talking to each other after i left for my trip. so on the last day we hung out like we weren’t going to see each other again. we talked about our feelings, went to the movies, had dinner, and just hung around. i felt that i was losing a best friend cause she knows me better than anybody. we said our goodbyes then went on our ways. a couple days later my good friend of mine text me saying he and my friend i just broke up with have been talking a lot recently and he asked her out on a date. he says he didn’t wanna go behind my back so he though he’d let me know. i hated it out he mentioned to be the probablity that nothing will happen, which makes me wonder that something might happen. now i don’t know how i feel. i just broke up with a really good friend of mine, i guess u can say an ex, and i feel like my other friend is swooping in all of a sudden. i know i shouldn’t care anymore but we just broke it off. i really don’t know how to feel. so i just want some advice on what to do.
Posted this elsewhere but just came across this bit of the website and think perhaps it is more appropriate here.
Would like insights:
I am really glad I found this website. It has been very useful. I do have a question that I would love your thoughts on. I was in a long term relationship and that broke up just over a year ago – he left me for someone else. Soon it will be two years. He cheated on me. For the first 3-4 months I did not contact him but I did keep in touch with some members of his family to try to figure out what was going on. That only made me feel humiliated as I felt everyone was simply feeling pity for me.
Earlier this year we got back in touch and would exchange emails which were mostly blaming each other for the demise of the relationship. My communications were along the lines of “though I am sad, this has been for the best and you will regret one day”. I did feel that way too. I was devastated by at the same time I felt it was for the best. Anyhow, about every 6 weeks I would contact him by text just to say hello. Very rarely would he initiate contact. I genuinely felt that we could be friends as I felt it would be such a shame, after knowing each other for so long, to not be able to be friends though not bosom buddies.
Some of his responses to my texts have been a bit cheeky – I know you still want me, I have something that you want, etc. There are times he seems not to be bothered/interested. However, I do not make contact often. When I do, it is mainly when I am bored. We recently saw each other but I pretended not to.
The last few texts I sent to him has gone unanswered and I can’t quite understand why. (I must say these texts were motivated by news that he and his girlfriend were not getting on well however the texts were the usual “hi, have you read this, etc”, nothing long. I have decided not to contact him any more and sent one last text saying this to him.
My heart has healed (though not 100 per cent but not fa off) and I cannot imagine getting back with him but I do feel rejected and wonder why my attempts to be friends are being rebuffed. I don’t even know why I want to remain friends with him! Someone said that he may take me contacting him as a sign that I want to get back with him. However, I cannot understand why he would think that when nothing in my communication to him could have suggested such a thing – at least not to my knowledge. He knows that I have gone on to achieve a lot since we broke up and that I am doing really well. I have also said to him many times that I thought the break up was for the best and I thank God for it
Someone asked this on your other post about this but why would you want to be friends with him? And that he doesn’t seem to want to be friends with you.
Relationships and friendships need to be reciprocal AND respectful. Not only is he not reciprocating, but he’s goading you. Why would you want to be friends with him? He is being neither reciprocal nor respectful.
My advice is to move on.
I know, it’s all ridiculous. I guess I would like to know that he still cares somewhat.
Janice,
And then what? You find out he does or doesn’t still care and then what? Your time and energy would be better spent focusing on not what he feels (or doesn’t), but why you care so much. You don’t even want him back, so what is the feeling of rejection REALLY about? Why are you inviting this drama into your life?
Wow Kathy you are really smart. Why didn’t I know you a couple of years ago :)
This kind of advice, and asking these kinds of questions, gets you OUT of the mess into a better life. Janice, are you listening to your own angel at this point in your life? You are being invited to step up to the plate of your own fabulous life … which I think you (and me too until VERY recently) have been avoiding …
Lola
hey guys just reading like a mental case today because i cant stop crying all because the ex sent a message to me pretty much saying he was cheated on. what goes around comes around i should be happy right? i am not.
i just feel so upset i cant stop crying? i havent in a few weeks so i guess im trusting the cycle and process. why is it so hard when they break NC when we are in it? i really dont get it?????? i cant logically understand myself today. i am just going with it. i didnt reply i am fighting all urges. he didnt ask a question nor was he threatening suicide again so i dunno i just i dont htink ill heal if he keeps appearing in my life at odd times
Jen he has sent you back a long way in your process by being a selfish prick, not to mince words. He wants what he wants any old time he wants out. His New Thing has left him so his ego thinks, hey Old Thing is worth contacting, she’s really sweet so she will make me feel better. It’s not cute, it’s not sweet, it’s not kind. It’s selfish and utterly uncaring about you and what it does for you … let it go. See it for the ego-driven act that it is, and continue on your way …
Lola
i am trying i logically know that but boy am i crying my eyes out
Lola,
A couple of years ago I was avoiding, too, so you would not have thought me so smart then :) We all have this knowing within us. You’ve clearly found yours, too. Susan and my therapist helped me tap into mine. And I’m still excavating! :)
lola is correct. he is a selfish prick. apparently hes feeling sorry for HIMSELF right now and that is why he made contact. Selfish. the act is completely self centered on his part. he was looking for someone to empathize with him and he went to the person he hurt instead of allowing you to heal. selfish.
hie susan, you dont know how much this website has really helped me. just at a time when i was making my new year resolutions, one of them being NC with an “ex”. this guy caused and wrecked so much pain in my life at a time when i had fallen so hard and deep in love with him while claiming to be friends, but then we had kissed again and again and i was the vulnerable one. it went on for 2 years, i couldnt get my mind of him,we talked and spent some time together here and there but there had never been any formal communication that we are dating, but he just wouldnt commit, until i found out that he had just begun another relationship with a doctor, and yet i was just a struggling banker who was on and off the job due to contracts and all.i was devastated, having been a reserved and honest person that i was. i allowed myself to mourn, weep, scream, make prank calls, i let it all out. after a year of cutting off ties with him, i met a very handsome and loving man at a well paying bank that i had just joined, and this man was leaving to start his own company,we dated for a while and we got married,and my “ex” also got married to the woman he had moved on to.
my awkward situation is that my ex”s friend is married to my best friend, after my ex and i had hooked them up, so i always get to hear what he is up to,both good and bad through those friends, but now lve since distanced myself from them. my ex and i are proffessional sportspersons, we play the same sport which is run by the same league, so throughout the year we meet at the games. my dilemna only started when, after 2 years of no contact, he just called in to ask for my forgiveness. from then on, we began communicating, and because we claimed to be friends again, we thought it was okay. at first he did most of the contacts, until my husband saw a text my ex had sent me, but i explained, apologised and promised not to be in touch with him again.my husband also told my ex to stop contacting me. but the contacts did not stop, i also contacted him here and there,until i realised that i was beginning to noitce the same things that had made me fall in love with him more than the ones that had hurt me, and realised that i still had feelings for him .i cant stop playing sports, him and i both play for the national teams. we have since travelled together as teams, but nothing has happened. and sports r quite financiallyr ewarding, but susan, i have since gone quiet, have never picked up the phone to call him either in the past few days, which lm handling well,but how do i deal with it if we are in the same social circles. please help. i will meet him at sports,and as soon as we lock eyes, lm the the first person he runs to be with me at sports. our town is small and we bump into each other frequently. we have talked about the past, and he explained what was goin on with him when he wouldnt commint and how he felt it was just infatuation between me and him back then all.i did find closure, but i find myself thinking about him. my husband and his wife do not play sport, so its one passion him and i share and where we meet on most weekends just to talk and have fun amonst other sports people. please help
How nice for him to be back in control Sasha! Really, have a look at the situation, it’s a classic one. Now that you are safely married he STILL wants the ego boost of knowing you are still interested in him, and he is safe in the knowledge that it will probably go nowhere. But he gets the thrill of knowing it so he is baiting you. Don’t bother. You married a nice man and moved on … he is being a loser and trying to control that yet offering you nothing … complete indifference is the only reaction I would see as appropriate. Something along the lines of “you rang? you left a message? And your point would be?”. Because there is no point, only an ego boost to himself. It’s a selfish utterly self-seeking game, and he knows it but you don’t yet. Are you going to let yourself see it?
Lola
Not all people can not be friends after a divorce or breakup. You can generalize feelings and emotions. But they are all different. My ex and i were married for five years and together for about, well in any case we had some tough arguments that time. Of course some of them were caused by stresses that I allowed to overwhelm myself to the point I thought I was going to fail a husband that. My wife made a lot of sacrifices to be with me and it took very little to make her happy, and I felt I owed her soo much. However with the stresses I closed myself off because at the time I didnt know how to express. Well in this past hallf year I decided to go to councelling and everything has been great other than when I begain she decided to leave me because she had felt she gave her all and her love faded. My point is, we have been able to be friends but at times it can be hard. I am so open now to everything and taking things day by day, my ways of dealing with those stresses are much better. However she today still feels we will not be back together, and at the same time cries many times when I am there for her and do things for her, or moments when I say things to her. She gets upset if I mention I should not keep in touch. It can be confusing at times, so I just leave things open to whatever should happen. So yes, i think sometimes we are both going through what we may really want, but try to decide what we think is right at the time. Does that make sense…lol One thing I forgot to mention is just before our intiial split, I took some time away, and she began to confide in a guy at her work who still to this day she claims they are just friends. But sometimes I think he may had been a distraction from us healing what could had been fixed….not sure…it has a puzzle
I really thought my ex and I could be friends in the future. I broke the NC last night and I contacted him. Now, today I am feeling the sting of all the different emotions I am dealing with regarding my ex. He has been in my mind all morning! I feel like I have stepped two steps back again regarding the end of our relationship. Yet, I do feel that I am getting better dealing with the loss of the relationship. I want to take this year as a year to work on myself, my relationships with others, etc. Hearing his voice again and just having a conversation with him was nice, yet dealing with the all the different emotions I am dealing with today is not worth the contact with him. Rereading this article made me realize that being friends with my ex is not helping me heal. I have come to accept that right now NC is the way to go. It is too painful to put myself through all these emotions again…..
Kathleen
Oh my lord, Sasha… what are you doing? seriously..what are you doing to yourself?
You keep playing the game. he doesn’t want you, he’s just having fun with you. it’s like lola said… when are you going to see this?
and sasha, YOU’RE MARRIED!!!
sorry…my blog got sent before I was finished..
Don’t let him ruin the good thing you got going… he doesn’t deserve you sasha. and you’re fooling yourself with the whole “it’s a small town” and we are on the same team stuff…
here’s the simplicity of it all. quick the league and stop putting yourself in places you know he’ll be. it’s that easy. Trust me. I come from a small town as well and I know all the places my ex goes to but I don’t go there.
stay away from this dummy. he’s worthless and is only out for himself and his well-being, not yours. he has no respect, especially if your husband told him to take a hike and he keeps coming. it’s a game for him.
quit the league. sorry.
Hi Sasha –
I am in the same boat as Lovely L. And I also agree with LL’s advice. I also live in a small town and my ex is a political figure. He is everywhere! LITERALLY! It is indeed possible to live in a small town and avoid bumping into the ex. For my own self – if I know he is going to be around – I take a personal day. If I see him come into work – I go into my office. If he is driving by – I look the other way.
Your ex is toying with you….and I would bet a million dollars that if it ever go to the point that you were with him again – he WILL NOT commit. It is a game to him. You are married to a good guy – try to focus on that and imagine where your life would be if you went back! You broke up for a reason….and the reason (s) are still there.
Good Luck – you can do this!!
i broke NC for the first time with my ex last night since he broke up with me a month ago. He is also my classmate, so I have to put up with seeing how much he has moved on without me. He got a new haircut,new bag,etc and just seems to act as if nothing happened. But since we broke up, we stopped talking to each other. And after reading a lot of articles on this site I do realize how NC is good for us. But last night was different because yesterday we got back the results of an important paper. I did quite well, but i got to know from my friends that he didn’t. Back when we were together, he was already quite down about not doing so well in the subject than me. But back then i tried to help him as much as I could.And now when i got to know that he didn’t do so well,i knew he would be really disappointed and frustrated with himself. So after the crazy worry thoughts swam round and round viciously around my head, i finally gave in and texted him ‘how are you?’,at 11.30 p.m. Thinking back,it must’ve been a really unearthly hour to keep a friendly and casual air to it. But he never replied anyway. Maybe he was already asleep. But today as i pass him in a corridor,i sorta deliberately ignored him. It was kinda like a reflex to me because I still couldn’t handle him face-to-face. but i’m sorta sending confusing signals,aren’t I?Is it childish of me to pretend he’s not there?Any advice?
Lavender…
I think if you absolutely have to see him…just keep your distance. You don’t need to contact him, so fight your urge to do so. your text last night was a slip up. don’t do it again.
you’re not sending him mixed signals, you’re sending yourself mixed signals. stop it!
he’s not the guy for you. that’s why you’re not together. he had many chances to make it right with you and he didn’t. move on now. I know seeing him makes this process go a little slower and haywire, but you need to do it, and you can do it.
no more texting… no more contact.
if you see him in the halls, just go about your business. if he’s right in front of your face, I guess you can smile or even say hello, but that’s it. keep it minimal. your life is none of his business, just as his is none of yours.
Hi Sasha
From your post it comes across how confused you are right now. There is something about addictive relationships that do this to us, it sends our heads spinning and all sorts of chemical reactions going off – like a drug – fireworks! Its NOT real.
I agree with the posts before me, for the sake of your marriage you have to break contact with this man or you will end up losing your husband and a truly lovely guy. This is a game to your ex, the game he is playing at the moment is of winning you away from your husband, but guess what – if he wins and he will do his best to, he will still not commit to you, he will suddenly lose interest again. By then you may also have lost your husband.
Good men don’t come along so often as the ‘bad’ ones, for your own sake work on whatever issues you have to enable you to let this man go. Hang onto your hubby, he sounds like a great guy. How can you spice up your relationship with him? Perhaps some professional guidance with a therapist would help.
I wish you strength to make the right decisions.
KB
I’m 23 years old and have recently broken up with my girlfriend of three years. It was a long distance relationship at first, since I was living in Canada while she was living in the Philippines. I came back last 2007 after graduating from a scholarship in Vancouver and spent a year with her. We were very happy at first and I was satisfied just helping her cope with college and deal with some family issues. I thought it was a fair deal since she had waited for me for so long, but after a while I realized how much I had missed working for myself and chasing my own goals. I felt stifled because I, somehow, became more of a personal assistant than a boyfriend. She came to depend on me too much, and soon I felt like I was being used. So I asked her if I could return for a while to Canada and work until I had enough money to study filmmaking once more in the Philippines. She consented.
A few weeks after I left for Canada, we began to argue and exchange hurtful words. She accused me of leaving her. I accused her of turning me into a slave. I couldn’t believe that something I had worked so hard for could turn into such a horrible, soul-rending situation. I had given up a prestigious apprenticeship and so many opportunities just to be with her, and I expected understanding and patience in return. I broke up with her, reluctantly, after New Year’s. She said she didn’t want to go through the same painful process of waiting again, and that the only way we could have a meaningful relationship was if I stayed in the Philippines for good. I kind of understand her point of view since she’s four years younger than I am, and this has been the first relationship we had ever experienced.
We still love each other terribly and can’t bear to be apart. We went through so many things that “normal” couples have never experienced. But our identities are still half-formed and I’m still trying to fulfill a dream I tried to abandon in the past. She wants us to be normal, to be like her classmates who are only concerned with schoolwork and who argue about so many small things. But I can’t grant her desires, not until I reclaim some of the opportunities I’ve lost and establish my own identity.
I’m confused. Have I given up something good for a selfish reason? She’s not a bad person, she’s only young and confused, and I’ve been indulging her too much in the past because I didn’t know what to do with myself. What should I do? I want to rebuild the relationship and avoid all the mistakes we’ve made, but not now. Someday, perhaps, in the future, after we’ve both become real people. Should I stop contacting her? It’s difficult. I keep having these horrible thoughts that, if we meet after four or five years, we won’t recognize each other.
Please help. I am inexperienced in relationships and have never been a break-up before. And what we’ve shared was so unique and precious, it was almost a thermodynamic miracle in itself. I don’t want to give it up, but something tells me I need to keep my distance first. What should I do?
Lovely L, thanks for responding to my post. I have re-read what u wrote over and over again and i do understand the essence of it and am trying not to be bothered so much about it. I was fine for a few days when suddenly my best friend called out to my ex for help in class one day for some assignment and then he came over to talk to her. I was sitting right there when he walked over to our table so in the spur of the moment of not knowing what to do (we haven’t talked since he broke up with me), i just looked down and continued doing my work,pretending that I didn’t care that he’s there talking and joking to my friend. it’s probably nothing, but it’s really tearing me up from the inside. I really know i can’t stop them from talking to each other since they’re classmates as well,but i really dislike the feeling that i’m so isolated from them. Before this, my best friend and my ex didn’t know each other and I was sort of the one who introduced them. So after we broke up, it’s like i’ve lost the right to join in their conversations because i’m can’t bring myself to be friends with him and talk to him just yet but still I ache inside whenever this kind of situations arise. I know this sounds so conflicted of me, but I am really bothered by this. Should I just set myself aside and join in or should I just go on like I am,pretending that he’s not there? I know my best friend’s on my side, but just yesterday she told me he misscalled her out of the blue last night. I got really worked up and broke down in tears again after i got home.i was just fine,doing my best at grieving and was doing better before this new fear hit me. I know they won’t probably be interested in each other, but if they do begin to talk and get close, what am i going to do?I know I most probably shouldn’t care so much about it but I have to face this everyday at school. I feel so confused and helpless and depressed about this. Please help? T.T
I have a little different twist. My ex- was a married woman whom saw me for about 2 years. I am also a woman. She remains married, ran around with another woman and hurt me terrible. She went to some alcohol rehab and cut ties with me for about a year while in the rehab. I would get the on and off phone hang up or text. She called me and asked me to accept her amends and I said “NO”. It went silent for about 6 more months. Then she called me in the middle of the night and asked me to meet her for the amends. I agreed and then she cancelled it. I then told her to stop contacting me. She did and two months later I got a “Happy Thanksgiving” text. I ignored it. I then decided this would go on forever. So, I texted her I would try to be friends. I could’nt do it. She has moved away from her husband and made new friends and so on. I asked her to be honest being I told her I did not want to be friends why, she keeps contacting me. I asked her if she was dating, loves me still or what the deal is? I got no response. She does this to me all the time-Asks for contact then I agree to and the minute I ask any question of substance she shuts down and cuts the communication. What is this all about? She can answer if she is gay or straight, married or not-We have been apart for 3 years. Why, can’t she just come clean and say it how it is? Is this normal? Did she address her sexuality-She dumped me and moved far away-Why the contact to me?
HELP!
geckobellie,
You are not a victim to this woman’s inconsistent and crappy behavior, you are a volunteer. You seem to have chosen no contact (NC) with her UNLESS she contacts you. That’s not really NC. From what you’ve written here, you are choosing to respond to her when she contacts you and also to play her little game, when you could choose to ignore her instead. So the best question to help you here, in my humble opinion, is not “Why is she doing that?”, but “Why am I willing to play this dysfunctional game with her?” You can stop playing any time you want. It’s a choice. I don’t know about you, but when I learned to see things this way in regard to the crazy people in my life, I felt empowered. My life took a really positive turn when I began to see how often I was a volunteer and not a victim.
I agree and appreciate your harsh honesty. I am looking for the answer from her as to why she is doing this. I have been a victim, I beg to differ. I have ignored her changed phone numbers and then she calls my work or family. I simply want to know from her why? I have never dealt with sexuality issues or alcoholism so, I thought after the rehab she was adult enough to end it or make it work as an adult. I did choose I agree to make this last contact for closure and she won’t respond–So, what I really seeking the opinion on is…..
Why, would a full grown 56 year odl adult face the issues and move on and choose to instead make contact and then play hide and seek? Did she learn nothing in the twelve steps?
She professed to want to make amends and then when I confronted her and said go ahead-Nothing she goes deaf…
I agree that NC is the best remedy..I agree. I am asking from your opinion why would someone who has moved on continue to harm people–has she no conscious?
geckobellie:
your focus is on the wrong person: her. It needs to be on you. It doesn’t matter why she does anything. It matters what you do. Stop focusing on her. Go NC. Stay NC. Tell family and friends you don’t want to hear about her even if she contacts them.
Read about codependency and concentrate on your recovery, not hers or the lack of hers.
I think the closure redux post might help here. You can search with those words and it will come up. Search box is in top, righthand corner of this webpage.
If you don’t want contact and change your number and so forth, her ongoing contact (via family members, for example) might be considered harassment or stalking by law. But if you’ve contacted her (for “closure”), it makes it hard to argue that you are a victim of her unwanted contact.
I am so screwed up that she lied to me sexually-I feel like a pig. I believed that she was true about things when she said she loved me in front of the husband and kept contacting me-I cannot stop wondering why someone is so hurtful when, told to stop…I did read the closure blog-I agree. It’s just hard when you imply the NC and feel better and get more texts.
I could never have even cared for someone and keep harming them–it’s cruel what she has put me through. I am at the cross roads of letting it all go-but, I have this hang up to know why someone would come into one’s life and harm them
I dated this guy for 8 months. And we were friends before but not best friends. And he had a crush on me before when we were friends but i was stupid enough to not notice. Later on i started to like him and i told him that i liked him and he asked me out. He was my first love, and our relationship was perfect. We spend too much time with each other and we never got sick of each other. He was very attached to me and i got a lot of attention. Then he started medical school and everything changed. My major kept me pretty busy and he was super busy with medical school. We started arguing, and i would always get upset because he wouldnt have time for me, and he hung out with his medical school friends. I invested too much into the relationship and i did so much for him and i would expect the same from him. When i didnt get that i got really frustrated and said/did things that would regret. And i started to become insecure and jealous coz he told me he couldnt see me in the future and he couldnt see his future at all. At the end we got frustrated with each other coz we never figured out a way to work things out and our personalities are quite different. So we broke up mutually and its been a month and 2 weeks. After 2 weeks i wanted to get back with him because i thought that we invested in it too much to just let it go, and the reasons were too strong. i asked him couple of times to get back but i was just pushing him away. So i stopped and just tried to move on. But he wants to be friends and he calls me, messages me and emails me random facts. We havent seen each other since the day before we broke up. And when he talks to me, he is still protective of me and gives me advices on stuff (when i dont ask him for any). And i dont call him or message him when i miss him. I just reply to his call/messages. And i want to tell him that by being friends i wont be able to move on. (btw which he said that he has not moved on either). But i am too scared to do ANYTHING. I still think he is a the guy and i still want to get back with him. And many of my friends and family keep telling me to be friends with him and wait it out. They tell me that he needs time to think about stuff and may be he will come back to you and if he doesnt than you will find someone better. But what if he doesnt come back? I will not be able to get over him by having him around as a friend. But i am scared that if i tell him no to friendship he will get scared and go farther away from me. Please tell me what i should do?
Thanks for all your help, Susan. Your comment: “I don’t want to be friends with someone who treated me badly in the past” helped me to choose the right path.
So, in my new NC, the ex text me. It had been 3 days since I started the NC. I told him that I couldnt talk to him, text him or see him ever again. 3 days go by, TEXT. This has happened the entire time since our relationship 20 yrs ago. Well off and on for the last 20 yrs. He only wants me around when he needs something. He tells me that we will always be good friends and that we are sexually compatible. WTH does that mean???? I have spent entirely too long with this FRIEND who knows that I care about him and he uses that. That makes me so angry. How do I let him go, when he wont let me????
Denise,
I’m fairly new here, so maybe I’ve missed it somewhere. But what’s your story? If it’s not too painful, can you recount the events that made you hold on to this guy for so long or let me know where it’s posted so I can read it? Thank you.
We started dating in high school. We broke up twice but we always wanted to be near each other. We couldnt keep our hands off each other. So, after we broke up for the last time, we continued our physical relationship. I would have a bf, him a gf but we would still have sex. This continued from 16 to the time I left for the military at 19. I also got pregnant with his child during this time. I was forced to have an A. by my mother and my bf who convinced me that he was bad for me. So, I stuffed all of it down. I went into the military and was gone for years. I continued to write him occasionally but nothing was written back. He was a player by then. Thinking he could have any and treat any woman like he wanted. I met a very good man who wanted to marry me. I had not seen the ex in a couple years and it was over in my mind. Well, I married this man. We moved to Kansas when my tour was over and settled there for awhile. During my time in KS, my ex called me. He left a message on my phone like… I cant tell you how I got this number but it was really hard to get. Just wanted to talk. And he left his name. Boy that was bad. My husband had lived thru our marriage with this man in the shadows and I knew if he heard this message, OMG. So, I dont know why but I called him back. And we talked for ever. I had to come back here for a family event and he wanted to see me. Well, seeing me proved out to be the wrong thing. Because I could never tell him no. Ever. I made a mistake that cost me my marriage. When I moved back here, he has been in and out of my life. I thought I would make the ultimate thing of telling his GF at the time what he was doing. Maybe this would make him SOOO mad that he would never talk to me again. Giving me the reason to never talk to him again. But after a year and a half of not talking, he is back in my life again. His words are… We will always be good friends. We are sexually compatible… It wasnt until recently that I realized how obsessed with this man I have been. I did the NC for years. But he had always been in my heart. Now, I can say that he loved me. We had this relationship that was real. And with all the love and the pain, its been so hard to let someone go who has been a part of your soul for so long. I know the hard core rules of this. I know the reality of this. But I am so angry with myself and him for letting him use me now when its all about him. I stop talking to him, I cuss him out, I do all these things to separate us and its like a rubberband. Sorry this is so long but its a long story. 20 years worth of craziness.
wow doesnt that story sound sooo sad…
My ex and I had a couple “talks” during our relationship. I felt it was a one sided relationship, I gave, he took. He admitted that he was afraid to open up out of fear of getting hurt. He also admitted that my complaints were the same of past girlfriends.
I’m not sure why I even bothered pursuing him actually. Note to self:Must have more respect for myself. I found out my best friend at the time and him made out. This friend was having an affair on her husband with his friend and my ex knew it. Why would he make out with his friend’s girl? Desperate! I still pursued him after finding that out and I still remained friends with my best friend. But she ended up using me in her alibi so I cut ties with her. My ex didn’t stick up for me and implied I should still be friends with her! That really irritated me.
I didn’t like the way he would talk to me sometimes either. After breakfast out one morning I told him I wanted to stop at a book store. He asked ” what are going to buy, the latest diet book?” I looked at him shocked and replied simply “no”. I had about 15 pounds to lose at the time and would often talk about how much weight I gained throughout our relationship. What a jerk for saying that. He has a huge belly, kinda looks 5 months pregers. I really wanted to say ” At least I’m making an effort to better my health” but I didn’t want to sink to his level. I should have told him to piss off right then and there.
He would only make an effort when he wanted sex, when he had a show to do and wanted me there or when I seemed distant and he feared I would break up with him. He smoked pot which made him moody and depressed and also didn’t help his ‘performance’. His excuse was that it wasn’t the pot, that he was just a moody person. OK buddy! Someday he might grow up. I’m not sure why I waited so long for him to get a clue or why I thought he would. I guess I lacked self respect, but I finally realized he wasn’t going to change, that I deserved better and that I wasn’t going to be “the one” that would inspire him to be a man. I got sick of the roller coaster and broke up with him. I also matured enough to consider dating someone who could actually buy me dinner.
He hoped we could still be friends, I knew why he wanted to be friends and I wasn’t interested. Plus, after how he treated me there is no way he gets to be in my life anymore. I have found it difficult to be friends with an ex because they always want sex without strings. No thanks.
Hi, I called off my wedding last april,and in 2 months wanted her back.It was too late she was already with someone,and i was crushed.I’m a recovering alcoholic and that time i had 3 years…During that time a new comer going through a bad break up called me.We became best friends very quick,and shared a lot of time talking and sharing our pain.She in her heart knew she wasn’t going back to him but in the mean time was trying to help me get my ex back.I gave closure 3 month and on the 4th month
me and my best friend started having sex.It was great..she told me she never thought sex could feel so good.I fell for her..I was in love.Something wasn’t right though..it felt like every time i told her i loved her it felt like she felt obligated to say it back.Few times she replied she loved me more…that gave me a lot of hope.She was saying that we’re taking things slowly and our friendship had turned into something beautiful.She has a house that she’s trying to get rid of with her ex..all this time they’ve been really ugly to each other..but on the other hand one day she calls me and tells me that her ex wants her back,and what a prick he is…i asked her is she really thought that and i was scared of loosing her,and she told me that he was not a threat to us.Few weeks after she comes and tells me that she is not ready for a relationship and needs my friendship more then anything and all these months that i made her say that she loved me…i felt so dirty to hear that.First i said ok.to her friendship but having so much feelings to her i started acting very insecure and i started feeling that i was loosing my dignity.I ended up telling her that i could not be her friend to her and needed some time to work on my self..she sent me a text message saying”thanks for handling this matter peacefully
you are a great guy:) even though i was kinda pissed i said no prob.take care and she replied you too.Ok she calls me 4 days later and we talk for 4 mins.and she says well i’ll talk to you later..i was shocked..by the way she’s very intelligent person and has a very stressful job where she deals with people all the time.and 2 weeks after that she calls me on valentines day at 10 o clock i didn’t pick up and i called a friend.He told me i did the right thing…she calls me again 12:30 this time i picked up…she was sober 13 months and she sounded different.I went to her house and smelt the booze but she told me she had been taking sleeping pills.I stayed there last night we did not have sex but she was treading me like a boyfriend…next night we were there with some friends and i was still smeling alcohol…next day i call her she doesn’t pick up i go to her house and her mom and dad are dad and they were crying.she was on the floor drunk..I felt so bad for her and felt like i’ve let her down…2 of her friends came later on and when they asked her why she told them “Cause i’m still in love with the man that does not love me”I was so crushed and after they left she went in the bathroom and would not come out so i went to a bar and got drunk..i had 4 years clean time..couple days after she told me that she is not in love with him and she just has hate…as far as me she was falling for me and had to put a stop to it..also told me she loves me but not in love with me who knows maybe in a year she says…same things she told me before only this time she did tell me she was not in love with me..about a month before she decided she didn’t want a relationship i told her i was in love with her and asked her if she was too,and she looked me in the eye and said yes.Anyway when i finally heard again she wasn’t in love with me but loved me i went and got drunk…next day she was wondering how i was and i told her i was ok.and i can never be her friend again and i hope she will find happiness,and i do care for her…she texted me i’m glad you’re ok,and also take care…I’m back to my program and so is she..i saw her last night at a meeting where i picked another white chip,and it was really hard…I really was doing good as far as moving on and did not see this coming,and now i feel like i’ve lost so much!!! thank you for reading this i already feel little better…
I feel like i can’t be her friend because i cant trust her..
I am going trough a divorce, and the pain is to much to handle. I am not sure how i got here , but 3 years ago my wife of 10 years at the time left me and did many things that hurt me emotionally and financially. I took her back after a few months thinking thing were going to work out and because of our 4 kids and of course i never stopped loving her. Before she came back she admitted to me that she was still in love with her ex husband, Most of my issues with her at the time were because of her constant contact with him, she married him when she left me while we both attended college 10 years before. when i married her she did not tell me she married the guy she left me for, so this took a toll on my self esteem and trust, plus the continued contact. So 3 years ago she was also with another guy( or more) but i took her back , I tough things were all well and all , she kept asking me to buy her another ring,because she had sold the one i had given her before and also had lost the first ring i gave her, so for a while it was difficult for me to buy something that meant so much to me , then on mothers day i got her a ring that she wanted, now i am here alone with a ring that no longer means anything. I was the one who filed for divorce this time, she told me she did not want anything to do with me and just started going out with her friends. I don’t understand why she just did not tell me how she really felt about us. I have spend a lot of money in a house that i though we were both gonna grow old in. there are so many unanswered questions and now i realize that it doesn’t matter how much one wants things to work out if the other person doesn’t care. My question to you is why is she still flirting with me trying to be playful and wanting to be friends. I understand us being civil because of the kids, but i sure do not see her as someone i could trust. It is specially difficult when she goes out almost every weekend and sometimes sleeps some were else who knows with who, takes trips for days and when she comes back she acts all nice and wants to buy things for the kids and stuff. What would you do in my situation, we still live together, i an hoping i can move out soon, just waiting on legal issues. I am trying to not get close to her for any reason.
why are you still living there? get out. Friends don’t treat friends the way she treated you. Go NC except where the kids are involved and get out. No reason on earth to stick around. You’re not protecting your rights unless you want to be the one who stays in the house. Other than that there is no reason to stay. Move out.
ray1,
What a mess. I’m sorry that you are still rolling in the mud with this person, (I wouldn’t call her a lady because she’s not.)
What legal issues keep someone in a place they don’t want to be in? Are you on house arrest? Is there something that is preventing you from moving out and to welcome a little peace in your life? This person is complete drama, this guy, that guy, no wait, this guy, no wait, you, no wait, her ex, etc, ad nauseum. Are you sure she’s not a drug addict? I think it’s very wise to not get close to her and to maybe get yourself checked out for STD’s. Take care of YOU, first and foremost.
I’m sorry you were used by this person, she has no moral compass but like many people that have gone through worse and maybe not so worse, you will survive this and you will sort through why you bothered to be jerked around by anyone. You sound like a reasonable man. I would encourage you to make it your MISSION to get away from her as much as possible and as fast as possible so you can step out of the crazy swirl of drama that surrounds her. Until that happens, you’re just stuck in the dust storm of her drama.
I hope that helps and again, step away from the crazy girl.
test. checking if this works
ok it does. well anyways this is my first time ever to write online.
firstly, this is my first time to decide to do no contact. it feels liberating but at times (like now) it is hard.
so here’s my situation:
this girl ive dated for maybe a year ended it with me, i mean we had fights about the breakup and i lost my temper at times but i asked her to forgive me and everything and she says she does. i treated her well when we were togther, she says she just felt really leashed. i acknowledged this and apologized, no excuses took the blame.
i told her, since we have the same friends that i that i dont want things to be awkward. so i have been trying to see her or maybe show her im still interested and maybe pushing for a friendship, she has replied somtimes and we have even hung out maybe twice and i saw that she is allittle interested. but at the end of the day i still see that she is enjoying her space and does not want to get back with me just yet. (its been maybe 4 days)
we broke up before and after some space we got back together.
so in me im confused, whether or not she really is interestd or not or wants nothing to do with me and is just being civil. but i can still see that she cares, but i feel like she is forcing herself to move on aswell. or maybe she just wants to enjoy her friends 1st then deal with me.
my friends say that i should move on, drop it cmpletely. but u see the times we did hang out, was nice. she didnt ignore me or show she hated me. they say i should make her miss me. but for me if i do that im scared she’ll completely move on. and we were very happy togther when things were gng well. sometimes i think too with time her frustration will disappear, i really dont know.
anyways we both even agreed that we dont know about the future, and we both admitted we could still get back togther. so im even more confused. but i know for now she just wants to be alone and be master of her time.
to compromise with myself and needs i thought id hang out with her as friends and give her space and maybe she’ll just see the good sides of me again. but i realized that there are times she really is just being civil. specially in text, but when we are in person i can tell she still cares about me. and maybe thats my hope for the future.
well last night i decided i have to stick with NC, cause the waiting was not fair for myself anymore. i guess like the posts say just bury it. its my life and i have the choice to decide what happens. not her! i care about her deeply and we even had an aborted child. i know she cares it just im hurting, i miss her and it sucks that she might be moving on already (just an idea)
either way i cannot be stuck in this limbo of love
i must decide for myself.
anyways, the NC makes me feel better cause i will no longer be chasing her. in any way. i plan to disappear for awhile, get away from our mutual friends and just do what i hafta do. im even willing to fail a few subjects. i just need to think about myself. i dont want to deal with anything else right now. even if it affects my work aswell.
its hard to get rid of the hope, after hanging out with her and seeing that the future may be open. but i know now i cannot wait. i have no idea what she is doing, if she is moving on in all aspects or really just connecting with all her friends again.
but i guess i must move on. me disappearing can make her miss me again, especially after awhile and i go see my friends and she is there. see! the problem with my hope
but my reaching out has not gotten me anywhere. perhaps, even after my attempts to seem like im not desperate i still feel that iam. of course when we see hung out i felt so much better and my hope increased, she wasnt distant at all. but i know she still wants her space. ive done evrything i could think of to get her back quick. but that didnt work in the 1st time either. im willing to change, work on the issues that has made her frustrated. and she knows… i eve sent her a facebook message telling her that i understand now what she wants, and that ill be her when she needs me. or hen she can be comfortable to hang with me again. i think im showing that im too available.
is it normal for me not to do anything and just stay at home? ive been talking about it so much with her friends and some personal friends of mine. even now im still talking about it. i just want get over her the right way. what should i do about my hope with the situation – and i admit aswell, this breakup does not seem as serious as the 1st time.
need the professional advice
tim
Dear Tim, I have no professional advice to give what so ever, but I can give you the benefit of my reading and listening to solid advice, which is that if you can let go of your expectations and wants for the relationship, you’ll be available for the good things in life that are waiting until the clutter of this mess is cleared out of your energy and time.
It may be difficult to accept right now, but the best thing you can do for yourself and your esteem is to give both of you some space to heal. I know it feels like you’re going crazy at times, it’s almost like a barometric pressure that feels like it’s closing in around you and cutting off your air at times, but to make the conscious choice to let it go is incredibly liberating. IF, and that’s a font size 72, all caps IF you two are meant to be together at some point in the future, it will happen. In the meantime, live your life. Move forward. You have absolutely no control over your past, and you won’t get to the future until you get there. The only thing you have absolute control of is what is happening RIGHT NOW. Read, write, scream or smear pudding on the walls, but do not, under any circumstances… including the possiblity of “but what if I need a blood transfusion and she’s a blood type match???”… contact your ex.
The only person you can be absolutely sure that you’ll have constant contact with for the rest of your life is YOU. Be good to you. You’ve had a rough time of it as of late. You’re a smart and caring fellow, you deserve a warm, loving environment and it’s your job to provide that to yourself. Once you’re solid on being good for yourself, you’ll have ample space in your life for someone else to be invited in. You absolutely deserve better than someone who you feel is merely tolerating your existance. If she’s worth having, it’s because she respects you and is excited to see you because she recognizes what a fabulous guy you are.
Phew! I appreciate your giving me the opportunity to get that out to you… and to ME! I chickened out on the conversation I needed to have when my ex called me the other day. I was so flummoxed and unprepared (regardless of the week long internal dialog I’d had running like a marquis in my head) that I choked when he actually called. What a banana head, huh?
So, I tried to whole friends thing. Big mistake. He assumed that I would be his FB even though he has a GIRLFRIEND. That he would kill me if I told his girlfriend( yes I have done this before) that he wanted to have this type of relationship with me. I was very ticked off when he suggested it. I didnt speak to him after that but I saw him out Saturday night and I saw the real him. He was all over the girls, gf or not. I called his phone and said dont ever call me again. Dont text me again. I can not be some whore for you because you are a selfish b***d. THIS IS OVER. You cant talk me back into your bed. You cant convince me to loan you money because you need it. GOODBYE!
And so while at the bar, I drank too much. He ignored me most of the night except when I was talking to a guy I dated for a year. Coming up to him and saying hey whats up. I guess they know each other. But I found it odd that he waited until I was talking to him to come up to him. But I knew that I was worth so much more than the manwhore that every woman in the room was all over. I spent my evening conversing with someone who appreciated me and forgot all about the manwhore. I cant ever be friends with MW ex.
hey thanks for the advice. im doing alot better now the past few days. NC does help. even today i woke up didnt feel that of an urge then maybe my head played tricks on me and i looked for her online. its like even if i know its bad i still had to do it too see. but you see, my point isnt to get back together with her, so that made me feel good.
so i broke it, i chatted, or tried too she just shut me out, or had to go offline. i felt kinda like what? at first but i know she maybe she just had to go or something. whatever her reason for not talking to me i dont care.
my point is, im moving on. wanted to talk to tell her that i know we wernt meant to be together and that no hard feelings but maybe she isnt ready to talk. i dont mind.. i know im moving on and that im not bitter. i dont want to change her anymore but i want to tell her she was important to me and that i get her side. i dont know. the process is a cycle, you go back and forth.
my thing is now i know its over and that i can get over her i just dont want her to be bitter too maybe. well, im gonna keep doing what im doing… i know i cant change her and change her choices in life. i deserve someone better. but at the same time, i wish we were at the same page.. page of just doing what we both want but maybe talking every now and then. guess ill just buy my time. all ex’s have those talks in the end, maybe its just too soon for her or she just never wants sanything to do with me again. that would suck. but if thats the case then i hafat learn to accept that too..
thank you for the advice
tim
I got up the chutzpah to send the letter I needed to send to end it once and for all. I wanted to do it in person (we live too far away to be face to face), but the sweet little darlin’ didn’t answer the phone, so I sent it in an email. It was time. Beyond time. My self respect was demanding that I do it and stop pretending.
I also had to get to the point where I could totally let it go. I don’t need to hear if he got the email, what he thinks of it, does he have any regrets?… all that mess that just keeps my mind mired up in “what ifs”. Neurosis causing agents of doom, I say.
Good job on the continued NC. There’s a quote out there, which I think I saw once on here… “What you think of me is none of my business”. So when you find yourself wondering if she’s thinking about you, good or bad, just remind yourself that it’s none of your business. Take a good cleansing breath and keep moving forward, friend.
L
I am having difficulties maintaining a friendship with my ex…we broke up a year ago…she wants to be friends with me and has played with my mind including sleeping with me and all of sorts…and the next minute she is dating someone else.
I was upset about it at first and i feel now numb about it…i do want more than that but she refuses to. She says that it is easy for her whilst it is hard for me. I am hardly in contact with her after found out shes dating someone else. we used to text every day.
i would love to be friends with her and feel happy about this and dont want her out of my life even thou she does treat me like a dog most of the time and dont appreciate me. My head says that…but unfortunately cant say the same for my heart. As she was my first love.
Confused.com
Any advice?
Heather,
maintaining a friendship with an ex is not really what is recommended on this blog. So if you say “i would love to be friends with her and feel happy about this and dont want her out of my life” then I’m afraid you will not find the answer to your questions here. If you read the post about “being friends with the ex”, you will see why.
Greenroses, I agree with you on this..I thought that I could be friends with the ex too but it’s just not an option if you want to heal and get past it..
It has taken me a whole year of turmoil with the break up of a 12 LTR with my exbf to get me to move on. I don’t like turmoil and I’m not going to waste anymore of my time on trying to be friends. It just ain’t gonna work for me.
I think it definitely depends on how the two people feel about each other. I lived with a man for three years and we loved each other, but we were always better friends than lovers. When we decided to split up, we kept our distance from each other for two months and then he moved to another state. We kept in contact and to this day, he is one of my best friends. We have both had other relationships since then and we have helped each other through rough times and everything has been fine, because we love each other as friends and neither of us is _in_ love romantically with the other. That’s the key. If one person is hurt or still in love with the other, then a friendship is not possible until those feelings are gone.
I believe this because I am currently going through a situation where I am struggling with trying to maintain a friendship with my most recent ex. That is why I am on here. When I met this man, I fell head over heels in love with him and I am still completely in love with him. We got very close very quickly and our feelings for each other always were and still are so intense that neither of us can think straight when we are around each other. We were best friends for about a year before we officially got together and once we did get together he became very distant and we suddenly couldn’t talk like we did before. I didn’t know what was wrong and I had the feeling that he was going to break up with me. I was terrified because I had never loved someone as much as I love him. I freaked out and got really clingy and that just made the situation worse until he eventually did break up with me. My heart is still completely broken and I don’t know how to pull the pieces back together. He still calls me his “best friend” and tells me he loves me. He says he is just not ready to be in a relationship right now because he needs to focus on himself. I agree that we both need to focus on ourselves because our relationship was not healthy. We both have issues that we need to work on. My problem is that I am still completely in love with him and I miss him and he “only loves me as his best friend”. We spent a few months hardly talking to each other after he broke up with me, but we still occasionally contacted each other and tried to hang out as friends. Every time we did, I felt wonderful while I was with him, but horrible afterward, because he didn’t want to be with me anymore. Now we are working on a project together (not by our choice), so we have to see each other everyday. We had a conversation about our friendship a few weeks ago in which he said he didn’t know if we could even be friends any more because it is just so hard on us and it’s hurting us. I finally got to where I started letting him go and focusing on myself and what was good for me. Then things started getting good between us again and we started feeling excited to see each other. We went to a play together last weekend and then watched a movie at my house. It was wonderful to be with him again and we got carried away with each other and ended up sleeping together again. In his sleep, he was holding on to me and he said my name a few times and “I love you”…which he also said when he was awake. The next morning, I woke up extremely happy and then we had a conversation in which he said it was a mistake and he only loves me as his best friend. I am heartbroken again and I don’t know what to do. I just don’t understand.
Marie, the first thing you do is get the hell out of that situation, that’s the worst one to be in! I have been there and it NEVER is worth waiting round to see if they somehow change their mind, realise their mistake, grow a new brain, get some taste, get over their ex, whatever … never … not once … hurts more each time you do it.
Put as much space between you as you possibly can, you have to work together you are just civil and nothing more. He wonders why it’s his problem, let him wonder. You owe him nothing for this behaviour. Thinking you have to not only face rejection but ALSO somehow nurse his feelings through this is a classic female reaction and a huge mistake. Take care of yourself and remove the victim in this situation. You’re going to hurt for a while over this, get comfortable and start writing! And do things that make you feel cosy and secure, get totally lost in doing the things you love. I know this situation and I am giving you the advice I wish I had, it can get incredibly self-destructive even if neither person wanted it to. Don’t go there girl.
TAngoLola
Marie, I hope Susan weighs in on this quickly, but I agree with TAngoLola….get out! GET OUT! GET OUT! GET OUT!
Many wise words have been posted on these blogs. I copied one quote and I apologize for not copying the name, too, so this is not from me but has been very helpful:
‘The person who walked out of your life probably did so for selfish reasons, and if they DO come back, it’ll probably be for selfish reasons. Do you really want someone like that in your life?’
Take it from an old woman — they all ‘love you’ and are your ‘best friend’ when it suits THEIR purpose. As soon as someone new comes along, she will be his new best friend. You will need to start from ground zero in your grief and won’t it be fun discussing a new relationship with your ‘best friend’? Hearing about your ‘best friend’s’ dates and adventures and stays in cozy B and Bs?
Are you that much into self punishment?
I say all this from experience, having been dumped by my ‘best friend’ of 20 years, who still emails me and calls me although I don’t respond. I have no desire to find out what he is doing without me, who he is dating or not, etc, and he lost the right to know what I am doing and who I am dating (which I am) when he dumped me.
Stop being a convenience for him. He is doing okay. He is not suffering. You are.
After 7 years of playing the yo-yo with my ‘newly turned ex’ I have come to the conclusion that enough is enough for both of us. the difficulty has always been that he has known my daughter since she was born and to her is a father. A year ago I ended the relationship and didn’t have any contact for 8 months – and then I found out through others he was in a bad way and wanted to start some healing work. We started to meet just to walk be gentle etc……… and then after some months I introduced him back into my daughters life. She had been devestated by him never contacting her, and blamed me and herself. I worked really hard with her about letting go and healing and that we are what we are with all our limitations etc so it took alot for me to get back into a relationship – except it never took off! It came to the same place and complete breakdown in communication and my ex just saying same as ever “I don’t know what I want” etc so I said this is my deal too, so i’ll look at my fear of commitment too….. except he doesn’t want to go there at all. In the end all I could do is accept his limitations, and get through the anger, hurt, grief, fear, pain etc However, he picks my little girl up from school once a week, and she loves this, and on the weekend will do stuff. However, I don’t now want to be part of this because it keeps me feeling like its not over. every sunday once he arrives it feels like so painful I can’t bear it. By the evening and when my daughter is in bed I am right back at the beginning again!!! My fear is that if I don’t ‘join in’ he will just fall away. He doesn’t contact her between tuesday and the weekend, saying it doesn’t enter his head!!! I can’t bear her pain of loss. Mine ain’t great, but I will get through it. What to do for the best? I keep saying to myself be friends, but it is too painful now and keeps me wondering, hopeful, furious all those things. Help, I want to get through this, work on my difficulty with commitment so I can have a mature relationship one day
I participated in my ex’s daughter life for 12 years and then when he dumped me everyone treated me as if I was an outcast…I didn’t contact my ex’s daughter because I didn’t know how to handle it and I was sure she didn’t either…I still don’t know if it was the best thing or not. Never will I suppose.
….there in lies the difference. How horrible to be treated like an outcast, and then incredibly hard to make contact – and you acknowledge that. I know my ex could just slide away and not make any contact, and I have said that their relationship is just that, and not my responsibility to maintain from his side. ps you could still contact her if you wanted to check out how she thinks about it all now. best wishes shesmovedon
Thanks Chaucer, my ex’s daughter has too many other emotional problems with her own mother and her father AND a step father…I just don’t want to add to her problems. She is a teenager and I just want her to be happy and be free or try to be free of the emotional baggage by the 4 adults that she grew up with…make sense?
Hi, i think u r an expert in all this. Well me n my ex were best frens 7yrs ago, then after 5years we started going out, then going to get married this year. i came to knw that another woman is in his life. he always said she was his fren etc. last year in august i started to doubt, then i confirmed it. i told his parents may things could work out. well we had lots of problems. i kept 4giving as i loved him so much. he even said he will start a new life with me. but then after a week he said the other lady in his life. i cnt believe he played with my feelings like this. am not able to 4get him inspite of all this. help me please. i was thinking to ask him remains fren with me n he kept avoiding me. now after reading ur article, it really encourage me a lot. hope i will b able to move 4ward. thanks.
Great article!
It’s like reading about my situation. My ex (who brutally dumped me) keep contacting me and wanting to be friends. I’ve been saying “don’t know, maybe, later” for a while. The truth is that I don’t want to, he treated me bad and I don’t want that kind of person as a friend. I accused him of having selfish motives, and he said that I was mistaken. But now I really see that I am right and he is wrong – and selfish as usual! I know that he misses me, we had a great relationship.. the only thing that was wrong with it was that he is an asshole that can’t stay in a relationship, and found out after a couple of months that it was about time to date someone new. He is still dating her, that’s the worst part. He just wants it both ways, and I don’t think that would be any fun for me OR for her.
I’ve been wondering if declining his “peace offerings” is just childish and stupid, especially since we share some friends and I am actively trying to avoid going to the same parties etc as him. But this article has reassured me that I can just say NO and move on without thinking twice about it. If he misses me, wants to say he’s sorry and be forgiven or whatever, it’s not my goddamn problem. Buh bye.
That being said, I am friends with all my other exes, some of them are really close too. But most of them have been short and sweet relationships that ended “clean” and we have waited a while after the breakup until it just felt kinda natural to be friends.
Lena I really hope you maintain a distance from this guy, anyone who breaks up in a nasty way is SO not worth maintaining a relationship with. Even if they try to justify it with ‘but we get on so well’ or whatever, deep down you are telling yourself that it’s JUST FINE to be treated so badly, that these people can still stay in your life – and they can’t. The relief you feel (well I do anyway!) from just deciding that the only people who can be in your circle are people who always love and respect you – is huge. And not explaining any of this to them is also a big relief – because the kind of people like the ex you describe will never get this. They can only grasp their OWN wants and not any reasons why this just won’t work for the other person. Don’t bother. Save your energy for a relationship that’s more rewarding … or a yoga class … a massage … a facial … the list goes on really …
TAngoLola
Thanks for the support:)
I’ve been thinking a lot about how I’m going to explain to him that I don’t want to be friends, preparing long speeches in my mind until it’s driving me insane, but you’re absolutely right – I don’t have to explain. I don’t owe him an explanation, and if he doesn’t understand it now anyway he never will.
I agree with you, I keep friends that care and respect me. He has shown that he is the kind of person that can turn his back on a close one in a second if that suits him. I have forgiven him, but I haven’t forgotten. He has shown his true self, and that is a person I don’t need in my life in any way.
I am actually not good with endings and always say “never say never”. But this time I have mourned the end of our relationship like something died, overcome the longing and finally accepted that we will never be close again. He needs to do the same.
And I need to stop feeling guilty or bad for rejecting his offers of friendship, it is not my fault that it has come to this!
I hope he will learn that his selfish choices can have severe consequences, like losing someone forever.
My grief and guilt from my long distance relationship of 3 years is almost too much to bear, and I keep answering the phone when she calls because I feel as though I need to be there for her.
I’m in the US, and my ex lived in Canada. We had talked for 7 months before finally meeting, and decided to commit shortly after we had met. A month in an ex of mine that lives here wrote to me on Myspace saying she loved me and wanted me back. I had a long history with her, and never really had closure, so I had written her back everything I had felt during that time and in all honesty was confused. In short, I had told her that we could never be together, and that I didn’t know what was going to happen in my new relationship, if it would work, but I wanted to find out. I told her that a part of me would always love her and said goodbye.
As my new relationship grew with my long distance partner, I had forgotten about the letters and fell inlove. I had taken a trip for a week, and on that trip had no cell service, so being worred my ex went into my myspace to see if I had communicated with anyone. She went back through my emails and found the letters. It broke her heart. After that she became somewhat mentally abusive, and I took it because I felt as though I derserved it for not telling her about the letters in the first place. I had never cheated on her, however, barely even looked at anyone else through the relationship.
We ended things this past december. Coming for a visit in january, we decided to work on things and start over. We had talked of marriage. In feb she came for another visit, where I had discovered she began a new relationship a couple of days before coming to see me. Since she has wanted to remain best friends. I can’t stop thinking about the loss. I’m going crazy with “what ifs” and “I should haves”. A few days ago I had thoughts of hurting myself because of what I did to her. I keep up communication because I feel as though the nicer I am, the more I’m there for her, it would alleviate the pain she felt 2 years ago.
I’m going a bit mad and am asking for help. How do you get over the loss of what seemed to be the perfect girl for you when you’re the one that took it for granted and ruined it all by contacting a previous ex? Thanks for any guidance…anything.
Because it doesn’t matter what it was or what it could have been. It only matters what it is. And it’s a mess. You should cut ties because this is not going to work out. What you did was not that big a deal in a young relationship. You stopped being confused and made a decision and a commitment. Your gf went through your accounts (what the hell is THAT?) looking for a lot more than where you were. She THEN used it as excuse to abuse you. If she was so hurt she could have left. Instead she decided to torture you. She doesn’t sound like the perfect girl to me. My suggestion is to move on and forget the whole thing especially your guilt.
randy, thank you. I feel like I’ve been making excuses for her for a long time. Everything I did, it was never right and I gotta break out of this mentality that I f-ed it all up. She used it against me everytime we had a fight. Thanks for your comment, it really helped
so how do you explain a guy, after amicably ending things because he fell out of love, says after few months that he misses you, but it’s his fault, and his sorry and that we stay friends? it’s the first time i’ve met this kind of ‘confused’ men and it drove me really insane. i’ve met a lot of men before, but never the type who are confused and undecided. is it my problem that i attract this kind of men lately?
I can’t but can sympathize. I have been married 21 years have 4 kids. and worked until my last child was born and My husband went away at army base for the last 6 years. He finally came home a year and half ago but he had changed. things got very bumpy about 8 months ago and he has told me he “doesnt love the person I became while he was gone, He has no love in his heart for me and I am not worth the effort to be with in bed.
….. but since the kids are here I can stay and we will work on being friends. ”
At this point I am the servant, the nanny, the bookeeper, pay the bills, cook, homeschool the kids etc. but there is no friendship
He now trys to tell the kids an me that he loves me but I don’t know who he thinks he is fooling because there is no
affection whatsoever for me left not even as a friend.
I have been home with the kids while he was gone for the last 7 years and have to find both a job, and place to live
with the kids.
I am grateful to have found this site this weekend as I have been feeling somehow it was my fault as, I should have done something different. This weekend he chose to take the kids and leave me home alone with no vehicle for easter so he could see his sister. I think it hit me at that moment “DONE”
This will be a most difficult journey in the next months with kids 16,14,11,7 and no job at the moment.
I re-read this post often to reinforce this concept. I agree, now, totaly, that you have to seperate, as in “no contact”. I’ve spent the last 2+ years not fully in and not fully out of a 23 year relationship. I thought it ‘worked’ for us. My will-be-ex has a new friend since March and that has forced me to work through all that should have happened almost 3 years ago. The grief, the thinking we could still ‘talk’, the realization of what it really means when a relationship is over, etc. I had no idea until I found this site what was happening to me. I thought I was fine; when in reality I was stuck. I hold to what I know to be true: I would not go back, the only way out is through, I will make it and be better than ever. Staying in contact with the ex just slows the process. Strength to all who are on this journey!
I know of one couple who remained friends and spoke each week and after 2 years were back together and now engaged. But that is 1 couple. She was ok letting the man she loved go and staying friends.
There is always the exception but we tend to fall on our face when we pattern ourselves after statistical anomalies.
I gave a friend of mine, in an abusive relationship, a copy of Men Who Hate Women and The Women Who Love Them and the one thing she hung onto after reading hundreds of horror stories was the one guy who changed.
Being friends is usually a bad idea. But if that’s what you want to do, do it. If you want to point to the outlier couple who weathered the storm, do that and remain stuck in what could be false hope. But if you want to heal your heart and recover you will go NC and forget about being friends. Again, your choice.
Interesting article as I’m currently going through the torturous process of ’staying friends’.
My girlfriend, or ex-girlfriend was a bit of a messed up, self-hating, totally insecure person who seemed obsessed with the idea of going out with me. Everything told me to stay away but eventually I didn’t and we tried for a relationship.
Unfortunately it wasn’t easy going out with someone with so many insecurities who needed constant attention and reassurance. Her jealously, lack of maturity at times and non-interest in anything I liked made it difficult to commit. And she wanted a house, kids etc after just a couple of months!
I tried to break away but couldn’t as she was in bits, but found myself becoming closer to her. Although I couldn’t make the big commitments she wanted, I always spent ages trying to convince her how much I wanted her. As time went by, we got closer and closer, her dreams started to become my dreams, we were near to moving in together and celebrating our first anniversary and then bang – she doesn’t want to know.
Overnight the loving girl with a heart of gold turned cold, deceptive and resentful. Dumped by text, ignored when we met up, and then for the next week getting my hopes up, then crushing them cruelly, I couldn’t believe what had become of my gf. She could say some nasty things about our relationship, especially the first few months where she was doing the chasing; it was as if the last months meant nothing.
Stupidly I’ve tried to remain friends, partly because I miss her lots and hate the thought of being alone again, and partly because I genuinely care and worry about her. Before me see was in a right mess yet when we were going out everyone commented how happier she was and more confident. Towards the end of the relationship and now it’s over, I see her reverting back to her old ways and although she hides it from others, I get to see it when we talk. It scares me but makes me want to hold on and be there for her so she can be happy. It’s this reason why I keep telling her how I’ll be there if she needs me, if she needs to talk. Because she is so insecure I perhaps say it too much – now she thinks I’m being the needy, attention seeking one and I’m being too much. It’s like the relationship went 180 and it’s me wanting the friendship and she sees me as someone she just feels sorry for.
We’re meeting up tomorrow but I think it needs to be the last time. I really thought we could have a laugh but the scars of our relationship are still not healed and it’s hard. I still feel closure – a happy, mutual ending is what most relationships need, yet she has denied it to me so many times. That’s what keeps me going, that I’m sure it’ll end in a hug and a few months down the line I’ll be able to pop over for a drink without the guilt or ‘what ifs’ springing to mind. But then again, maybe I delude myself.
At 57, if I could be friends with my ex I would be with my ex. To me friends enjoy being with each other, respect each other, are interested in each other, care about each other; all missing from our relationship. What I hope for in the future is a healthy neutrality, where we can deal with what has to be dealt with. Friends? I don’t think so!
What about ex’s who have stayed friends and ended up back together?
I think it’s rare isn’t it? I can’t think of anyone I know that’s done it.
I’m not sure if you keep being friends with the ex it gives you enough distance to really see the other person, and spend time on yourself.
Especially if they did the leaving, as if you stay friends you’re at their beck and call to a certain extent. If they realise that they did want you back I think they can do that without being friends.
I can see, the more I look at myself, the more I have to fix. I can see that I have codependent traits and how that affected my relationship with my ex. While I want another chance for us, I see I have a lot of work to do on myself. We both care about each other. I am starting to see that friends might be the best option. He is someone I value. I know our relationship wasn’t all my fault, but I do see I have a lot of internal work to do.
I wish I listened to this site. Since posting my last thing, my ex has gone full psycho, telling everyone I’ve been messing her around and deliberately engineering things to make me look bad – and I kept falling for it. Her family and friends now hate me. Thing is she actually now believes what she is saying. How messed up is that.
Two things here for people to learn:
One – never get involved with someone you know is messed up.
Two – never try and remain friends with them after breaking up even when they continuously mess you around. They’ll come up with ways to break you too.
I think I might need counseling after all this whilst she might need locking up!
Thank you for all this great advice!! After a 4.5 year relationship I finally walked out of being mistreated on March 15th, 2009. We moved from NYC to California and then back. We were living together and the mistreatment just got worse. I finally decided I couldn’t do this ANYMORE and told him enough. I’ve told him this before and so I think he thught I was going to come back. This time I didn’t. I caved over the last 2 months a few times and saw him – each time relaxing all night and then engaging in sexual acts. Each time I thought “well…maybe this could work”. The last time I saw him was April 26th. On May 1st I found out he was bringing a new girl to a party we were both supposed to attend. I couldn’t believe and still can’t believe he has moved on so quickly. I mean we started planning our marriage and such in March before I left!
He started texting me last Fri (May 8th) and I woudln’t respond. He called me rude and said “what is this you are never going to talk or speak with me again!?”…I didn’t respond. he texted me for Mother’s day (Im not even a mom but we had a miscarriage together). No reply. Finally I caved after he texted me this past wednesday about a phone bill I needed to pay on and asked me how I was. The texts wouldnt stop all day. I played into his game too. He asked if I missed him sexually and so forth. He asked if we could be friends and told me he likes the new girl he is seeing and said I woudl find lots of flaws with her. WHY?
So, that night I composed an email that told him to leave me a lone and give me space. He wasn’t respecting that earlier. I told him I needed to work on me and become self-actualized and having him as an attachment was not helping anyone. I quoted the following from ayn rand’s “Atlas Shrugged”:
“Do you remember that you called me a trader once? …My way of trading is to know that the joy you give me is paid for by the joy you get from me–not by your suffering or mine. I don’t accept sacrifices and I don’t make them. If you asked me for more than you meant to me, I would refuse… If ever the pleasure of one has to bought by the pain of the other, there better be no trade at all. A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud. You don’t do it in business… Don’t do it with your own life.”
I wrote that I was not looking for a reaction.
He has not responded and that was 3 days ago. Good.
I find its much harder to choose logic over emotion but it has to be done. I’d like to say “he’s not OVER me” since we only broke up nearly 2 months ago after 4.5 years. But regardless, who cares, I need to work on me and I deserve the best. We CANNOT be friends right now, if ever, even though I care deeply I know it’s not right.
Thanks for the support!
-Alanna
My ex started dating 2-3 months after the end of our 10 year relationship and 5 months after the end tells me he’s not very happy. Why tell me that? Why tell me sometimes you miss me and it hurts? Talk is cheap. Actions speak louder. You left. You don’t love me. You wanted to live life without me, so do it. Let me move on.
Because he’s an emotional child? An insecure, selfish brat? A self-indulgent hurtful person? I could go on Lisalisa …
He’s telling you because he’s betting on the kind of sympathy and kindness you showed him in the relationship, hoping that DESPITE the tiny detail that he left and had other relationships, somehow now that he’s free you will just STILL BE AN OPTION JUST IN CASE when he’s between women. But the person you are now won’t accept that … will they. He broke up and he wants you SYMPATHY about how life’s a bit of a bitch for him sometimes? Really? This falls into the Too Bad, So Sad variety of responses in my book. Not even worth an argument or even a discussion – a few blinks and walk away. You are worth more. And you will get more – if you hold out for it. A grown-up one.
TangoLola
It’s been my experience of late that being friends with an ex just intensifies my feelings for him. I’ve had a very confusing two year relationship with a man that at first I assumed was simply going through some kind of life transition and wasn’t ready for a commitment. I was patient. I was in transition also. I was post-divorce, getting ready to move to a new city.
I hung in there with him because I could identify with his life situation. He too was going through a lot of change. He was getting ready to leave a ten year life on the west coast for a new one in the south. I wasn’t in a hurry for a long-term commitment, I just enjoyed discovering him gradually, or at least that is what I told myself. But eventually I realized I wanted the whole thing with him. Marriage, family, a life together. I told him this after a year and half, he said he didn’t want that with me. He said that he didn’t “feel it.” So the romantic relationship never solidified.
He moved southeast and I moved northwest. He now lives 2500 miles away. In the last two years he’s really only dated me. And so far he still is not dating anyone. He says that he needs time alone to work on himself. And I can appreciate that. I took that kind of time after my divorce.
I have not seen him for ten months now, but I have been unable to let go of the idea that we could be together. As I see it now, he’s been stringing me along. Though he said he didn’t feel it, he’s worked to maintain a close emotional relationship with me. His mixed messages gave me hope. I assume he did this to fill the void until he finds someone new. Initially I didn’t see it like that. I was willing to give him some space and let him establishment himself in his new life. It hurt a lot when he left without me, but I was so in love. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and we were never out of contact for more than two weeks.
He would call to ask how I am doing or to share something that had happened to him. He sent me music. He asked me to knit him socks. We watched movies together on the Internet ~ our “movie nights.” Then we began to do projects together. Writing and websites. He offered to help me with developing my business. Then he suggested other things we could do together that required even greater investments of time. It was not unusual to spend 5 or 6 hours at a time on the net via Skype three times a week working through ideas, writing copy, looking at photos, or just hanging out and sharing with each other as we always had. Basically we spoke or messaged each other everyday.
The wounds from his previous rejection of me have not healed and I’ve been clear with him about how I feel and what I want. But he bristles at my mentioning my feelings for him, as if I am pressuring him. At least that is how I took it at first. But love is blind. And I am deeply in love with this man. And just plain stupid.
The consequence of our long distance time together is that our “friendship” has developed a wider range then before. I keep discovering these wonderful things about “us” together. And my feelings cannot be contained or hidden. I asked that we see each other again and he said that he needed to focus on work, but that a future holiday together was possible. I told him how much I missed him and loved him, but he didn’t respond in kind.
Over the recent holiday weekend I made a video for him. My extended family spend a day at a local lake and I wanted to share the experience with him. After receiving it, he told me that all of my “I love you stuff” was making him feel alone and isolated because he could not reciprocate. He said that we could have friendship or we could have nothing and that he chose friendship and asked me what my choice would be.
I tried months ago to break off our “friendship” telling him that it was too painful for me. He was very angry with me for attempting it. As time went on I though perhaps I had misread him and that maybe he really did want something with me and I just needed to give it a bit more time. Then lately as things between us deepened and intensified, I became very confident in my belief that he loved me and we would find our way to each other. Our time together brings me joy and it makes me feel loved. He must get something out of it also.
God, what stupidity and wishful thinking on my part! I am so confused and hurt. Why would a man invest that kind of time with someone he doesn’t love romantically or want to be with? I mean even to quell one’s loneliness, doesn’t it seem like a lot of time and commitment and responsibility? I made the painful decision to stop all contact with him. It is impossible to comprehend that he will not be in my life. In my case, I could not help harboring deeper desires for more. It makes me wonder what his motivations truly were. How can I feel so loved and cared for by someone who does not love me back? I wish I could understand. I must be crazy, it is my only explanation.
Seems you were constantly offering him something he didn’t want. Sure he wanted attention and friendship, but he didn’t want more.
It’s always easier for others to see it for what it is and tell you to let go. It is only you who can do that.
Get busy on you and be unavailable to him more.
If he decides he does want a relationship with you, he will come to you. If you are still ready to take back the wishy-washy non-commitment of it all at that time, go for it.
But truly look into yourself – are you truly happy with the time he gives you now? Sounds like you are not because you are always telling him you want more. You want more, he doesn’t.
You already know the answer. I know it’s hard, believe me.
Lisalisa,
Thank you for your words. It is true that as he draws me in, the bittersweet of it all begins to be what I feel the most. I think of all of those moments in which I searched for “that look” in his eyes, but never found it.
The longer I live the more it seems there is little rhyme or reason to life. I’ve was deeply loved by a man who could not lift a finger in my deepest moments of need, but who remained loyal in his own way for more than 20 years. I’ve been ardently pursued and elegantly, exquisitely seduced by magical, profoundly gifted men who in the morning could not remember my name. I’ve had men who emphatically insisted that they did not love me, yet literally gave me their last dime, their last ounce of energy to help me or make me happy. And some of the cruelest people I’ve ever known have done me the greatest life alternating kindnesses.
At some point, the struggle must give way to surrender. Acceptance. So I sit with the helpless pain of loving my soul mate and dear friend, hoping that if there is an eternity maybe attraction won’t matter there as much as our ineffable affinity of spirit. Perhaps then we can explore the universe together for a time.
Life is definitely bigger than me and clearly I cannot out think it or out smart it or out maneuver it. So I sit here, honoring it the best way that I can, by keeping my heart open despite the pain of it. Even as I need to say goodbye to him, I will always love because I must.
Peace to all our suffering souls.
Dixie
I too romanticized our relationship, but take a close look at the reality of it before you give him more credit than he is due. Yes, all relationships teach us something, but often we are too caught up in wanting a relationship too see it for what it really is.
i think a very important question to ask is how a previous relationship would be affect, if you still have a friendship with that ex.
ooops i meant to say….
i think a very important question to ask is how would a FUTURE relationship be affected, if you still have a friendship with that ex
I was in a relationship for 2 years. She got pregnant by me and we decided on an abortion (she was separated at the time and didn’t want her husband to know). The relationship went on for another 8 months after that and we called it off as I was relocating and she didn’t want to go with me. We have remained friends for 5 years now. I can’t get over her. She has since divorced but will not move and I don’t want to move either. We live 650 miles apart. Everytime I think about deleting her and getting rid of her phone number I can’t. I’m not sure if I still love her deep inside but I feel I can’t lose her. Maybe because we could have had a baby together but I just can’t do it. She’s had several boyfriends since me but I’ve remained single. Whenever I think about her I get that warm fuzzy feeling which takes me back to the good times. I haven’t asked for more than friends because I don’t want to move. I just don’t want to let her go. Am I being silly? Why can’t I let her go? I’m 43 and been with over 100 women but can’t let this one go.
My ex broke up with me a month ago, I have not been happy, it is not what I wanted. He has been going out and doing things and hanging out with girls 5-10 years younger than him! It hurts to much to hear and finally I had to much, on Tuesday I told him to not contact me, that we cannot be friends because thats what he wants. Yesterday he continues to call and text message me and last night I had to call him and spell it out for him, that we cannot be friends because thats not what I want! I do feel some relief with knowing that he will not call and write and I will not have to hear the upsetting things that he says. He told me that when I first told him to stop he “didn’t think I was serious” in some way i feel thats how he has thought of me all along in this relationship.
My ex broke up with me a month ago, I have not been happy, it is not what I wanted. He has been going out and doing things and hanging out with girls 5-10 years younger than him! It hurts to much to hear and finally I had to much, on Tuesday I told him to not contact me, that we cannot be friends because thats what he wants. Yesterday he continues to call and text message me and last night I had to call him and spell it out for him, that we cannot be friends because thats not what I want! I do feel some relief with knowing that he will not call and write and I will not have to hear the upsetting things that he says. He told me that when I first told him to stop he “didn’t think I was serious” in some way i feel thats how he has thought of me all along in this relationship.
I just got dumped about thirty minutes ago. This has happened several times since being separated two years ago. The first time, I would not leave it alone. I tried to keep in contact with the ex. This time, the ex wants to be friends – doesn’t want me out of her life she says. After a few go rounds, I now know it is best to terminate all contact immediately after the break up. It hurts less and healing happens faster that way. No anger here, just a little more wisdom than before. Besides, it’s really easy to find another woman who will blow sunshine up my ass about how great I am, until . . .
I was best friends with a woman for 5 years, we were extremely close, it was almost like having a relationship without a sexual side, anyways. She told me she had feelings for me and had been putting them off because I was unsure about whether I liked women. I had realized that I had feelings for her as well and we decided to give a relationship a try. We dated for a number of months and due to my inexperiences and past hurts and there effect on our relationship she broke up with me. We remained friends, after a few months we ended up back together because I had made some changes and was able to state for a fact that I loved her. Then while I was trying to make some major life changes I was not communicating like I should have been, she started to not talk about things as well and she broke up with me again. We spent a number of months only emailing rarely, normally we talk every day, if we weren’t together everyday. She then decided she no longer wanted me in her life and broke off contact with me. all the while I was working on the life changes I had started and when she saw thru myspace and youtube that I was doing well after a month of cutting me out of her life she wanted to talk to me. She told me how she made a mistake not communicating with me about our relationship and how much she did love me and want to be with me. I felt the same and we again got back together. We dated for a number of months and things were going great. At which point I had an emotional family situation that through me off track with the weight loss I was working on. She stopped talking to me about everything again and started making assumptions about my feelings based on things that were not true. She was going through a stressful time and decided that I could not handle being in a relationship with her for a couple of reasons, but she was blaming me and not admitting to her own faults which were causing half of our problem. She told me she needed a break from talking to me and she broke up with me again. We did not talk for a few months. Then she called me up out of the blue to talk to me about something random. Following this she told me that she was no longer in love with me and was sure of this because she spoke to me, she then implied that she was drawn to me only out of a need to help me, which I know was not true. She is not the kind of person that does not know her own feelings. She offered me the occasional social hang out as a friendship.I had an emotional outburst over what she had done, she then told me she wanted nothing to do with me again and for me to leave her alone. I did this much as it pained me. Then she emailed me asking if I had something of hers ( I know she knew I did not), I also knew I had nothing. I answered her emails politely at which point she said nevermind she found what she was looking for. I took that to mean we were done communicating, told her thanks for letting me know and left it at that. Now 4 months after having told me she wants nothing to do with me, she emails me to say she’s having some health problems and wants to talk to me about them over the phone. She states that for me to find out about them some other way may leave me feeling more betrayed and sad. So of course I’m curious, as I have no idea what could leave me feeling more like that then I already did.Then she says she would like to be social friends with me but that her love for me no longer exsits and that it will never exsist again because she has let it go. However I believe she is saying that from a place of stress over her own situations. I feel that if she comes to a better place in her life and sees me doing the same that she will either fall in love with me again or realize she still is. I have many past occurances and reasons why I believe this and don’t think it to be a fancy on my part. However I need to think about what’s best for me as well. I think that I can handle being friends because I love her and want her in my life even if it’s just friends, I realize it may never be anything more. I however don’t think I could be ok with myself if I didn’t take the chance on being friends and past the oppurtunity by. If I’m to have any hope of being with her again I would need to be in her life. I think she is in denial over this,(it’s happened before) where she saids one things because she feels it best at the time, only to admit her feelings later because things have improved. I guess my question is that if you really and truly love someone on many levels would you not fight to be with them? Would you just throw everything out or would to fight for what you know you could have? Which is worst, not trying and regretting it? Or trying and getting hurt again? Keep in mind that if she were to jerk me around again I would never give it another chance. also, she says part of her being friends is we never talk about our past but leave it in the past. However, I am the one that has not brought it up, not said my peace, not emailed her back about it, and she has been the one to keep bringing it up if only to say she is over it. I guess I feel if you have to keep telling me that your over it when it seems I already believed you, why would you need to keep telling me. Unless your really not over it? I mean if I’ve done nothing and said nothing and seem to believe you and have accepted your choice, why would you need to keep telling me your choice, only to then want me back in your life. It doesn’t all add up the way she is portraying it, and I think I might right than I originally though. I mean if someone no longer loves you and doesn’t want to be with you, then why do they want you in their life. She was so sure before but she still wants me around. Then next question is if she says she only wants to be social friends but starts acting like more or asking for more without saying it’s a relationship should I call her on it? I guess any thoughts or advice would be much needed.
I really need to hear that it’s ok to not see my ex. From him today when arranging to pick up the last of my things, which I preferred to do through his mum: Can I really not see you at all?
I didn’t want this. I never thought we would not be together. I do realise how the relationship was and the mistakes I made and the things I did. I just don’t get how he doesn’t get how it hurts. How seeing him hurts. How knowing he’s with someone else hurts. It’s easier to be happy for him from a distance. It’s easier not to see the rejector. Is it childish of me to prefer to pick up the rest of his stuff from someone who loves me, rather than him?
No it’s not childish. It’s called taking care of you and that’s all we care about. Not whether or not it seems [fill in the blank...childish, stupid, immature etc] to someone else. You don’t HAVE to be happy for him. You don’t have to be anything for him. You just have to take care of you.
Forget about what he doesn’t get or doesn’t understand. It doesn’t matter. All that matters is taking care of you and that’s it.
Please bear with me, this is long but it’s necessary to explain past things to get the whole picture.
My current ex has been my best friend for 10 yrs. We’ve been in each others lives since we were 16-17, have gone through some major stuff together, and been there for each other when things got shitty.
For instance, my first major relationship was during high school with this other guy who cheated on me and emotionally abused me.
My current ex was there for me through it all as a best friend would be, listening, offering advice, consoling, etc. He had developed a crush on me back then, but got nowhere because I was too hung up on the cheating guy. I was aware of his feelings, but told him we couldn’t be together because I didn’t feel that way about him. Also, I was going off to college in the fall.
He sort of got over me, but really always retained special feelings toward me.
We attended different universities, but still chatted, saw each other at Christmas break/summer vacation and remained really close. I was dating this other guy in college, and after 2yrs that relationship ended badly. He left me for his ex, and I had to go the rest of the year avoiding them in school, it was awful. My current ex helped through that too, he even offered to get on the plane and fly to where I was to be with me for moral support. He really would have, but I told him not too because the plane fare was very expensive. Anyways, we talked everyday on the phone and it helped me a lot. At that time, he was dating this girl for a year, but their relationship went sour after he found out she cheated on him. So I was there for him, and helped him out.
Spring of ’06 we were both home and I just had this feeling something would go down, the timing seemed right. And sure enough, we got together except it was more like friends with benefits. Not good…because I was the bad guy, stringing him along while I tried to figure out my feelings. To be fair, I didn’t go out with him because I wasn’t over the previous ex, and I had one more year of school. I left in the fall, leaving things at a stand still. I told him not to wait, but he did…the whole year he waited for me.
I finished school, came home and we picked up right where we left off, and I gave in deciding if things could happen this naturally then why not give it a try?
Except I let this hang up get me down- I had been used to lustful, intense, passionate relationships with previous ex’s. Now I was dating my best friend who I had known forever, and had never felt that way about. I had to try and accept that this was a different relationship, and that not having those intense feelings wasn’t necessarily bad. It was hard though, I had doubts…stupidly I voiced these to him, which made him feel nervous that I would break up with him. So our relationship over the following year was a bit shaky. I told him I wouldn’t break up with him, because I loved being with him. It was true, no matter what insecurity I felt I knew deep down that our relationship was honest and worth fighting for, I knew my feelings would grow over time. I did grow to love him in the “boyfriend” sense, but sadly too little to late.
This past fall I was feeling very on edge because I had spent the year trying to figure out what the hell to do with my life. Meanwhile my current ex had gotten this nice stable job, found a new apartment, and seemed to be getting his life on track. I was lagging, and he felt he was distracting me from taking control of my life. I denied this, but on reflection I allowed myself to settle which was getting me no where. Thank god I some sense and applied to grad school. I did that during November, when I was away for a month (away from him). We chatted online during that time, but would end up fighting or arguing. I was miserable for the entire month. He tried to be supportive, but I shot it down because I was going through some major self loathing. Stupidly, I said some hurtful things which he took to heart. It got smoothed over, and I was coming home soon so I figured we’d just get past it. I was wrong.
I got back around Christmas, and he told me he wanted to take a break. He said he was over stressed from work, and needed time to sort things out and get his life in order. I didn’t quite buy that, but he assured me it wasn’t “me” or “us” (bull shit).
For the next three and half months we barely talked, he shut me out completely. (He’d done that in the past with other stuff, where he just shuts down- ignores the bad until it passes). Except in the past I had been there to help him during those times, so this time around I was a mess over what to do. I tried to give him space, and I did…except everyday for me was miserable. I was unemployed, had no other friends around. I spent everyday thinking about him and missing him. I lost a lot of weight during that time, and became depressed.
He apologized all the time, telling me he still loved me but was stressed out and needed time to sort things out. During this break I truly realized how much I really did, (do) love him and became terrified at the thought of losing him just when I finally had this realization. ALSO, it didn’t help that we had talked about living together, getting married someday, and believing we’re really meant for each other. All that can really fuck up your head in the aftermath.
March rolled around, and we attempted to get back together to work things out. But something had changed, and we couldn’t get back on track. That’s when all the shit went down. I found out about this other girl who really liked him and sought him out, but he swore nothing ever happened between them. It shook me to the core, because I hated putting him the “cheating guy” category, considering everything we’d been through, and our past experiences with cheaters. He really isn’t that type of guy, he’s been honest and sincere since day one, but I let my insecurities get in the way. Bottom line, if something had happened between them I’m sure he would have told me. AND if he really wanted to have been with her, he would have and not tried to get back with me.
But that wasn’t good enough; I just couldn’t shake this bad feeling. I got all paranoid, and did some really stupid things like check his phone for messages. One time I went to his apartment (when she was there) and over heard them talking. Of course I overreacted to nothing which caused him great anxiety, further put an intense amount of strain on us. A month went by, and he was pulling away. He later admitted to feeling a lot of pressure, and felt he couldn’t commit to the relationship.
We ended it mutually both agreeing that if we kept on this way we could jeopardize the friendship. He also swore he wouldn’t shut me out again, admitting he had made a mistake in doing that. We both admitted to still loving each other and wanting/hoping to be together again down the road. It was all too ideal…even as we were breaking up; he told me over and over that he loved me (we even made out) not your usual breakup. It was weird. For a week we didn’t’ talk and I was content. THEN it all hit me, I was like WTF!!!!? If we love each other why can’t we work it out?
We talked and met again, and had the “real” breakup with tears and sobbing. We decided not to see/ talk to each other for awhile. But I keep slipping because I miss him so much. Interaction with him is like breathing, it just comes naturally, it’s what I do.
Thankfully I have family and new friends to distract me. But I really feel this insane sense of loss and emptiness. A void that I know is going to take a really long time to heal. I think about him so much its intolerable. Even when I sleep I dream about him, I can’t shut him out. I constantly have to distract myself and keep busy, but when there’s a lull or quiet that’s when I revert back to thinking about him.
I’m going away for grad school in the fall, so thankfully I have something to look forward too…but I know me, and I just know I won’t get over him. I really believe we are meant for each other, and he’s admitted this too. So maybe we just need this time apart to reevaluate things. That’s probably wishful thinking. I just don’t see how I can really walk away from this? It’s been years in the making, then it finally happens and poof it’s gone! I’m devastated, and feel guilty for fucking up and being so crazy. I’m sad all the time, because I wonder how the hell we can ever be friends again after all this?
If you’ve read all this I really appreciate it, any advice is most welcome. Thank you.
lizzy,
The friendship/relationship the two of you have had sounds like a dysfunctional mess. You each seem to have issues with abandonment and cheating and that’s not the stuff that good relationships are made of. Comforting for awhile, maybe, but as long as that stuff is unresolved, it’s a ticking time bomb in a new relationship–even with a long-time friend. I’m sure that’s not what you want to hear, but there it is. You both have a lot of issues to work out separate and apart from each other. Take some time to be on your own and learn how to have a really good relationship with yourself before trying to get together with him or anyone else. He’s not wanting to be in a relationship with you right now for whatever reason (that’s about him, not you), and if you were to push for it, it would be a sign of 1) a lack of self-respect, 2) a lack of respect for him. Read the “reject the rejector” post and pull yourself together. When the intense emotions of this breakup have passed, and they will, I think you will look back and be thankful that you stepped out of the dance with this person and focused on you. If something (healthy) is meant to be between the two of you, it can’t happen until you each figure your stuff out. You only have power over your own change. He may or may not figure his stuff out. You have to let go of that outcome–it’s his process, his life, his stuff to deal with. As Susan often says, you are your own full time job. If you haven’t yet, please order her book and work through the steps. It will change your life. While you’re waiting for it to arrive, read here about no contact and other breakup topics. You can use the search box (top right) to find helpful posts on all kinds of breakup topics. You are not alone.
Kathy,
Thank you, I am utilizing the site. Thank god for it, because its one of the first ones I’ve come across that has actually been helpful. Also, I agree about the dysfunctional mess…its been a roller coaster with him to say the least. And I do have issues I need to work out. My goal now is to better myself before I take on another relationship. Thank you for reading my very long entry, I appreciate it.
Just a reply to Lisaleesa a few posts above, as it’s something that drives me nuts as well – what will he/she/theworld/everyone THINK, are they RIGHT? Who knows, maybe I am insane for protecting myself, maybe it’s okay to treat me like nothing? I know the answers as far as guys now, just still sorting through the wreckage of my family about this stuff. But for the record Lisaleesa – it’s FINE, as Susan replied above. The ‘don’t know, don’t care’ approach works beautifully in this situation. Here’s a few ways how:
1. what will everyone think? That I can’t get over him so I can’t even stay friends? DON’T KNOW DON’T CARE
2. What will he think? That he was so important to me that I can’t possibly maintain a friendship? DON’T KNOW DON’T CARE.
3. What will friends think? That unlike them I am not choosing to keep a string of exes for in between relationships to do things with, I seem just too sensitive don’t I? DON’T KNOW DON’T CARE.
The beauty of this way of thinking is that it creates a comfort zone where we are safe to rest and heal, DESPITE WHAT EVERYONE ELSE THINKS. Ahh that’s better … switch off the opinions of everyone else and just come home to ourselves. Anyone voices a useless opinion that sets you back? Make it clear it is not up for debate – it’s your life. Repeat as necessary.
TangoLola
Hi Tangola,
That’s a GREAT ANSWER – it really hits home!…Recently my friends at home have been asking me to come out for drinks etc. when I go home at the weekends from college but I’ve refused lately because I do not want to meet my ex out (he is from my hometown unfortunately..sucks)…I don’t care if they think/he thinks/his friends/acquaintances think I am avoiding going out at home in case I meet him….just this Saturday gone by my friend went out and met my exes sisters boyfriend and straight away he was asking her for information – how was I?..what happened?…even asked straight out was I seeing someone else???…THAT IS WHY I AVOID IT…thankfully my friend brushed him off and saying that her and I live in different towns for university and that’s she’s not my keeper…….If I had been out this would have upset me – this prying for information – I have learned that situations like that are not good for me at the moment so I stay away…I am taking care of myself..full stop.
I can go out for drinks at university with friends there without having to look over my shoulder etc and actually enjoy myself….And I can meet my friends at home for coffee/shopping/lunch – it does not have to be for drinks – that way I do not have to but myself in uncomfortable situations!